"Black Box" Winchesters

[MB13]

The two I carry the most often also have a Coffin Jack and a 3971 Whittler that are taking a safe nap at the moment haha

 

[llKRAKENll]

Blade config and size are sweet on this knife. I liked yours so much that I had to get my own

 

[Heynowwww]

I like fish tails so decided to try this one.

 

[Will Power]

The two I carry the most often also have a Coffin Jack and a 3971 Whittler that are taking a safe nap at the moment hahaView attachment 2053953

Very good carry those Teardrop Jacks/Candle End, you can see where GEC took its cue from with the 85 pattern.

Thanks, Will

 

[JoKr]

 

[MB13]

Very good carry those Teardrop Jacks/Candle End, you can see where GEC took its cue from with the 85 pattern.

Thanks, Will

You said it! The spear point on those is a little wider than the other Winchester and it makes all the difference it’s one of my favorites

 

[MB13]

View attachment 2057447

I’ve been bouncing between the Winchester and the M&G lately and settled with carrying the Winchester. I like that it fills the hand a bit more and the shape and drop of the clip point is so nice. plus finding a replacement is a bit easier than the M&G lol

 

[majorpain1]

Does anyone know if Queen made these bronze black box Winchester knives along with the bone Winchesters?

 

[knowtracks]

I do believe Utica made those.


Dave

 

[sunknife]

Yellow bone black box. Pretty sure Queen made these, someone can correct me if I'm mistaken.
View attachment 2096655

 

[jmh33]

 

[iacchus]

 

[black mamba]

Until about 2 or 3 years ago, Black Box Winchesters could be had throughout the entire 30 years of their existence for roughly $50 each. When Queen closed down, Black Box prices went up, and up and . . .

 

[waynorth]

Until about 2 or 3 years ago, Black Box Winchesters could be had throughout the entire 30 years of their existence for roughly $50 each. When Queen closed down, Black Box prices went up, and up and . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . .But some were gifted!!! Thanks Fixall , Brian, for these nice knives, out of the blue!!! I am humbled and honored!!!
A redbone 4-blade Congress, a Moose with old Utica bone, and a serpentine Whittler with colorful handles!! All as new, in their Black Boxes!!
Thanks Brian - these sure add variety to my collection!!
These were in a larger Gift package some of you may recall; I coatailed news of it in Jack Black's gift thread!! These have been trickling across the border to me in Canada!!

 

[Will Power]

waynorth fine items Charlie. I too received a BB gift this week Jakeywax31 very kindly sent me a Stockman as I'd been looking for a mint one to 'cover' my user in case of loss. The mint one is the large shield version my user the smaller shield, really delighted to have both.

 

[lithicus]

waynorth fine items Charlie. I too received a BB gift this week Jakeywax31 very kindly sent me a Stockman as I'd been looking for a mint one to 'cover' my user in case of loss. The mint one is the large shield version my user the smaller shield, really delighted to have both.

I've been meaning to post my stockman in this thread, but keep forgetting to photograph it. I'll have to try to get that done sooner rather than later. You have some nice examples there!

I never knew there was a big and small shield on these though! Very interesting!! Do you have any additional information about them? Were they both manufactured in 1987? I noticed that tang stamps seem to be different sizes as well. Does the tang stamp correlate to the shield size used? I never noticed these differences before and now I feel like I need to do some research!

 

[Will Power]

L lithicus Like a lot of things, I used to know but banality and the mists of time have faded the details.

Both sized shields were made in 1987, looks like I got it round the WRONG way? The smaller is more common? Some had crocus finish others glaze. The tang-stamps are lightly different.

My friend Al MerryMadMonk would have known but sadly he is no longer active here, a serious poster and very pleasant man, I hope he is OK. Others such as Mike knifeswapper might know about production totals for the 87 Stockman?

Here's some interesting info

Someone asked to see the Winchester "Black Box" knives in one post. Well, here they are...

That's probably not what you had in mind sooooooooooo...


I made this chart for those who are interested in collecting Winchester "Black Box" knives. These are the ones that came out from 1987 to 1991.

1 BLADE
1901 - 4 inches - Clip (1987)
1920 - 5 1/4 inches - Clip (1990)
1924 - 4 1/4 inches - Clip (1987)
1927 - 5 3/8 inches - Clip (1988)
1936 - 5 inches - T-Clip (1990)

2 BLADES
2851 - 3 inches - Spear/pen (1988)
2857 - 3 1/4 inches - Spear/pen (1987)
2880 ½ - 3 7/8 inches - Spear/clip (1988)
2903 - 3 3/8 inches - Spear/pen (1990)
2904 - 4 1/8 inches - T-Clip/spey (1987)
2904 ½ - 4 inches - T-Clip/spey (1989)
2913 ½ - 4 1/4 inches - Clip/spear (1988)
2921 - 3 1/2 inches - Spear/pen (1987)
2935 - 3 1/4 inches - Wharncliffe/pen (1988)
2967 - 3 7/8 inches - Spear/clip (1988)
2978 - 3 1/4 inches - Spear/pen (1989)
2991 - 3 5/8 inches - Clip/spear (1988)

3 BLADES
3902 - 3 1/2 inches - Clip/pen/pen [Whittler] (1990)
3904 - 3 3/4 inches - Clip/spey/pen [Whittler] (1988)
3907 - 3 7/8 inches - Clip/spey/pen [Whittler] (1991)
3949 - 3 3/4 inches - Clip/spey/sheepsfoot (1989)
3964 - 3 5/8 inches - Clip/spey/sheepsfoot (1987)
3971 - 3 1/2 inches - Clip/small clip/pen [Whittler] (1989)
3995 - 4 inches - Spear/pen/pen [Whittler] (1991)

4 Blades
4935 - 3 1/4 inches - Sheepsfoot/Sheepsfoot/pen/pen (1991)


Kdarmy originally posted a list of Black Box/Red Letter Winchester knives. That list stands true today as far as I know. The only one I've haven't seen a trace of is the 1936 ½ Toothpick from 1992. I've seen several 1036 ½ toothpicks from 1992, but none of them were jigged bone. If anyone has a photo of a 1936 ½ jigged bone Toothpick, I'd love to see what this variation looks like.

There are also two sets:

- Model 37 Red Letter Set (5 knives)
- The Scouts (2 knives)

They're out there, but I keep buying Northfield and TC Barlows... so I may never get those sets

It has been fun collecting these. As Charlie has noted previously, you can definitely see the hand of Bill Howard in these knives. They are superb!

Many thanks to mckgreg for the beautiful pictures he posted years ago... that's what really inspired me to start collecting these.

The Black Box Winchester knives that were first released (1987-1991) -- the ones with brown jigged bone handles -- came in black boxes with red lettering... with one exception, the model 1924.

All the model 1924 knives I've seen have a black box with white letters. According to a chart by Clarence Risner, the curved tang stamp was used on the first version and about 400 were made. The straight line tang stamp was used on later versions... about 4,000 of these were made.

After about 1991, there were many other black box releases with various handle materials and different letter colors, e.g. Mother of Pearl handled knives came in black box/white letters; Burnt Orange bone handled knives came in black box/gold letters.

There are also some jigged Delrin-handled Winchester knives. All of these that I've seen come with black boxes/white lettering.

A note of caution: beware of the celluloid handled Winchester knives. They are notorious for outgassing.


Black Box Winchester knives that were first released (1987-1991)

See also page 23 of this thread where gunstockjack and MerryMadMonk discuss the shield, Risner is quoted but the image has gone.

 

[Jolipapa]

Will, I don't know if you're thinking to these tables I fetched here (don't remember who posted first).



and cherry on the cake :




Hore this helps!

 

[lithicus]

L lithicus Like a lot of things, I used to know but banality and the mists of time have faded the details.

Both sized shields were made in 1987, looks like I got it round the WRONG way? The smaller is more common? Some had crocus finish others glaze. The tang-stamps are lightly different.

My friend Al MerryMadMonk would have known but sadly he is no longer active here, a serious poster and very pleasant man, I hope he is OK. Others such as Mike knifeswapper might know about production totals for the 87 Stockman?

Here's some interesting info




See also page 23 of this thread where gunstockjack and MerryMadMonk discuss the shield, Risner is quoted but the image has gone.

Will, I don't know if you're thinking to these tables I fetched here (don't remember who posted first).
View attachment 2250193
View attachment 2250194View attachment 2250195
View attachment 2250196View attachment 2250197
and cherry on the cake :

View attachment 2250198
View attachment 2250199

Hore this helps!

Wow, this is all incredibly helpful!! Thank you guys! I had no idea there were "satin finish" and "high polish" versions and also didn't know about the shield sizes. I read the start of this thread some time ago and did various other research. But, it looks like I need to go through this thread again start to finish and much more thoroughly!

I got mine out from storage to take a look and grab a picture. I have the black box, but didn't include it in this photo. It is definitely "high polish" and I believe it is the regular shield, not the small one; which makes sense as the charts above seem to indicate this was the most heavily produced version of the 3964.

 

[Will Power]

Jolipapa That's just it Alain, many thanks! It's a valuable source of reference and I think it disappeared with either hosting site nonsense or else the OP deleting the pic. Looks like there is one less mint High Polish (Crocus) small shield now as mine is certainly a user! Wildly outlandish /optimistic pricing back in '95, not even in our inflated epoch would you get 750 for one

Only problem, now I NEED a Stockman Whittler

Thanks, Will