Am I right or am I wrong?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I know you guys have a great thing here. But it is a public place. This is what I do not understand; when someone speaks foolishly, or insultingly, why isn't your condemnation and subsequent treatment of the offender enough by itself? That is responsibility. The truth will out. The truth punishes and rewards.

I don't understand. There are many fine people on both sides of this.

I apologize to any and all if I have contributed to any misery because I've blundered while new to the forum.


munk
 
Thanks, Rob. I'm glad you posted.

The situation we're in is a problem.

I think my philosophy changed when we posted our first request for prayers thread. Maybe I'm crazy but when we did that I felt like we had opened the doors to just about everything and set a new precedent. And now I wish I had not deleted any threads, not a single one. That was a mistake on my part. If this venture into prayer takes us into a flame repository I certainly regret it but I think prayer threads are very important, however, we must be willing to pay the price for them. Tell me if I'm wrong in my thinking about this.

The part about forumites being able to take care of themselves was meant to be a compliment and the farthest thing from an insult.

Thanks again for posting.

As I said, I'm far from perfect and open for suggestions and all the help I can get.

I know I'm the moderator but I don't like to think that I'm a dictator. Along with free speech I also believe in majority rule and a democratic approach to everything, including this forum. If the majority of people think the rules and regulations should be changed let's get it on the table.
 
Uncle Bill,
Stand your ground. Nothing that I've read in the forum or heard from you in our few phone conversaions has been anything but right on the money.
It's true you are the moderator but you are also entitled to your opinion as well. If people disagree that's their right, if they're mad about what they read or hear that's their problem.

Sincerely,
Mike Martin
 
Yvsa, thanks for posting. I really am glad you are still out there.

My statement of what you thought was simplistic and obviously doesn't reflect the full extent of your reasoning. Some of what you told me has evidently been poorly heard on my heart. I meant to say part, but maybe it's a freudian slip.

I hope you are doing better physically, and wish we'd had time to talk more earlier this year. I'm feeling down - and trying to get two ( out of three ) doctors to agree on my meds.

I'm sorry.
 
I haven't read any of this thread since I posted on it last, and now what I'm reading I find very depressing. I'm sorry to hear of Yvsa and MauiRob's bad feelings, since I respect both of them greatly. I do, however, understand their positions (or at least what I've read).

I think the real problem here is different points of view. Uncle Bill, Yvsa, Rusty, MauiRob and others have all been correct from different points of view.

My best suggestion here is that the moderators (Uncle and Rusty) should keep the URL of Bladeforums' Political Area handy. Whenever a thread starts to be problematic, tell them to take it there and give them a link. (I think BF also has a non-moderated, "anything goes" area where inappropriate threads could go as well). This would (hopefully) mean keeping the HI forum more like it used to be, without taking away free speech, just sending it to a more appropriate outlet.

As for trolling, IMO they have to be banned at some point. When that point is, is a judgement call I don't want, though. If Uncle wants to give them plenty of rope to hang themselves with, that's ok with me. **** hung himself with plenty of rope to spare, IMO, and he hasn't been back. If he comes back and starts causing trouble again, send him to the political area (there are plenty of "troll-hunter" types there), and if he still causes trouble here, ban him. That doesn't bother me at all. As for the forumite Swede79 mentioned, he hasn't posted here in months and IIRC is dying of cancer. There's really no reason to bring him up now.
 
Bill,

As someone from another country, can I say that I can understand everyone's point of view. I came here originally for the khukuries, but your words and views are the best export from America. Please don't falter in your philosophy.

For those who do not agree, please accept that no slur or insult is meant. There are probably those out there who think that this is an American forum and others should keep their views to themselves, but Bill's philosophy is that which I respect in Americans and always have - and that is your steadfast belief in individual freedom.

I know Cantina family members like Yvsa disagree with Bill, but I also respect Yvsa and I will read anything he writes. From where I sit, this is sort of like watching two well respected members of a family having a serious spat - and it feels somewhat uncomfortable.
I only hope it resolves itself soon.
 
. If Uncle wants to give them plenty of rope to hang themselves with, that's ok with me. **** hung himself with plenty of rope to spare, IMO, and he hasn't been back. >>>>> Matt H



munk
 
My best suggestion here is that the moderators (Uncle and Rusty) should keep the URL of Bladeforums' Political Area handy. Whenever a thread starts to be problematic, tell them to take it there and give them a link. (I think BF also has a non-moderated, "anything goes" area where inappropriate threads could go as well). This would (hopefully) mean keeping the HI forum more like it used to be, without taking away free speech, just sending it to a more appropriate outlet.
Click to expand...

yep. I agree.

I also agree with banning trolls.
 
I also agree with banning trolls." MauiRob

And that is exactly what you did by confronting him. That is what healthy families and healthy societies do. It was the Buddhist path. The Truth will Out. The larger society around us does not do this, it is not healthy. It needs policeman and still fails.

There was no failure here.

munk
 
Thanks for more input and understanding.

I'm still not sure what a troll is but I think their motivation plays a big role in defining them. That makes it a judgment call.

If a guy comes on and says, "I hate America and I hate all Americans and wish you'd all die and your country would go up in flames," this is a post I would almost certainly leave up. The more vile and pointed the more I'm inclined to let the guy have his say. As I mentioned if a guy puts up something nonsensical just for the sake of argument I would sometimes delete it because I thought it was pointless and the only thing it would do is cause problems with no real point to demonstrate. This was probably a mistake on my part.

A couple of the wise have mentioned the rope and hanging, another that the truth will out, and this is, of course, what I count on and counted on.

My great regret about all of this is I have offended some I hold dear. If there were only some way they could get inside my heart, head and soul I think they might not feel so offended but, sadly, that is impossible.
 
Actually Munk the larger society absolutely does ban people.

If you go into a public library and do no more than talk loudly, and continue to do so when asked to stop you will be banned (and maybe arrested). If you cause trouble in a bar repeatedly you will be banned. You mention families, but if you cause trouble in someone's private home often enough you can bet your butt you will be banned. Often when a son or daughter becomes a drug addict and steals from and abuses family members enough they are asked to leave. Sometimes for good, sometimes just until their behavior improves. But it is done.

If you violate the rules and laws of society at large you will be effectively banned from society for a period of time in a prison.

The purpose of all of these "bans" is to allow the smooth functioning of institutions and commerce. Individuals with malicious intent should not be allowed to disrupt and destroy institutions, gatherings, and even internet forums, while at the same time enjoying the protection of those same groups.

Going into a bar and screaming in peoples faces everytime they try and express themselves, and attacking everything they say, is a disruptive activitity that interferes with the patrons enjoyment, and also interferes with the bar's ability to make money. Not at all unlike what trolls do on a forum like this. When all of us are pissed off and arguing endlessly about things like this (all because of a troll) we aren't talking about, and buying khuks like we would normally be, and we are not enjoying ourselves like we have a right to.

Free speech in its pure form applies to public spaces free from affiliation to a business or private group. That's why you cannot claim that your first ammendment rights were violated if you are not allowed to speak your mind at a board meeting of a private company, while you absolutely could say that if it were a government function.
The private company has a right to regulate speech and actions by its members in order to protect itself.

Likewise Uncle Bill has the power and the right to ban or not to ban anyone he chooses.

All I'm doing is expressing my opinion. If that opinion were to be viewed as objectionable and offensive to Uncle Bill and he saw fit to delete it, warn me, and then ban me if I did not stop disrupting things here then that would be absolutely within his rights as moderator of a private forum.
 
Thanks, Rob.

Do I really have the power to ban people? I honestly don't know and have never bothered to check.
 
FWIW - Individuals who don't want to bother reading
another individuals posts always have the option
to add to their own IGNORE list.

I've not seen that option mentioned.
 
I still think Matt H and Maui Rob have the best solution: Have a separate Forum for political/religious/etc views or things that have nothing to do with Khuks. Like that, every member of the family will have a chance to express his/her views while ALL will have a chance to decide from the start, if they want to be draggued into a discussion that they do not wish to be involved with in the first place.

As I stated in another thread:

"When I go to the Forum, I review every new thread looking for interesting info about Khuks. More than often the title says very little about the content and I have no choice but to read it to see what's it is all about. . When anyone has a result shove down my throat his/her one-sided, armchair political quartebacking views, I am p....off. How would you like it if I came to your living room and start a fight!

I went one step further in another posting and suggested that:"for those of us who are not interested in politics, could we then agree that "politically motivated threads" should be clearly identify so that we do not have to waste time reading them. May be using a specific smillies in the post subject before the title would be the answer. I suggest :eek: "

I believe that by organizing the forum this way [and I don't think this is censorship], we will satisfy every one and still protect Free Speech.
 
Sorry to drag this to the top again, but I wanted to respond to Pierre's ideas. IMO this is an excellent compromise between banning trolls and deleting threads. If they thread could be moved to where it belongs by Uncle Bill or Rusty that would solve the problem.

UNLESS the problem is someone coming into any type of thread (normal khuk related, which would be the norm) and just plain trolling it. I can't think of any solution for that except warning the individual and then banning them. If anyone has another idea BESIDES harassing them until they go away I'd like to hear it. The reason I'm not a fan of harassing trolls until they go away is this--they win! This is what they want. They want us to fight and argue and get angry with each other over them so they can feel important. We shouldn't have to do this. When Yvsa and I and others tried to do this we all go flak from other forumites for doing so (and support from some I should add). Again the troll wins when we do this.

Uncle Bill I for one hope you consider this option as I believe it is a very good way to keep the HI forum from turning into a flame prone, troll ridden, political forum:barf:
 
It's a good idea. I get out of this forum so seldom I miss and also forget options. And, I think I suffer from the Jane Fonda syndrome. The more controversial, even obnoxious, a post is the more I feel obligated to leave it alone.

Thanks again all for good help and understanding. I try to do what I think is right and this is very subjective and I'm not perfect so I can always use all the help I can get.
 
Pierre,
There is a place!Go to Community, hit Political & THEY CAN STAY THERE!!!I 'm being NICE,Yvsa,Blues,Wal,Maui Rog & others are friends,I respect them BUT they are more understanding than I! Just say regarding this issue,I'm set in my ways & beliefs & will not ,nor do I care to change!!
jim
 
I can see that the regulars at the cantina need no assertiveness training. You folks are okay.

Keith
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top