Blade Steel Rehardening

Wayne Goddard had a Carbon V blade analyzed (destructively - ouch). He published the results in his book The Wonder of Knife Making.
This book is currently available on Google Books.
The composition of Carbon V was:
Carbon___0.95
Mn______0..46
Si_______0.16
Cr_______0.48
V_______0.19

The composition is similar to the 1095 Cro Van used by Ka-Bar, but Ka-Bar runs their blades at 56-58 and Camillus ran their blades at 58-59.

Cool, never knew this. It looks very similar to O-1, but without the tiny amount of Ni. Looks similar to the Cro Van as well.

cotdt,

What do you think about trying this with the Carbon V?

I recently obtained several of the Camillus reject blanks that are currently floating around, and if your willing and able to improve them, then I might just give it a try.

I also have a Schrade knife blank that will need a heat treat after I grind it.

Thanks,
David

Going based on what knarfeng has said, people have used up to 63.5 rc with good results with a similar steel O-1. For small and medium sized blades, this is what I would pick. Like knarfeng said, the blanks already have a good heat treat, but they decided to go over the embrittlement region in the tempering instead of under. If you would like to see how the steel performs with a temper lower than the embrittlement region for higher hardness, send me an email and I'd be interested.
 
I have a few CS true flight throwers lying around. Let me know if you want to try one of those.
 
I have a few CS true flight throwers lying around. Let me know if you want to try one of those.

Sure, but it won't make a good throwing knife at 63-64 rc. :D Might break. ;) That said, I'm a big fan of low alloy steel at high hardnesses.
 
Sure, but it won't make a good throwing knife at 63-64 rc. :D Might break. ;) That said, I'm a big fan of low alloy steel at high hardnesses.
The reason I ask is that I've got about six blanks of them that I plan on making into sheath knives. I was just wondering if they would have been heat treated differently than a regular Carbon V knife since they were throwers (different HT for different purpose).

I'll be sending the email shortly.
 
The reason I ask is that I've got about six blanks of them that I plan on making into sheath knives. I was just wondering if they would have been heat treated differently than a regular Carbon V knife since they were throwers (different HT for different purpose).

I have no clue. Their standard 58-59 rc should be plenty tough, though. Throwing knives don't really require as much toughness as some suggest. Hitting a wooden block at 30 MPH tip-first may sound like a lot of stress, but most steels can take it easily w/o snapping.
 
Sure, but it won't make a good throwing knife at 63-64 rc. :D Might break. ;) That said, I'm a big fan of low alloy steel at high hardnesses.
Well, I am donating it for experiment :).\ Besides as that knife is, it might make an ok utility knife.
 
Update on AUS8 / AUS8A.
Watanabe emailed me last night. Aichi rep was at his shop, so he asked about those two.
Yes, they're the same, at from Aichi Steel. AUS8A is annealed aus8 in their classification. Apparently A stands for annealed. Which explains why it's more popular with knifemakers, as I was told it's easier to work with.

The only mystery that remains is where does the data floating on the net about different AUS8A come from... I've made note in my steel charts about that part.
 
Update on AUS8 / AUS8A.
Watanabe emailed me last night. Aichi rep was at his shop, so he asked about those two.
Yes, they're the same, at from Aichi Steel. AUS8A is annealed aus8 in their classification. Apparently A stands for annealed. Which explains why it's more popular with knifemakers, as I was told it's easier to work with.

The only mystery that remains is where does the data floating on the net about different AUS8A come from... I've made note in my steel charts about that part.

Ah that clarifies things. It's pretty confusing that a company would give the annealed version of the same steel a different name. This can create even more confusion now that people know this, with all those knives marked AUS-8A on the market...
 
Probably it will.
I'm still trying to reach other guys listing AUS8A with different specs... Most likely they copied data from the same source. Unlikely that I'll ever find out :)
Or may be Key to metals will figure something out and get back to me.
 
The first batch is done! I thought I should show the process I use for you DIY'ers. The first knife I received is a Chris Reeves Mnandi S30V at 58-59 rc. It is an excellent cutter with thin 2.2 mm thickness and hollow grind, I didn't expect to get these since they already perform well stock. As a gentlemen's folder, let's aim for S30V 62-63 rc.

First, the steel must be annealed. The formula is to heat to 1650°F, hold 2 hours, slow cool 25°F per hour to 1100°F. This took the entire day. I did this together with a bunch of other knives, all in 309 stainless steel pouches. Now the steel has been "reset" and I can heat treat it as normal. The fun part.

I'm going to deviate from the Crucible S30V datasheet here, as their formulas are only suitable for hardnesses up to 61. Austenization was 2060°F held 30 minutes, then I removed the stainless steel foil quickly and quenched in oil. Checked for warp while it is still hot -> no warp. Then I immediately dunked it in liquid nitrogen for 2 hours cryo treatment, which must be done before tempering. Many people cryo after the first temper, which loses 2 rc points. You also shouldn't wait before cryoing, as the steel structure stabilizes at room temperature over time. Cryoing the way I do can crack blades, but it's yet to happen to me, and it's the only way for cryo to do its job 100% based on several research papers.

Tempering was 975°F three times 2 hours each, each time quenched in water to avoid carbide precipitation as it cools through certain undesirable temperatures. Tempering can also be done at 400°F. Certain in-between temperatures lead to brittleness, and is likely to be responsible for some of the early chippy S30V. The other issue being retained austenite from the heat treat over time converting to brittle untempered martensite. Both cryo treatment and using the high temper gets rid of any retained austenite.

This is how it looked like out of the heat treat. It was pretty clean after austenization but I didn't use any vacuum foil for the 6 hours of tempering so we get some black scale:

afterht.jpg


After buffing off scale and sharpening to 10° per side, as the owner hired me to do:

afterbuffingsharpening.jpg


Couldn't get the scale off the nail-clip part. There was still some burr formation while sharpening which is a sign of ductility, which is good! Edges that don't burr much while sharpening tend to be chippy. I did my standard chipping test cutting solid copper wire, and method of edge deformation looked like rolling (0.1mm, sharpened out easily). At this extreme edge thinness, I consider this a good result. Well, when the owner gives the feedback in actual use we will know how it performs.

As a sidenote, my Fallkniven 3G/SGPS performed like AUS-8 @58rc despite being advertised as 62 rc. It lost a shaving edge after cutting only a handful of boxes. I rehardened mine yesterday to 62-63 rc, and performance thus far is WAY better. Somehow I don't think it was originally at 62 rc.
 
Looks great! I'd be very interested in seeing how it performs for the user. I'm tempted to try and grind a blade out of some M2 HSS stock for my Opinel and send it to you to see how high you can take it. That's been my only complaint about the Opi's is their edge holding... Hmmm...
 
Looks great! I'd be very interested in seeing how it performs for the user.

Me too. Do you know what kind of carbon steel the Opinel uses?

Wow!!! Dude, did you polish the blade yourself?

Yeah, it took about half hour on the buffing wheel. The ordinary buffing compound doesn't work well in removing scale so I made my own using diamond powder and parafin.
 
This is amazing!
I was thinking about making a blade with HSS for this knife.
But this looks like much better!

To be added, the rebirth certificate looks also wonderful!
 
Thanks cotdt! So far I think it looks great in those pics. I will test it out as soon as it gets back as my primary edc for a while and let everyone know how it turns out.
 
Despite my defense against Phil, am I the only one who finds it a little bit iffy/sketchy that cotdt is custom-formulating heat-treatment regimes?

Following industry protocols is one thing, but whipping up your own and then giving an assumed and untested resultant hardness strikes me as poor science.
 
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