California legal folder and automatic

[Locutus D'Borg]

Your city or county may have its own rules, but for auto's, 2" blade. Makers produce cali legal autos (Microtech Exocet and Troodon Mini, Kershaw's launch 4 & 5, and other makers). I live in San diego. I have mainly 3" folders because that length is legal pretty much in every county and almost all states. YMMV

 

[Final Edge]

Just for the sake of complete accuracy-

It's also illegal to carry a switchblade (blade 2" or longer) on ones person on private property, including in ones own home.

This is the result of an Appeals Court ruling from 2009, People v SC (a juvenile court case, so no name of defendant).

Notice how in statute 21510, under part (b), it only says "Carries the knife upon the person", with no mention of public or private property/places. Link-

https://www.leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=21510.&lawCode=PEN

In People v SC, Mr. SC was found to have a switchblade on his person (in a pocket) while on private property. He was arrested, convicted, and appealed. He tried to argue that the "public place" reference in part (a), which refers to a switchblade in a vehicle in a public place, should also apply to part (b), carrying a switchblade on ones person, and that since he was carrying on private property rather than a public place that his conviction should be overturned.

But the Appeals Court did not agree, ruling that because part (b) doesn't specify public or private property, that it applies to everywhere in the state, including in ones own home.

Here are some quotes from their ruling-

"we conclude the statute is violated any time a person carries a switchblade knife on his or her person, regardless of where the possession occurs".

"A switchblade carried on the person represents a constant threat to others, whether carried in public or in private".

"A switchblade carried at home, for example, is dangerous to family members and house guests during an argument".

This is one of the most boneheaded rulings that I have seen the California Appeals Court make. But on the bright side, there is language in that ruling, that in my opinion, confirms ones legal right to possess "switchblades" (blades 2" or longer), in the state of California.

Here is a link to their ruling- https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/2009/a123371/

Note: That ruling refers to section 653k, which was the switchblade statute in 2009, California later changed how they numbered penal code statutes. Section 653k was changed to 21510.

Although I moved out of California 10 years ago, this information is rather disturbing. So what this ruling actually states is that it is legal to keep a switchblade knife in your home, but the moment you pick it up, you are in actuality carrying it, and so in violation of the law. I don't see how they are actually saying anything different than the previous sentence. Amazing.

 

[killgar]

Although I moved out of California 10 years ago, this information is rather disturbing. So what this ruling actually states is that it is legal to keep a switchblade knife in your home, but the moment you pick it up, you are in actuality carrying it, and so in violation of the law. I don't see how they are actually saying anything different than the previous sentence. Amazing.

Technically speaking it all depends on the definition of "carries the knife on the person". In the case of People v SC the defendant was carrying the knife in his pocket. It is a bit subjective, and it's possible that just holding a switchblade in one's hand could be considered a violation of the law.

However, there would have to be a cop there to see you do it. And what are the chances that there will be a cop present in your home or on your property to see you carrying a switchblade. This is something that is easy to avoid.

Like I said, I consider the courts ruling on this particular matter to be boneheaded.

But as a resident of California who owns switchblades, I'm not worried about it. I don't have LEO's in my home, and if I were going to have one in my home for an official reason I'd put my switchblades away.

 

[Final Edge]

I guess I should have clarified better. It isn't the threat of arrest or something similar I was referring to with the word "disturbing". The disturbing element was the logic involved in coming to this decision. Considering all the possible weapons available to a home owner to legally defend themselves and their families, they felt it necessary to disqualify a switchblade above let's say an 8 inch chef's knife or a 22 inch machete - not to mention countless other deadly objects you can carry around your property freely.

 

[killgar]

I guess I should have clarified better. It isn't the threat of arrest or something similar I was referring to with the word "disturbing". The disturbing element was the logic involved in coming to this decision. Considering all the possible weapons available to a home owner to legally defend themselves and their families, they felt it necessary to disqualify a switchblade above let's say an 8 inch chef's knife or a 22 inch machete - not to mention countless other deadly objects you can carry around your property freely.

I agree completely. And those were my exact thoughts when I read the ruling. It struck me as being rather ridiculous that the court chose to single out switchblades as "dangerous" weapons when kitchen knives are so commonplace. That's why I call it a "bonehead" ruling.

I think it's a safe bet that the vast majority of crimes committed with knives in this country are committed with kitchen knives, in particular domestic violence cases, since kitchen knives tend to be readily available.

Unfortunately this is not the only stupid ruling from the California Appeals Court, and it won't be the last. However, to their credit the court has made several rulings that have benefited knife owners, users, and enthusiasts, but their decision in People v SC is not among their best work.

 

[Puppy'sPal]

akti.org/state-knife-laws/california/

Been there, done that, many times....and still no help. When it comes to my specific example, hypothetical scenario, which very well could happen given break-ins and home intrusions/invasions are not that uncommon, Killgar and others breakdown has offered some points of reference.

From what I can gather, one should be OK if such a scenario arose, to use an auto knife in self-defense given it is A) within the premise/domicile, and B) grabbed, not carried on person or in pocket. Given there's no way to prove unless the intruder claims "nope, he pulled it out of his pocket" but then again, how credible will the attacker's word be in said trial? Also, its absolutely absurd to not have laws or overlook 8-10" kitchen knives yet a 4" auto is deemed a weapon. Go figure.

I pray and hope no such scenario ever arises but almost safe to guess if it did, believe most people would grab what they could, maybe even what they had on them or on a dresser to defend their own lives or the lives of their loved ones. After all, isn't that what the right to bare arms is all about?

 

[EVISCERATOR]

A unavoidable trip to the California cesspool and restrictive gun / automatic knife laws, influenced my re-discovery of Cold Steel folders. Always liked the CS fixed blades, but avoided their folders because I thought they were plastic and of poor quality. When I discovered there was no CA length limitation on folding knives, I sought out the largest (reasonable) folder I could find and took a chance on the Voyager XL Tanto which changed my opinion on CS knives.

 

[killgar]

Woah, woah, woah, the wording is so nuts in regards to this California law. Can't even store in one's car in one's own garage? What if it's a vintage switchblade stored in an old restored VW that always remains parked in the garage? Mind blowing.

I know I'm a month late, but apparently I missed this^ last time around, and now that the thread has been bumped and I've re-read it I wanted to address this point.

It is perfectly legal to have a switchblade in ones vehicle in ones own garage, in fact in People v SC the California Appeals court specifically said that it is.

Here is what they said regarding this subject-

Quote- "a violation of the vehicle clause occurs only when such constructive possession occurs in a "public place or place open to the public", however, a conviction cannot be based on the presence of a switchblade knife in the passenger area of a car when the car is located in a nonpublic place. As a result, for example, it is not a violation of section 653k (21510) to keep a switchblade in the glove compartment, as long as the car is parked in a private garage".

Now they aren't saying the knife must be in the glove compartment, they are only offering that as one example. The reference to "passenger area" means the entire interior of the vehicle. And of course it's always legal to have switchblades locked in the trunk of ones vehicle, even in public places.

 

[VorpelSword]

I don't digest the written word that well.

What I get from some of the posts here is that California law allows pocket carry of any size folding knife as long as it is folded. My guess is that local jurisdictions may be m ore restrictive.

It is my inexpert and poorly informed opinion that the Bill of Rights supports open carry of about any cutting tool through the explicit protections of the Second Amendment. . . .just as it does for firearms.

Contrast this with knife laws in the UK where it is now forbidden to carry any cutting tool in any manner, pocket or belt, in public.

 

[killgar]

What I get from some of the posts here is that California law allows pocket carry of any size folding knife as long as it is folded. My guess is that local jurisdictions may be m ore restrictive.

You are correct, as long as the knife is a manual-opening knife and does not meet the California definition of a "switchblade" (most one-hand openers don't meet that definition), then they are legal to carry under CA state law. Some cities/counties do have there own blade length limits, but those limits are on openly carried knives.

For example, Los Angeles has a 3" blade length limit on openly-carried knives of any kind. So it is perfectly legal to walk around LA in public with a manual folding knife, with a 4" blade (or longer), carried closed and concealed in ones pocket, but it would be a violation of LA codes to carry the same knife openly and visible. Although it is legal to openly carry a manual folder with a blade under 3". None of this makes any kind of logical sense, but that's not unusual when it comes to knife laws.

There are however exceptions to the LA blade length limit that allow for the open-carry of any size knife (manual folder or fixed-blade), if the knife is carried for work, recreational activities, or religious worship.

It is my inexpert and poorly informed opinion that the Bill of Rights supports open carry of about any cutting tool through the explicit protections of the Second Amendment. . . .just as it does for firearms.

Although I, and many others agree, both the Bill of Rights, and the Second Amendment face significant challenges (political opposition) in the state on California, particularly on the subject of firearms.

 

[RobMofSD]

Just remember that the definition of switchblade is NOT what you would expect. For example in our last thread where is was discussed, Kickstop knives like the new Chaves would be switchblades under California law.

 

[Ca Republican]

I was told in California, folder blade length must be less than 3''. is that correct?
I was told in California, automatic blade length must be less than 2''. is that correct?

Native Californian here, the only blade restriction is for autos at less than 2".

There are no other blade length restrictions. The other restriction worth noting is for fixed blades which must be carried openly regardless of length.