Causation...What Say You?

[RayseM]

I'm liking the bent by hand in a prying event theory and then used the sheath to try to straighten - all a big fail. You Sir Horsewright are being exceedingly generous. especially that you are willing to send him 2 knives with different blades so he doesn't need to wait for the 2nd batch of 26C3. My hats off to you for your ethics and commitment to your customers. I guess not really knowing the how and why in this situation is the dilemma. I feel a 1/2 truth or 1/2 lie in all this.

 

[bayouace]

Yep, you're not getting the whole story.

 

[Lorien]

If I recall, on the infamous Gerber Mark II daggers, the bent or "canted" blade was a feature! More ergonomic, or something like that...

I am curious about how honest the customer is being about its current condition, as well as if it can be straightened back out relatively easily. If there's no separation at the handle, I'd give it a shot with the handle still on.

the cant was there so the knife would fit closer to the body, as I understand it

 

[jacobconroy75]

You'll never know sir. It might be a good idea to send pictures of your knives to customers when shipping out from this point forth. It would present as a nice, personal touch of customer service and... if this situation comes up again, you will be dealing with a shipping claim or a crazy customer.

It's a bummer that you have to deal with this.

 

[FredyCro]

Unless the blade is edge quenched or the spine was torched, I think it would take a considerate amount of force to take a permanent bend like that. Also, shipping damage is not likely as the customer would probably claim straight away that the package/box was damaged.

 

[Drew Riley]

the cant was there so the knife would fit closer to the body, as I understand it

That is correct. Less prone to snagging that way.

 

[Horsewright]

Thanks guys for all your input!

How long did the person have it? Did they send it back in the original box? Did they send pictures of the box showing the condition it arrived in? How to you pack them when you ship?

Looking at that my snap judgment is somebody has a big knife shaped bruise on their body now.

He had it just the one day. He did not notice any damage on the box and no pics of the packaging. We've shipped thousands of knives and only had one damaged in transit. It was run over (which is why my mind went there for this one) and actually had tire tracks on the packaging! It cracked the handle material (bone), which I replaced for the customer. He was a Govt trapper in Co I believe. Anyhoo, Knife ships in the sheath and wrapped in bubble wrap. Since that inicdent handles are double bubble wrapped and then in a Fed EX box.We've had surprisingly few shipping deals for the actual amount of knives shipped.

I'm with Danke42, Looks like someone fell of a horse and landed on his knife or some similar event.

Not really seeing that. Done that too many times (unintentional dismounts) my ownself with lack of said bow. Last time I landed on my pistol and that certainly did not bend. Wife won't let me ride the young ones anymore.

Straighten at the same temperature it was bent. Put some soft jaws in the vise and bend it straight. Easy peasy lemon squeezie. The blade has a soft spine.

Hoss

Thank you sir. Happen to know a guy that has some scrap leather around to pad a vise with!

someone's fat ass could bend a knife like that like that. Maybe he needs a thicker knife.
that narrow finger choil, coupled with thin stock, there just isn't a lot of strength there. The sheath woulda gave once the knife did is my guess
for it to yield like that at the hardness is pretty cool.

Yeah I was kinda pleased with the heat treat my ownself, knowing that the edge is that hard and the clay coating made the diff. I'd of told ya it was purely decorative on a little itty bitty knife this size, I mean its not a katana. In the original pics of this knife and sheath before damage that is a riata, (braided rawhide rope) that the knife is up against. That reata (see what I did there edamacating ya, either spelling is correct), is 3/8 " diameter to give ya a size comparison of the knife.

I had a customer bring me a fillet knife he bought a few years earlier. I guarantee them for life for materials and workmanship. I'll even replace the handle if it wears out or gets ruined (usually from the dishwasher, which is mentioned as not covered).
The knife was broken in half mid-blade. He only brought me the handle and half blade, no tip part. I asked him for the other half. He said it was somewhere in his truck, but he couldn't find it. I told him I would need the whole knife to honor the warranty. He went to the truck and immediately returned with the other half. The tip was bent almost 30°. I looked at him and asked what he was prying. He grinned sheepishly and said the cabin door on his boat was stuck and he was trying to pry bit open. I offered him a new knife at 1/2 price.

Yeah I don't even ask on broken tips anymore. Just fix em.

If I recall, on the infamous Gerber Mark II daggers, the bent or "canted" blade was a feature! More ergonomic, or something like that...

I am curious about how honest the customer is being about its current condition, as well as if it can be straightened back out relatively easily. If there's no separation at the handle, I'd give it a shot with the handle still on.

They were worth more if they had bent on an enemy sentry's rib!

Hoss is the man! Lil itty bitty bend at a time and dang if it didn't straighten right out. Took some time.

I don't think sitting on a blade heat treated to HRc-63-64 could bend just by sitting on it.

Ya know I've been thinking about this, a lot and I've just got too many of these out there. Certainly this wouldn't be the first guy to throw a knife and sheath in the back pocket if thats what happened.

At least you know the heat treatment is pretty good!

Ye sir!

 

[Horsewright]

I'm liking the bent by hand in a prying event theory and then used the sheath to try to straighten - all a big fail. You Sir Horsewright are being exceedingly generous. especially that you are willing to send him 2 knives with different blades so he doesn't need to wait for the 2nd batch of 26C3. My hats off to you for your ethics and commitment to your customers. I guess not really knowing the how and why in this situation is the dilemma. I feel a 1/2 truth or 1/2 lie in all this.

Probably never know for sure.

You'll never know sir. It might be a good idea to send pictures of your knives to customers when shipping out from this point forth. It would present as a nice, personal touch of customer service and... if this situation comes up again, you will be dealing with a shipping claim or a crazy customer.

It's a bummer that you have to deal with this.

Thats an idea. I take pics of bout every knife I make. Just not showing the straight blade. Something to think on.

Unless the blade is edge quenched or the spine was torched, I think it would take a considerate amount of force to take a permanent bend like that. Also, shipping damage is not likely as the customer would probably claim straight away that the package/box was damaged.

The spine was clay coated. I do that on all of my 26C3 blades. Even still hard to figure.

 

[Hengelo_77]

I can imagin you just have to know what happened.
Tell the guy you'll replace the knife no matter what he did with/to it but only if he honestly tells you how it happened
Tell him you want to know to be able to make better knives

 

[Danke42]

He had it just the one day. He did not notice any damage on the box and no pics of the packaging. We've shipped thousands of knives and only had one damaged in transit. It was run over (which is why my mind went there for this one) and actually had tire tracks on the packaging! It cracked the handle material (bone), which I replaced for the customer. He was a Govt trapper in Co I believe. Anyhoo, Knife ships in the sheath and wrapped in bubble wrap. Since that inicdent handles are double bubble wrapped and then in a Fed EX box.We've had surprisingly few shipping deals for the actual amount of knives shipped.

The thing about cardboard boxes is you can run them over and they spring back. So someone might not pick up on that (or the exploded bubble wrap).

 

[Horsewright]

The thing about cardboard boxes is you can run them over and they spring back. So someone might not pick up on that (or the exploded bubble wrap).

Possibly but these are flat boxes so I’m not sure they would spring back. I think there would of been some damage to see.

 

[Danke42]

Possibly but these are flat boxes so I’m not sure they would spring back. I think there would of been some damage to see.

I get to deal with this at times. What happens is someone says the box was fine and sends a picture. I look at the picture and see the damage and point it out, & then they say "well it didn't look that bad". It sure would be hard to bend it without popping all the bubble wrap.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

I get to deal with this at times. What happens is someone says the box was fine and sends a picture. I look at the picture and see the damage and point it out, & then they say "well it didn't look that bad". It sure would be hard to bend it without popping all the bubble wrap.

The thing is....that shipping box would have to bend probably over 45 degrees.
That wouldn't happen just running it over on the road. Maybe in soft earth/mud. But that would probably show wear on the box

I wonder if it was on top of other boxes, being supported,like in the back of the shipping truck and then if someone stood on it, could it bend?

 

[Lorien]

Thanks guys for all your input!


He had it just the one day. He did not notice any damage on the box and no pics of the packaging. We've shipped thousands of knives and only had one damaged in transit. It was run over (which is why my mind went there for this one) and actually had tire tracks on the packaging! It cracked the handle material (bone), which I replaced for the customer. He was a Govt trapper in Co I believe. Anyhoo, Knife ships in the sheath and wrapped in bubble wrap. Since that inicdent handles are double bubble wrapped and then in a Fed EX box.We've had surprisingly few shipping deals for the actual amount of knives shipped.

Not really seeing that. Done that too many times (unintentional dismounts) my ownself with lack of said bow. Last time I landed on my pistol and that certainly did not bend. Wife won't let me ride the young ones anymore.


Thank you sir. Happen to know a guy that has some scrap leather around to pad a vise with!

Yeah I was kinda pleased with the heat treat my ownself, knowing that the edge is that hard and the clay coating made the diff. I'd of told ya it was purely decorative on a little itty bitty knife this size, I mean its not a katana. In the original pics of this knife and sheath before damage that is a riata, (braided rawhide rope) that the knife is up against. That reata (see what I did there edamacating ya, either spelling is correct), is 3/8 " diameter to give ya a size comparison of the knife.

Yeah I don't even ask on broken tips anymore. Just fix em.


They were worth more if they had bent on an enemy sentry's rib!

Hoss is the man! Lil itty bitty bend at a time and dang if it didn't straighten right out. Took some time.

Ya know I've been thinking about this, a lot and I've just got too many of these out there. Certainly this wouldn't be the first guy to throw a knife and sheath in the back pocket if thats what happened.


Ye sir!

do you know what hardness the soft zone is?

 

[Horsewright]

^^^ Some interesting thoughts. Yeah we just don't know on the packaging.

Getting stood on is a possibility I hadn't considered.

I don't know the spine hardness. The blade itself is springy, ya cann flex it pretty good and it goes back to normal.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Well, the summary is

As far as the customer goes:
Something "happened".
We don't know what "happened".
You will replace the knife.

As far as you:
Straighten the tip in a vise and make a shop knife out of it.
You may want to carry it for a while and see if the blade has an issue with bending.


Just a side thought - Has Uri Geller taken a job with the post office?

 

[SharpBits]

Here is one other possible way it could have been damaged.
Those who have not worked at UPS/USPS/FedEx/Etc. may not know that packages are unloaded from the truck and they go on to a conveyer belt which feeds into other belts and chutes and so on. Thousands of packages of all weights and sizes moving fairly quickly on said belt. When there is pile up, think foggy busy highway, those packages try to keep moving until the belt is shut down. Tons of packages hit that roadblock. Something small could easily be damaged in such a pile up. No tire marks from that, just the normal marks from the belt. A flat box might mostly spring back, but a tube will show the bend more clearly.

 

[Danke42]

 

[Danke42]

Well, the summary is

As far as the customer goes:
Something "happened".
We don't know what "happened".
You will replace the knife.

As far as you:
Straighten the tip in a vise and make a shop knife out of it.
You may want to carry it for a while and see if the blade has an issue with bending.


Just a side thought - Has Uri Geller taken a job with the post office?