Ahan Hanantya is a real crook

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I recently received a foreign order for a custom knife from Ahan Hanantya, [email protected]. Billing address, shipping address, cardholder info all matched, CVV number was there. No request for a break on shipping, customs declaration or anything else. I checked with my card processing company,twice, who was much less than helpful. Having been scammed once several years back, I knew what flags to look for and they were not there. Even exchanged a couple of emails with the customer about shipping. That was Feb 8, 2012.

Today I get the charge back. It's a fraudulent transaction on a valid card. The card was issued in Toronto, the place the knife got shipped is a Hong Kong address.

Talking with my card processor today, I was told that there are other red flags, none of which were mentioned by the processing company on my 2 calls prior to shipment. If the AVS code in the transaction is anything other than a Y, be very careful. If the shipment is outside the US then the seller is automatically at risk. For those of you who want to know why so many are reluctant to ship outside the US, it's because the seller is always at risk outside CONUS.

I'm as frustrated with my card processor, EPIC, was called Chase/Paymentech as I am with the crook.. The gal this morning told me to ask the questions that I already did. They wouldn't answer them then, why now, other than the chargeback fees they get?

The shipping address is Hong Kong, although it's actually Indonesia. The postal program accepted it as a Hong Kong and printed the address out as valid.

The bottom line is that I'm out the knife and have a $383 charge back.

Never again will I take an order from that part of the world. I figured they couldn't all be crooks. My bad.

I urge all of you to avoid Ahan Sanantya, and anybody with an Indonesia or Hong Kong addy. Also, discuss with your postmaster which method of shipping will show who picked the package up from customs. It appears that the crooks have gotten more sophisticated and less greedy.

Gene
 
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Just surfing through and read this nightmare.....I really am sorry to hear shit like this happening to honest craftsmen. :mad: Same thing happened to me a few years ago. You live and learn. Don't beat yourself up, either. He's the schmuck not you. Better luck in your future sales..
 

ooitzoo

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I am sorry about this.

I was wondering you have a picture and description of the knife that was scammed from you? That way folks can keep an eye for it. Thanks!
 
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I've been able to contest the charge back successfully when confronted with a Nigerian scam artist (but he was located in the US). Any chance of that? Sorry for the loss.
 
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I don't hold out much hope on the charge back, mostly because the CC companies are into making money for them screw us. The only hope I have is that my profile with the processor is mail order, since I do most of my business online. They've taken the funds and mailed me the paperwork. Once I see the paperwork I'll have a better idea.

Here's a link to the knife. [link removed: you must have a "knife maker" membership to link to your business site] I've made two of them like this. The other I gave to a forum member deploying to Afghanistan to "field test." I figured I'd get better feed back from him than most other sources. My logo is on the underside of the tang, since I couldn't figure out how to etch it through the Cerocoat.

Gene
 
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For an overseas transaction couldn't you just set up a dedicated Paypal account and insist on a GIFT ONLY as the payment option. That should put all of the control on your side since I don't think a Gift through Paypal can be contested by the Gifting party. If you have an established track record as an honest business man the person ordering the knife might still go through with the transaction. If they refuse to do it that way then just don't sell them the knife.
Also, when you ship ship, use only USPS Express Mail as the only option and add that shipping cost into the selling price.
It will give you tracking at least until it leaves the USA.
 
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I feel your pain but even with PayPal there are risks. I was scammed 2 years ago by a Nigerian and lost a brand new cmaera ($400.00). I recieved a PayPal page, with transaction id ,the whole 9 yards. Turns out PayPal was hacked or something of that nature and the whole thing was fraudulent. In the meantime, my camera was on it's way merrily to Nigeria. By the time we had realized we were scammed, it had passed through customs and was no longer retrievable by our postal system. I went so far as to attempt contacting Nigerian police! Now, that was a special experience:eek:



For an overseas transaction couldn't you just set up a dedicated Paypal account and insist on a GIFT ONLY as the payment option. That should put all of the control on your side since I don't think a Gift through Paypal can be contested by the Gifting party. If you have an established track record as an honest business man the person ordering the knife might still go through with the transaction. If they refuse to do it that way then just don't sell them the knife.
Also, when you ship ship, use only USPS Express Mail as the only option and add that shipping cost into the selling price.
It will give you tracking at least until it leaves the USA.
 
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Sorry to hear that Gene. I think your creditcard company should take the hit. Id definitely contest the charge back.

Don't let one crook set the standard for everybody in that region. I've sold an expensive Chris Reeve to a Hong Kong member before, and I didn't have a single problem. That being said, I go Paypal with all my deals.
 
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Several years back I had a successful transaction to Hong Kong. In 2003 I took a $1700 hit on a deal to Indonesia.. I learned all the warning signs from that one. I really am ticked at the CC processor. I have to jump through hoops and pay a bunch to make sure that nobody can hack my site and that it's secure, yet they merrily approve things that are wrong. This go around I was told that the authorization only means there is money in the account, nothing more.

Some big sellers are getting added protection of more ID info on the transaction, but that's a service the processors sell. As long as they get their money, they don't care.

I will continue to do overseas transactions, but will keep looking for a better way.

Thanks to all for the support.

Gene
 
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I figured they couldn't all be crooks. My bad.

I urge all of you to avoid Ahan Sanantya, and anybody with an Indonesia or Hong Kong addy.

As a Brit in HK who's about to start selling his knife collection, thanks.

I don't understand how a Hong Kong address is in Indonesia. Is there more info on this?
If you need a pair of feet in HK to help, let me know.
 
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ONLY accept payment from some countries as an international bank transfer to your bank account. When you have the money, then you can ship the goods. Nobody can take money back out of your bank account... accept the IRS. ;-)

Indonesia is notorious for scammers. I will not ship to any address in Indonesia.
 

Esav Benyamin

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We just had a whole posse of Indonesians come to BF to vouch for their poor misunderstood friend. Ended up having to ban them all.
 

Esav Benyamin

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Thanks! Another entire country "need not apply".

I will still deal with people I know from over there. But strangers aren't likely to get a moment's thought.
 
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For an overseas transaction couldn't you just set up a dedicated Paypal account and insist on a GIFT ONLY as the payment option. That should put all of the control on your side since I don't think a Gift through Paypal can be contested by the Gifting party. If you have an established track record as an honest business man the person ordering the knife might still go through with the transaction. If they refuse to do it that way then just don't sell them the knife.
Also, when you ship ship, use only USPS Express Mail as the only option and add that shipping cost into the selling price.
It will give you tracking at least until it leaves the USA.

Using a Paypal account for his business in this way would not only violate their terms of service but also put the buyers in the position that we as a community always tell them not to be in of having no protection on their payment should something go awry. Trying to shield yourself against the one wrong (theft) by committing two others does not strike me as a good faith solution.
 
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They were Malaysians, Esav.

They were.

Interestingly enough.....seems that vwb563 just this mornin' totally vindicated the one fella which he had earlier been quite sure of that he was a scammer.....the one that used no profanity and was trying to be as polite as possible given the attitude and numbers of his detractors. I can understand the confusion all around, but I give vwbb563 kudos for making the apology and can't help but feel some empathy for the one fellow who did his best to convince us of his innocence. Sure, we've all seen it before and the "he who protests too much" thing plays out as per usual 99% of the time, but having read his posts and felt the sincerity in his words, it had to be obvious to others here that the young man had nothing to hide and was being truthful. We all become a bit jaded with age and negative experiences, but we should have risen above with this one until proven otherwise.

I get that his friends comments were fairly confrontive, but likely no more than some that came from this side of the world. That the more angry of the bunch were banned doesn't surprise me, but I can't see where the alleged scammer we know now as a vindicated banned member, ever exhibited any behavior which would warrant his being banned. Perhaps things went on behind the scenes....I don't know. But as vwb563 put the finale word out there as to that fellows veracity, it seems unfortunate that he got lumped in with the others who actually exhibited poor judgement in their responses, but clearly no more so than many other responses contained in that thread.
 
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I have dealt with people in Malaysia and Hong Kong with great success- I have however had one person scam me here in the US....I will still do business overseas as I have some customers over there in several different places but as ever I am cautious and this is one of the reasons why.
 

OldeWolf

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Anyone can scam anyone in any country from any country on this world. Moral of the story? Ban all countries from doing any sales on this forum to solve the scamming issues. Problem solved! :rolleyes:
 
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Hello Gene,

I only came across this forum by searching for this guy. I'm very sorry to hear what has happened to you. I have also received a chargeback today - for an even bigger amount unfortunately. I was very cautious at time of order, however everything 'seemed okay' on payment acceptance side.
This horrible crook ordered from me also using an American card, also to be shipped to Hong Kong. When I'd emailed him regarding shipping, he even had the nerve to thank for the exceptional service etc!!!

Absolutely devastating how this can happen to genuine people and businesses.....
 

Triton

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Hello Gene,

I only came across this forum by searching for this guy. I'm very sorry to hear what has happened to you. I have also received a chargeback today - for an even bigger amount unfortunately. I was very cautious at time of order, however everything 'seemed okay' on payment acceptance side.
This horrible crook ordered from me also using an American card, also to be shipped to Hong Kong. When I'd emailed him regarding shipping, he even had the nerve to thank for the exceptional service etc!!!

Absolutely devastating how this can happen to genuine people and businesses.....

When shipping overseas I request payment via paypal AND I don't ship until not only is the money in paypal but I have requested and deposited the check from paypal. Paypal is NOT linked up to any of my bank accounts either. The only financial linkage they have to me is the paypal account and a credit card. If they want to charge the credit card for a chargeback I'll have the credit card people fighting paypal not just little old me.
 
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