Any Opinions & Experiences With NuClayer - NoScale 2000 From Pop's?

J. Keeton

J. Keeton

Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,201
Has anyone tried this stuff out with success? I've never tried an anti-scaling compound, but have been interested in it ever since move from the forge to my DIY HT oven for hardening. With normalizing cycles included, I get a good deal of scale build up on my damascus and 1084 blades.

One option I've been thinking about trying is stainless foil wrapping.... which I still need to test out. (Can you oil quench with SS foil?... just curious)

Another option (other than "more extreme methods" like salt baths and nitrogen blankets) seems to be the anti-scaling compound. For those who use it:

1.) What are your general thoughts on the product?
2.) Any issues hardening with it on?
3.) Messy?
4.) Do you apply before normalization and keep the same coating on though hardening?

Cheers,
James



From Pop's Website Description:
NoScale2000 is suitable for all steels stainless or carbon. Oil and water quench pops the coating off. Air or plate quench will leave a white coating. can be scrubbed off with warm water

Meant to be a thin paint. Mix well. Brushed with foam brush or sprayed with an air brush after thinning with water. Can be instantly dried with heat gun, torch or heat from a forge.
Good for all carbon and stainless steels to 2000 degrees in forge or furnace.
Water and oil quench pops the coating off leaving a surprisingly durable black finish.
Plate quenching leaves the coating intact-turns white. Can be scrubbed off with water and a nylon scrubber. Wire wheel works as well.
No coarser than #220 finish on stainless before applying the NoScale..
Also used as a thin edge coat for helping to create hamons.

Important notes:
1. Blade must be squeaky clean. I scrub them with thinned Noscale-wipe off with a paper towel.
2. Make sure you have full coverage on stainless. Even small pin holes will create pits.
3. Do not-I repeat-Do not contaminate the NoScale 2000 with the Hamon 1800. Will eat your stainless.
4. Looks to have an unlimited shelf life. Try not to let it dry out. But if it does, simply add water and let it soak. Overnight is best, but I know how we all work.
5. Thin or reconstitute with non-chlorinated water. Does not have to be distilled but no chlorine.
Click to expand...
 
J. Keeton said:
One option I've been thinking about trying is stainless foil wrapping.... which I still need to test out. (Can you oil quench with SS foil?... just curious)
Click to expand...
I have not used the NoScale 2000, so I can’t say, but, I have wondered about the foil wrap also. Watching this.
 
Generally speaking, you can't use foil with an oil quench.
you just don't have time to get the out of the foil before it drops in temp too far.
If you try to quench with the foil still on, you don't get a fast enough quench.

Now if you could rig up some sort of insulated shear to chop all 4 sides all at once...

If course you can also do all the normalizing cycles in foil, take the blade out, then do the hardening and quench.
 
We use the NuClayer 2000 with AEB-L and NitroV. Just paint it on, let it dry, and apply a second or third coat to make sure you have complete coverage. One can of it probably does well over 50 knives if you don't let it dry out. If it does dry out, just add a little water and let it sit for a while and its good to go again. Ive also used it on carbon steels, but you really only need one coat for that. We have had zero issues with hardening, it has been great so far as far as that goes. But dont expect it to be as clean of a surface as when you use stainless foil. The clay hardens into a dark greyish coating, but we use an old worn out scotch brite belt to take the knives right back to shiny metal after temper. From there, you just grind/sand howver you normally do. Stainless foil for sure leaves you with a cleaner surface, but its pretty expensive and time consuming to use. The only slightly messy part is painting it on, but if you use a cheapo foam brush and a heat gun to spoeed up the drying, you could paint and dry a batch of 10 knives with 2 coats in about 10 minutes. Most of our knives , even the stainless ones, have hammer textured flats and belt finished bevels, so its not crucial for us to have a perfect shiny surface right out of heat treat. NuClayer is perfect for the way we use it. And I've heard nothing but good things from anyone who has used it.
 
If you use it for carbon steel, most of the clay comes off in the quench. But we still hit it with a worn out scotch brite if we want to take it back to shiny metal.
 
NuClayer is for making hamons. Use Turco II, Brownells, or ATP if you just want an anti-scale coating.
 
RedCrow said:
We use the NuClayer 2000 with AEB-L and NitroV. Just paint it on, let it dry, and apply a second or third coat to make sure you have complete coverage. One can of it probably does well over 50 knives if you don't let it dry out. If it does dry out, just add a little water and let it sit for a while and its good to go again. Ive also used it on carbon steels, but you really only need one coat for that. We have had zero issues with hardening, it has been great so far as far as that goes. But dont expect it to be as clean of a surface as when you use stainless foil. The clay hardens into a dark greyish coating, but we use an old worn out scotch brite belt to take the knives right back to shiny metal after temper. From there, you just grind/sand howver you normally do. Stainless foil for sure leaves you with a cleaner surface, but its pretty expensive and time consuming to use. The only slightly messy part is painting it on, but if you use a cheapo foam brush and a heat gun to spoeed up the drying, you could paint and dry a batch of 10 knives with 2 coats in about 10 minutes. Most of our knives , even the stainless ones, have hammer textured flats and belt finished bevels, so its not crucial for us to have a perfect shiny surface right out of heat treat. NuClayer is perfect for the way we use it. And I've heard nothing but good things from anyone who has used it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info and tips R RedCrow
 
First I've seen that stuff - sounds like it should work pretty good. Might even be better than the dry graphite for SS. For carbon steel there are several options around, and I like the dry graphite for carbon steel.

To see the stuff on Pop's, do a google search on "noscale-2000" and it should be the first thing that comes up. OR, paste "noscale-2000" in Pop's search bar. Then both the anti-scale 2000 and Hamon 1800 will come up.
 
Yeah, I think Dan is the guy's name. Seems to be a really cool dude with good products. He has one product for hamon, and the other for actual scale/decarb protection. I have used neither.

However, I have extensive experience with ATP-641 and it works great.....for carbon steel. I believe the NuClayer will be no different.

I have used SS foil to normalize and cycle blades with success. That is one SS envelope will handle a carbon steel blade's normalizing and thermal cycling. But as was said earlier, you can't get it out of the SS envelope fast enough for an oil quench.
 
As a general rule you don't use foil on carbon steels, high hardenability ones may be an exception, but even with thin O2 I prefer not to use it.

Pablo
 
B'Laster Industrial Graphite Dry Lubricant 8-GS seems to work well for me! I heat treated a 1095 blade and the scale was bulging off the sides when I grabbed it out of the kiln. Spraying down with this spray on other carbon steels, even Alabama Damascus, I can see the damascus pattern after heat treating. Doesn't seem to be much of any scale on the blade!
 
Just for HT'ing carbon steel I used to use plain old roach powder (borax) as I had several bottles of it on the shelf. Heat the blade over a propane torch and sprinkle the borax powder on and if forms a "glass" looking covering which holds up good for HT'ing. Now I usually use the graphite spray mentioned above. Items #B0094IZ3BA on Amazon. Easy to spray on and works good with carbon steels.
 
I have used NoScale a bit. To me it smells like bentonite clay which it probably is. It works but need to make sure blanks are clean and degreased to get best adhesion, I have had best results washing blanks in hot soapy water before applying NoScale.

After reading some threads here I bought some graphite spray to try.
 
I was gonna start a thread that was similar, but saw this one, so I’ll just ask it here.

Is ATP-641 going to have any advantage over satanite refractory when it comes to heat treating?
I’ve got a bunch of satanite, so if there’s not a clear advantage then I won’t bother ordering the ATP-641.
Also it says (in the Jantz description) that ATP-641 “crumbles on cooling” does that mean I’m really gonna have to put another coat on between each thermal cycle etc...?
 
Both work. You have to find the right thickness of the slurry for satanite to stay on the blade during HT. I think the ATP has some silicate of soda which makes it bond better.
 
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