Recommendation? Anvil Stand (wooden) - Poll

[J. Keeton]

I'm ready to build an appropriate, legitimate anvil stand (mount) for my grandfather's anvil.

Grandfather's 105# anvil (got some cleanup/restoration to do on it as well!)


I'd like the community's opinion on the optimal wooden stand design that is fairly cheap and easy to construct. Below are the designs that I'm currently contemplating. Any experiences with these designs or opinions will be greatly appreciated.

Note that I will be putting casters on the side so that I can move the assembly like a wheelbarrow. I will also be doing most of my forging on concrete.

Which one wins!?!?

Option A:


Option B:


Option C:


Option D:



Thanks for any and all input!
JK

 

[Lieblad]

Take your pick. Any one of those designs is plenty adequate. But, Due to void space and side compressing woodgrain, I dont really care for cribbed up 2x4s.
Do whatever suits your budget and carpentry abilities...
Fwiw, my anvilstumps are sections of gluelam beams standing on end.
Happened to salvage at a demolition site.

Btw, thats a cool anvil. It was fairly old even when your grandfather was young.

 

[Brian Ayres]

B and D both have the most mass. It will be easier to keep B tight when building. D is too wide though if you build D, take a row off. You want to be able to get close to the anvil for forging on the offside.
Green lumber will shrink.
You could also put a couple pieces of angle iron on the base of any stand with a hole or two so you can fasten it via a drop in anchor to the concrete. 105# and a light stand will bounce. The heavier the better.

 

[12345678910]

B and D both have the most mass. It will be easier to keep B tight when building. D is too wide though if you build D, take a row off. You want to be able to get close to the anvil for forging on the offside.
Green lumber will shrink.
You could also put a couple pieces of angle iron on the base of any stand with a hole or two so you can fasten it via a drop in anchor to the concrete. 105# and a light stand will bounce. The heavier the better.

I like the metal tripod style
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/31/80/48/318048b7ab515dd47f4d5a8d26271edf.jpg

 

[kuraki]

I like my sand in a drum.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

For the maximum mass, go with B ( or D).

Screw and glue up "B" and it will be rock solid.

 

[knoxknives]

I used 4x4 pressure treated posts for mine, glued and screwed. unfortunately I didn't think about the pressure treated lumber drying and shrinking, and now I have gaps. so don't use pressure treated imo, just untreated if you go that route.

 

[A.McPherson]

I’m planning on making one out of thick walled steel pipe filled with sand and bolted to the concrete pad...
the less it moves the better right?

 

[KnuckleDownKnives]

I used 4x4 pressure treated posts for mine, glued and screwed. unfortunately I didn't think about the pressure treated lumber drying and shrinking, and now I have gaps. so don't use pressure treated imo, just untreated if you go that route.

Also not really good if it burns from hot slag and smokes at all. The smoke contains some pretty nasty chemicals you don't want to breath.

 

[i4Marc]

I have tried a few different ways. I like D the best but I use 6X6's. Just as important as stand construction is how you mount the anvil. Everybody has their own method. I use semi circular inserts made from 2X4's shaped to each individual cove on each side of the anvil. This keeps the anvil from moving side to side or front to back. Then I clamp the anvil down at the front and back which keeps it from hopping. In this way I have virtually eliminated all ringing from the anvil and there is no movement at all when working.

 

[J. Keeton]

Wow! Thanks everyone for the excellent feedback.

My plan will be to attempt Option B and utilize the inserts suggested by i4Marc!

Thanks again for the input! I'll post up a pic when I'm done with it.

 

[javand]

I'm gonna be the voice of dissent here. None of these are appropriate, if you want to have remotely efficient forging with an anvil that size.

With a much larger anvil (250-400lbs) that is really necessary for knifemaking, you can overcome the lack of an appropriate stand with the anvil mass, but with a 100lb anvil, which *IS* appropriately sized for most knife work, it's important, to have it mounted correctly.

What is correct? It needs to be an immovable object. If you can push, wobble, beat it around, it's wrong, sorry. Stumps or wood stacks set on top of the ground were *never* used by real smiths. If it was a "stump", you could bet it was burried 4' deep below ground, over what showed above.


You're gonna see real quick, with any of those options, your anvil bouncing around when you forge. This will add massive amounts of work required to move the steel the same amount as it would when properly secured (anything should be bolted down if it's not cemented in to be truly optimal, including the anvil being secured to the stand).

If you MUST have an option that can be moved, I highly recommend fabricating, or having fabricated a tri-pod stand with steel plate, and tubing, as heavy as you feel you can move. However, it would be really beneficial to have it bolted to down to the slab, and have the tubing legs filled with sand and oil. This aids in vibration and sound dampening.



I also, greatly prefer the tri-pod stand to any other type, because it allows you get over the anvil in the correct stance, in a way that no solid stand, that takes up more footprint than the anvil will allow. This adds to forging efficiency and proper technique, but also, really aids in reducing fatigue and back pain over time.


A properly secured, 100lb anvil (that doesn't move, shake, or vibrate visibly, when struck with a heavy blow) will out work a 400lb anvil on a shaky base, any day of the week. Anybody that's ever worked on one, knows this is true, but many will likely disagree, because they don't want to believe it, when they've never experienced it.


99% of all the shops I've been in, have poorly mounted anvils, that bounce all over the place, with smiths that either dream, or already have a power hammer, because they got tired of fighting the steel. I have 3 power hammers at the moment, but I still forge my blades by hand, and can do it nearly as fast, and with more precision, by hand, on a properly mounted anvil, than I can with the hammers, but you couldn't pay me enough to forge a blade by hand on an anvil sitting on a stump, that's not bolted to the floor.



My 2c, though I'm sure it's not what you wanted to hear.

If it absolutely has to be one of your initial options, yes, option B is the best.

 

[Mahoney]

If anyone is thinking of going with option D, strapping the timbers together is not sufficient. Long through bolts or big lag screws are needed to hold the timbers together. I needed a big chopping block for some axe wood carving years ago and I had a bunch of 4X4 scrap... I strapped them together as tightly as I could, but the timbers could still slide just enough that the block would tip when struck by a blow at an angle

 

[J. Keeton]

I'm gonna be the voice of dissent here. None of these are appropriate, if you want to have remotely efficient forging with an anvil that size.

...

My 2c, though I'm sure it's not what you wanted to hear.

If it absolutely has to be one of your initial options, yes, option B is the best.

I appreciate this feedback. I've already bought and cut the wood for option B, so I think I will give it a go. I do have some metal fabrication talent so eventually your tripod suggestion could be an option for me. What do you think about taking some 1/2 thick 2x2 or 3x3 angle and fashioning brackets as feet so that (option B) can be bolted to a slab?




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Would yall advise staining and finishing the base with a coat of polyurethane once complete?

Any suggestions on finishing the wood?

Thanks,
JK

 

[Will52100]

What Javand said. I did use something like option C, except the 2/4's were tight together with no spaces and it worked well as a base for a Russian cast steel anvil that I'd cut the horn off for a blacksmith anvil. The base worked a lot better than a stump, but when I was using it on a concrete floor it tended to "walk" When I finally stepped up to a real anvil I made it from 20" heavy wall pipe with a 1/2" top plate and 1/2"x4" cross bracing in the middle and filled with concrete and buried about 6" deep in the floor. Without the anvil, if I figured the weights correctly, it weights a little over 600 pounds and sitting on a bed of sand there is zero wiggle. This is for a 330 pound anvil, for a smaller one I'd scale down but follow the same idea. Because the anvil has an upsetting block I placed it slightly off center and eventually added a swing out shelf to set tools and hammers and punches and such on and it can easily be swung out of the way or lifted off and set aside.

I also have a 275 pound hornless that I do the majority of blade work on and use a steel box constructed from 3/8" thick angle iron and 1/4" sheet metal with a 3/4" top, internal bracing and filled with concrete, also buried about 5" deep. I went with this style to be able to work right up next to the anvil without the base getting in my way.

If I didn't have access to steel and welding machines I'd likely go with option A, but filled with reinforcement and concrete to add mass. Might make it a bit harder to move, but with a little engineering to put casters on one end and handles on the other it wouldn't be that bad.

The more secure you can make it, the better. The more wiggle, or "walk", it has, the more energy your wasting. I'd use the angle iron and bolt that sucker to the slab for sure.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I think for knife work a properly screwed and glued wooden base is fine. People underestimate the weight of a base.
a 16X16X24 base of 4X4 pressure treated lumber weighs 140#. A 12X24X24 base 2X12 kiln dried white pine weighs 100#.
A 24" X16" white oak log weighs 185#

Chocks and chains properly placed and tensioned will keep things in place. Metal straps across the feet and lag screwed into the base securely also will hold the anvil snug.

Maybe it is just me, but I have the opposite opinion of a farriers tripod base. I picked up one at a blacksmith tailgate event with a 75# farriers anvil on it. It had retainer clamps to hold the anvil tight to the base. I found it seemed to be more bouncy than a solid wooden base. I gave it away.

 

[J. Keeton]

Started by getting the rust off the anvil this morning. Looks like it's an Isaac Nash & Sons anvil manufactured in 1917. From what I can tell Isaac Nash started his business in 1842. The company later went on to purchase Peter Wright & Sons.

"Isaac Nash & Sons were quality anvil makers who bought out the anvil maker Peter Wright. After buying out Peter Wright their anvils became sort of a blend of the two brands. Nash's now had ledges on the feet like a Peter Wright . Nash kept their wide face and horn. Their quality easily matches Peter Wright or Hay Budden for rebound."

Someone correct me if I'm wrong... but from what I can gather this is a "forged" anvil out of wrought iron with a hardened steel faced welded on. I think I can deduce this from the fact that the markings are indented instead of raised, there are "tong holds" at the base of the anvil, and what appears to be weld upset along the face of the anvil.

 

[javand]

I think for knife work a properly screwed and glued wooden base is fine. People underestimate the weight of a base.
a 16X16X24 base of 4X4 pressure treated lumber weighs 140#. A 12X24X24 base 2X12 kiln dried white pine weighs 100#.
A 24" X16" white oak log weighs 185#

Chocks and chains properly placed and tensioned will keep things in place. Metal straps across the feet and lag screwed into the base securely also will hold the anvil snug.

Maybe it is just me, but I have the opposite opinion of a farriers tripod base. I picked up one at a blacksmith tailgate event with a 75# farriers anvil on it. It had retainer clamps to hold the anvil tight to the base. I found it seemed to be more bouncy than a solid wooden base. I gave it away.

Yeah I'm not talking about a farrier's tripod. I'm talking about a Brazeal style one, which is a much heavier duty version. Mine is made with 1" top plate, using 3/8" wall 3" square tubing for the legs, with bolt down plates on the bottoms, and oil/sand filled legs. Even not bolted down, it's about as hard to move as the 250lb anvil sitting on it.

The nice thing about a tripod though, is it's ability to span less than perfect slab, which, in my shop history, seems a given.


I do agree that wood will work, I didn't mean to imply that it wont, simply that you need to make sure it's immovably secured to the slab if you want it to perform. If you can do that, it's a fine option, but I prefer the tripod because of the ability to get my feet under the anvil, which allows me to hug my waist to the heel, and really get over the center-line of the anvil. In a proper stance for heavy forging of non-horseshoes, you don't stand arms length away from the waist facing the side of the anvil, you stand at the heel of the anvil with your waist 90 degrees opposed to the length of the anvil, where you can work horizontal to the two sides of the waist, and make square blows, and not need some angled peen abortion of a hammer to be able to make proper drawing or fullering strikes. The tripod really allows this without bending over.

It's also, I feel, a better option if you simply can't bolt it down, because if built heavy, with proper angle to the legs, gets a much wider footprint, without being in the way.

All of this is really just to drive home the point, that if your anvil moves at all when you're forging, you need to fix it. There's definitely more than one way to accomplish that, but a bunch of stacked wood or a crooked cut stump laying on the floor bouncing all over the place, IMO, isn't it. YMMV, as always, but most people simply don't know what they're missing until they've worked on an anvil that's properly mounted. It's mind blowing the difference in feel, lower fatigue (body and hearing), and efficiency of moving metal.

I just want to make it clear that, IMO, a bigger anvil, isn't the solution, a better base is. There are huge advantages for forging knives to having a smaller footprint to forge on, as long as it's not losing energy to improper mounting. The only reason to have a larger than 250lb anvil for any single smith (assuming the smaller anvil is properly mounted) is for heavy striking work with sledges. A 100lb and 400lb anvil will do the same work for single hand hammering, if they are setup correctly, but if they're poorly mounted, all you're gonna be doing is chasing around the steel with the 100lber.

 

[J. Keeton]

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Here is how it turned out.

It's on blocks to dry. The wood is coated with linseed oil mixed with turpentine (50/50).

Total weight of the assembly with anvil is 174 lbs.

I think my next move will be to attempt to flatten (to some degree) the face.

I also need to devise a caster arrangement and set of handles that fold down.

Cheers,
JKeeton

 

[JG Custom Metal Works]

Seems awfully high/tall. How high is that anvil face?