Anciet Weapons of the Caucasian Race

[Uath]

It's an exciting concept in reguards to the origen of race. What if there were two original groups of hominids, the Neanderthal to the north, and Homo Erectus to the south. All of the modern races are a blend of these two. The darker they are, the more they are Homo Erectus, the more "European" they are, the more Neanderthal. In other words, a Scandanavian would have a lot of Neanderthal genes, a Ugandan would have very little.

It isn't so far-fetched. Here are some reconstructions of Neanderthals, using modern DNA typing:

Do they look different than you imagined. Neanderthal had very large brains. They buried their dead with flowers and food and created beautiful art. All over 100.000 years before Cro Magnon.

If "White" people want to get in touch with their DNA roots, maybe they need to look there.

Back to weapons, look closely at the Neandeerthals in this actual cave art:

We see that they are wearing clothing and holding a variety of spear-like weapons.

 

[liamstrain]

While it is an interesting thought, I do not think it is supported by the evidence we have thus far.

 

[TennToadsticker]

Might I suggest including the Scythians in this discussion? They dominated the western and central Eurasian steppes during the Iron Age and were amazing warrior/metalsmiths.

 

[SeaxyBeast]

Neanderthal mDNA information @ the Smithsonian Institute

The Neanderthal mtDNA sequences were substantially different from modern human mtDNA (Krings et al. 1997, 1999). Researchers compared the Neanderthal to modern human and chimpanzee sequences. Most human sequences differ from each other by on average 8.0 substitutions, while the human and chimpanzee sequences differ by about 55.0 substitutions. The Neanderthal and modern human sequences differed by approximately 27.2 substitutions. Using this mtDNA information, the last common ancestor of Neanderthals and modern humans dates to approximately 550,000 to 690,000 years ago, which is about four times older than the modern human mtDNA pool. This is consistent with the idea that Neanderthals did not contribute substantially to modern human genome.

 

[Uath]

We know that Neanderthals and Cro Magnon lived at the same time. We also know they interbred. Also, we know that "White" people originated from the same places Neanderthal lived.

I also thought about the Scythians, great point.

In my rush to define the "Four types of Weapons," I also completely left out bows, arrows, and slings. That's what you get. I'm off to research more about Neanderthals...

 

[stelug]

It seems to me to remembre that the very first weapon found in the lithic graves where not swords, knives or spears but the "amigdala". This was not an axe neither a poignard but but was spread over alla mediterranean area. Some antrpologists like Lake where inclined to think taht it could be a sort business cart, something created just to swod the skill of the craftman, but cause of the shape, (similar to a big almond)the amigdala could also be held in hands to chop and hit.
BTW romans and etrurians where not very close, excepts for habitat. An else if Rome have had and etrurian king in the earlier time in a few generation the whole etrurian civilization had been letterally eradicated by the romans at the point that it has been easear for the archelogists re-bring to life the egyptian history and language than the traces of etrurians. Then Rome started conquering the whole know world, but never more erasing the history of the newer citizend of the emperor , as dane with the etrurian.

 

[Coad]

Ok uath, whats your take on the Irish origion theorys. Tribe of dan, firblogs, spainish princes. Race of giants. Just curios. Ive run into these things while reading about the history of the " western world"

 

[SeaxyBeast]

We know that Neanderthals and Cro Magnon lived at the same time. We also know they interbred. Also, we know that "White" people originated from the same places Neanderthal lived.

The evidence I cited from the mDNA genome above suggests that all of the modern human genetic populations regardless of race are more than 3 times more closely related on a genetic level than any of them are to Neanderthals.

Go. Look. Understand.

You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with geneticists and genetic history.

 

[Uath]

Ancient stories get distorted by oral re-telling. I've read the Ulster Cycles, Cuthulain comes across as a very human figure. Besides, were talking about the Iron Age Celts of 500 BC. Cro Magnaon appeared Aprox 50,000 BC. Obviously Neanderthal and Homo Erectus would have had to have a common anscestor, otherwise they couldn't interbreed either.

As far as modern human DNA, Chimpanzee DNA, and Neanderthal DNA; humans and chimpanzees can't interbreed. Obviously Humans and Neanderthals could and did. Evidence of which is the fact that most of us have measurable Neanderthal DNA.

Look at the reconstructed Neanderthals I posted. Human, right?? Chimpanzees don't paint pictures and bury their dead with flowers. Neanderthals were just the same as us. Physiologiocal differences are exaggerated. They were built a BIT differently. You're looking at slightly larger bones and slightly different builds. They actually had LARGER brains than we do. What if THEY are US, now?

One must be careful of the Smithsonian. They have a history of Political Correctness at the expense of objective enquiry. Remember how they characterized the Bombing of Hiroshima as genicide and displayed the Enola Gay in such a light? I happen to know the US Govt. has had to spank the Smithsonian several times for making incredibly revisionist historical pronouncements. To look to them for objective observation reguarding the subject of race is unwise.

Can you imagine if it were proven that what makes white people white is Neanderthal DNA? That would imply that all the other races are just determined by how much Neanderthal they have in them as opposed to Homo Erectus. How much chocolate is in the milk?
In such a case, there might be a "Pure" Caucasian (100% Neanderthal) and a "Pure Negroid (100% Homo Erectus). They would be different species, in the same way that wolves and coyotes are different species, yet they can interbreed.
I don't think the Scientific community will support that one, even if it's true.

This 32,000 year old statue could be a Neanderthal Diety:

Carved in ivory, with a flint knife

A 35,000 year-old "Venus"

These are actual Neaanderthal hands, look pretty modern to me.

Neanderthals had a huge variety of tools and weapons:

A reconstruction of how Neanderthal weapons looked:

 

[stabman]

Can you imagine if it were proven that what makes white people white is Neanderthal DNA? That would imply that all the other races are just determined by how much Neanderthal they have in them as opposed to Homo Erectus. How much chocolate is in the milk?
In such a case, there might be a "Pure" Caucasian (100% Neanderthal) and a "Pure Negroid (100% Homo Erectus). They would be different species, in the same way that wolves and coyotes are different species, yet they can interbreed.

Seriously dude, what the hell?
What...the...hell.

 

[Uath]

To boil it down we are ALL hybrids. Race may not be a factor of melanin reaction to sunlight. Rather race may be the residual blend of two different species of hominid, Neanderthal and Homo Erectus. There are only two races.

BUT we are ALL Hybrids of the two. The Neanderthals all but dissapeared 50,000 years ago. I don't think Cro Magnon Man competed with Neanderthals. I think Cro Magnon Man is a decendant hybrid of Neanderthal and Homo Erectus.
Whatever, it worked. Cro Magnon Man quickly developed agriculture and started down the long road to computers.

 

[SeaxyBeast]

One must be careful of the Smithsonian. They have a history of Political Correctness at the expense of objective enquiry. Remember how they characterized the Bombing of Hiroshima as genicide and displayed the Enola Gay in such a light? I happen to know the US Govt. has had to spank the Smithsonian several times for making incredibly revisionist historical pronouncements. To look to them for objective observation reguarding the subject of race is unwise.

Irrelevant because the conclusions in that study do not come from the Smithsonian Institute. They come from the publications cited on the page and from professors at well respected European universities. Go do a search of Neanderthal DNA genome research on scholar.google.com and you will find dozens of publications that back the evidence spread across a wide range of well respected, peer reviewed scientific journals. All Smithsonian did on that page was gather a few of the more influential studies and summarize them. I linked to that page rather than the primary research because a.) the Smithsonian page aims at a more general readership than the journals and stripped out the technical language and b.) most of the primary literature requires university access.

Like I said, though, you are not arguing with me and now I will have to add that you are not arguing with the Smithsonian Institute either. You are arguing with the majority of researchers who are looking at the Neanderthal genetic sequence. Any rudimentary review of the literature would show you that. I suggest you do one.

 

[leifjl]

sooo..... what does any of this have to do with ancient weapons exactly?

 

[Uath]

Let's see what a world would look like in the Dual Race Theory. Remember, we have the Neanderthals in the north, let's call them "White." Now, we have Homo Erectus in the South, "Black." These two are separate species in a sense, but they already have a common anscestor. Remember, ALL mammals came from a single species. Think of them as Wolves and Coyotes, they are separate species in a way, but they can interbreed.

Now, modern human race becomes a graduated color chart. Let's number it 1 - 100, with 1 being pure Homo Erectus, and 100 being pure Neanderthal. Remember, 1 and 100 DON'T EXIST, they only represent an ultimate. ALL humans are hybrid between the two. There are no pure example of either species left.
In this scenario, people of sub-sahara Africa would fall in the low range, Icelandic Nordics would fall toward the top. Not just by skin tone, but by all of the little subcontexts that human's instinctively know.

Wouldn't such a theory kind of explain things better? Remember also, we're all individuals. I'm sure the Neanderthals were very different one from the other.

 

[Magnaminous_G]

Negroid culture... time to slowly back away from this thread...

 

[leifjl]

wow. this is like a train wreck in slow motion. i have to keep watching to see who gets maimed.

 

[Unistat76]

Technically, there is no "White," "Black," or any other race. The various skin colors and facial features of different human beings don't even make us as diverse as dalmatians and dachshunds.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

So... You know how that other thread got locked for having nothing to do blades?

You should learn from that. Just saying.

 

[Uath]

Well, it STARTED with blades. Come on, we got off the subject for a second.

Someone mentions Scythians, Here are some Scythian bronze weapons. One can see that they vary slightly from the Celtic and Caucasus blades.

Here's a Scythian blade that more closely resembles the Caucasus type:

By the way, Here's a careful reconstruction of a Homo Erectus:

Here's a careful reconstruction of a Neanderthal:

Do you see my point?

 

[BePrepared]

Fail thread is fail

That is all