Catastrophic Kukuri failure

Twindog said:
Nonetheless, it's nice that this thread has an absence of people shouting, "get a fixed blade."
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You are correct, it is nice:). And your pointing to a potential weakness in this design is also significant here as well, as it may have led to the apparent cracking and the apparent rust.
 
PURPLEDC said:
You sir are missing my point. I never said there were no knives designed for batoning. I used the term "Most". By using the word "most" it should have been apparent that I am aware that knives designed for batoning do exist negating the need for a survey of makers to provide proof of my remark while at the same time acknowledging that the majority arent designed with that purpose in mind. Not that they dont exist period. Still not the point I was making. The point was that many knives are not designed with a specific purpose yet people find they excel in those areas and are perfectly fine for the job. I was simply stating that while that most (there is that word again) knives are designed to cut things that they have other purposes that they get adopted for and that not all unintended uses automatically qualify as abuse, misuse or neglect Now even if a certain knife DOES excel at batoning it doesnt mean that the company designed it for the task or that they will honor any warranty claims if using it as such. Take for instance sebenzas. Many people flick them open. They arent desigened as such. CRK calls it abuse. People still do it because the design works well for such an opening technique. In most cases the sebenza can handle it. But it doesnt mean the company likes the idea of people doing it.
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Easy, big fellow. Nothing personal.

MORA? Designed for batoning? 1/16-1/8" thick. Mostly stub tang. Plastic handle. 3-4" lblade.

Many makers specifically advertise their knives as suitable for batoning, Bark river for one. Most don't say one way or the other. Saying not to be used for batoning ?????

My point: most fixed-blade knives, used properly, can be used for batoning. Any tool can be broken (especially if already cracked like this one).

Nice handle, UNKY
 
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It looks like the metal in the cho area got inadvertently hardened by the Kami. I would suspect that was when the metal initially cracked.
I have had some khuks that I could see very small cracks radiating out of the cho area up towards the spine. Never a good sign.
I have even gone as far as filing and sanding out a cho to make sure all looked OK in the area that concerned me. I have been teased for being a cho polisher.
Your khuk should handle batoning without any issue. I think you could expect a replacement from the maker without much difficulty. Send pictures of the broken area (The closer the better) and they should easily be able to identify the flaw.
The most important thing is you weren't hurt during the mishap!
 
From the pictures that you posted and the time you said of 20 minutes from breakage to pictures. That knife had a internal hair line crack which had oxidized long before you broke it.

As a maker and user of all manner of knives that size and thickness should be able to handle the beating you have described.

Now for you guys that are saying you now don't want a KuKuri knife.
I have seen the same thing "one time" on a Randal made knife. You can check everything and still once in a long while a hairline fracture or stress riser can make it past quality control.
 
If properly done, a cho will not become a weak point and is not a design flaw.
In fact there is some reasonable data to suggest that the cho actually helps to prohibit shock to the handle.
The actual whys and wherefores of the cho and it's origins have unfortunately been lost to time.

If not done properly, a cho can become a weak point due to cracking.
The key is proper manufacture and proper quality control.

However, I don't believe the cho was a factor is this instance.

As the pictures bear out and as Rhinoknives pointed out, this khukuri had a inclusion in the steel near the spine which likely led to failure during the stresses of batoning. If the user was batoning near the handle (which you should never do on any knife) it only hastened the demise of this khukuri.

Sometimes cheaper isn't always better.
 
Dirtbiker said:
Buy a Himalayan Imports chiruwa ang khola and they are guaranteed for life and warranted as a pry bar. Can a HI blade fail sure but HI will stand behind it.
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This is where I'm going when I'm ready to buy a kukuri. I love looking at their site, beautiful knives.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Easy, big fellow. Nothing personal.

MORA? Designed for batoning? 1/16-1/8" thick. Mostly stub tang. Plastic handle. 3-4" lblade.

Many makers specifically advertise their knives as suitable for batoning, Bark river for one. Most don't say one way or the other. Saying not to be used for batoning ?????

My point: most fixed-blade knives, used properly, can be used for batoning. Any tool can be broken (especially if already cracked like this one).

Nice handle, UNKY
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Im still failing to see how that is any different than what I said. I also dont know why you keep referencing mora.
 
gytheran said:
Obviously a flaw in the material, not the technique.
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Here's the e-mail I received today:


Dear David,
Thank you. I am very sorry for the broken knife.

This is a classic case of a hidden hairline facture that was inside the notch of the blade. It was not visible to a naked eye and on extreme pressure it gave in, breaking the knife into two halves. We sometimes face this problem although we try our best to avoid it but since our knives are made from Scrap Steel it seems quite complicated to manage it. Anyways we keep trying harder and harder. I thank you for your co-operation.

I am ready to ship the Replacement knife (1 x Jungle Panawal) bu the shipping is quite expensive. I wander if you are willing to put an order with us in which I can ship the Replaement Knife. I am also willing to offer you good discount in this order if that helps you in anways so that we can sort this matter out. I hope we really do. I await your good reply.

Thank you for your understanding.



Thank you and Namaste,
SLT, KHHI
 
This is their standard response. They are more than willing to replace the blade as long as you place another order for another blade from them.
 
Karda said:
This is their standard response. They are more than willing to replace the blade as long as you place another order for another blade from them.
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Yea. I think they would probably go ahead and ship it anyway. I haven't responded yet. Might look and see if there is anything else I could use. I ain't paying shipping for both tho, and maybe they'd cut me a deal? Couldn't hurt, worst case I'd just say "no thanks" and get'em to ship the replacement.
 
So the question is, how willing/able (i.e. generous) are you to help them out? The request is a smart move on their part.

The failure wasn't your fault, you certainly don't owe them another purchase... They said they'd offer a discount on another product, so how much of an addict are you? ;) Maybe you could get a gift for someone else...
 
chiral.grolim said:
So the question is, how willing/able (i.e. generous) are you to help them out? The request is a smart move on their part.

The failure wasn't your fault, you certainly don't owe them another purchase... They said they'd offer a discount on another product, so how much of an addict are you? ;) Maybe you could get a gift for someone else...
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I'm no addict. I can quit anytime I want. I need another blade now about like I needed any of the other 50 or so knives I currently have. So, I guess I'll find something and see what they might do for me. :D

I did e-mail this morning to confirm that, regardless, they would send me a replacement. As it's probably 3 a.m. in Nepal I haven't heard back yet.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Im still failing to see how that is any different than what I said. I also dont know why you keep referencing mora.
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Apologies.

You posted:
3. Honestly most knives arent "designed" to be baton with period. Most companies consider it abuse. Since the popularity of batoning some makers have built special models and claim it is suitable but for the most part a knife is made to cut things.
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I simply disagree to an extent.

Most knives baton and remain intact without being designed specially for that task, MORA''s being an example.

Obviously, there are companies that do not consider batoning with a fixed-blade knife to be abuse per se, although we have seen how some abuse their knives outrageously while batoning. A number of companies specifically promote their knives, great and small, for batoning. I mentioned Bark River. Ka-Bar's site has posted a review that touts one of their knives for batoning: http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/153 More could be cited. Obviously, some makers do not warranty their knives for batoning - while saying their knives are tough enough to baton. (e.g. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1136392-Batonning-a-Knife-to-Process-Wood)

I agree that knives are certainly made for cutting, as you said. Some are poor at that primary task. This is, however, a khukuri - a sharpened leaf spring. It fills the same niche as a hand axe - primarily a chopper and secondarily a cutter and, if made properly, a fine tool for the batoning, which is less stressful than chopping. (Lay a khukuri on top of a hand axe. Typically the khuk's "sweet spot" runs where the edge of the axe head is. Most of my khuks are heavier than most of my hand axes.)

And if you missed it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JmCxQN_CorM
 
Regretfully

If you buy junk you get junk

Any company that admits they are using scrap steel I would not really have much interest in

IMHO if you are going to be looking at imported Khuks I have been very pleased with the HI products

Also in cold weather camping an Axe really is the right tool IMHO

Save your Khuk for lighter tasks than splitting logs

If you where really out there and had to survive a broken tool could be disastrous

I have spent extensive time in cold weather in the bush in Alberta ,Yukon , NWT , Alaska , Asia and axes and saws are what we processed fire wood with
 
"Any company that admits they are using scrap steel I would not really have much interest in"

Well, 5160 is called by many "old chevy truck spring". And I'm pretty sure most custom makers have resorted to using scrap:D. But I do see your point

"IMHO if you are going to be looking at imported Khuks I have been very pleased with the HI products"

So, HI uses "new" steel then? It's been my understanding that for many years traditional Kuks are made with "scrap" steel. Although I would agree that using "scrap" in the context of the letter was probably an.....unfortunate....word. May recycled? Reconstituted? Re-used?


"If you where really out there and had to survive a broken tool could be disastrous"

That is 100% correct. I just wish, no matter what brand or type you use that any could be considered 100% infallible. But it ain't gonna happen.
 
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JParanee said:
Regretfully

If you buy junk you get junk

Any company that admits they are using scrap steel I would not really have much interest in

IMHO if you are going to be looking at imported Khuks I have been very pleased with the HI products

Also in cold weather camping an Axe really is the right tool IMHO

Save your Khuk for lighter tasks than splitting logs

If you where really out there and had to survive a broken tool could be disastrous

I have spent extensive time in cold weather in the bush in Alberta ,Yukon , NWT , Alaska , Asia and axes and saws are what we processed fire wood with
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HI, I love them, also uses used leaf springs from cars.
The difference might be the HI uses Mercedes springs while others stick to Yugos.
Just kidding of course. There are no Yugos in Nepal
 
There is nothing wrong with using reclaimed steel.
There are few real traditionally made khukuri that are not made from it.
Nowadays it is mostly leaf springs that are used, prior to that (many moons ago) it was railroad track.

Many of the "Kathmandu arsenal horde" khukuri that were brought to the states are khukuri that have seen much conflict, not the least of which are two world wars have forge inclusions that are visible to the naked eye. These khukuri served their bearers well thru two wars and many border conflicts. Some may have even seen use prior to that against the british. They are still intact.

It is in how the steel is treated at the forge by the craftsman and in quality control before the finished product reaches the customer.

The premise behind getting you to place an order is so that you can be sold another item and so that you are then responsible for the costs of shipping. The replacement will be sent with the new, but you will still pay the shipping.
 
Karda said:
There is nothing wrong with using reclaimed steel.
There are few real traditionally made khukuri that are not made from it.
Nowadays it is mostly leaf springs that are used, prior to that (many moons ago) it was railroad track.

Many of the "Kathmandu arsenal horde" khukuri that were brought to the states are khukuri that have seen much conflict, not the least of which are two world wars have forge inclusions that are visible to the naked eye. These khukuri served their bearers well thru two wars and many border conflicts. Some may have even seen use prior to that against the british. They are still intact.

It is in how the steel is treated at the forge by the craftsman and in quality control before the finished product reaches the customer.

The premise behind getting you to place an order is so that you can be sold another item and so that you are then responsible for the costs of shipping. The replacement will be sent with the new, but you will still pay the shipping.
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True about the shipping unless the discount offered on the second knife covers that.
Seriously get the replacement, gift it to a friend and order a Kukri from HI.
Not getting any commission from them, just liking their Kuks a lot.

Or maybe read in the BF HI makers forum at first to get a feel for how they are different and what they use their profits for etc.
 
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