CBSA has banned Flippers

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After waiting 6 months for the Massdrop Ferrum Forge Mordax, CBSA has seized the package. The surprising thing to me, was they stated reason was "Knife with index flicker" saying under Article 84(1) criminal code that it is illegal. However, there is no mention of that in the actual law. I knew they were coming down hard on what they deemed "gravity knives" while how they had greatly misconstrued what that term meant, gravity knives are illegal under article 84(1) of the criminal code. However, now they're citing a term that isn't even in the Canadian criminal code... disappointing to say the least. @Critter

-Gideons
 
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You really thought a button release blade was good to go?

The official reasoning had nothing to do with the button lock (however that may of played a role). I knew it was going to be a risk, but I've never had a package seized before. However, the knife is perfectly legal to own in Canada, so I assumed (or hoped) there would be no problems. Just seemed a little audacious to cite the criminal code then not even use a term that was in the criminal code.
 
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Do enough people in Canada care enough to do something about it?

Probably not. It was brought before parliament, however the wording of that original appeal was poorly written. The ruling made had not even approached the problem, so it was clear parliament didn't understand the actual problem.
 
This is what I found.

Paragraph 18 (a)

Note: Knives that have a 'thumb stud' attached to the blade of the knife, that is independent of the handle (not protruding from the handle in the closed or folded position), and that open automatically by applying pressure to the thumb stud, do not generally meet the above definition of a prohibited weapon, and as such do not generally fall under TI 9898.00.00. However, if such a knife is found to also open by gravity or by the application of centrifugal force alone, it may still be considered to be prohibited. The misuse of knives may nonetheless be punishable under other laws.


I got few knives seized in the past(got them all back after shipping them back to sellers and then back to me again) but now get knives shipped with blade removed from scales and have zero issues.
 
In the past month I had a package stopped containing two thumb stud openers at Richmond, Vancouver.
After speaking to someone on the phone at CBSA they told me that basically, any folding knife with anything on the blade or body of the knife that will assist with opening by gravity would be confiscated. This would appear to widen the meaning of Gravity opener to include everything with a thumb stud, flipper, spydy hole etc.
I explained that I could buy the same knife and even assisted openers, at a local store not far from me, they said it didn't matter - It is purely the importation that is illegal.
A few weeks later I received the letters in the mail telling me the knives would be destroyed - Umm, yeaaaahhhh.
 
Look, you have a little sympathy from me, but dozens of threads over the last three years all stating that CBSA is playing their own game, by their own rules, and that you enter it at your own risk, what else were you expecting? To make it clear, they are not using the Criminal Code as the basis for their regulation, they have used their power to create guidelines to do this on their own. This is how they work, they are not beholden to the standard judicial and parliamentary chain of power. The parliamentary ruling only addressed what they could address, its my understanding that parliament had little power within that situation. How it was handled didn't help, but its outside their purview regardless.
Anyone sending any knife over the Canadian border is taking a risk. Trying to use the law to your advantage will not work because CBSA is not beholden to the law. Every attempt to reign in the powers of the CBSA has met with limited public support, even the latest one. Even when they were grossly in violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, they mumbled something about security and everyone sort of lost interest.
Until you zoom out to a much wider view, this will always seem silly and illogical. If however you look at knives as an inconvenient consequence of the wider system, and an accident rather than malice, then it starts to make a lot more sense. Not at all in a conspiratorial way, when you look at how powers, responsibilities and limits are divided up in Canada then the CBSA's weirdness makes a lot more sense.
 
Look, you have a little sympathy from me, but dozens of threads over the last three years all stating that CBSA is playing their own game, by their own rules, and that you enter it at your own risk, what else were you expecting? To make it clear, they are not using the Criminal Code as the basis for their regulation, they have used their power to create guidelines to do this on their own. This is how they work, they are not beholden to the standard judicial and parliamentary chain of power. The parliamentary ruling only addressed what they could address, its my understanding that parliament had little power within that situation. How it was handled didn't help, but its outside their purview regardless.
Anyone sending any knife over the Canadian border is taking a risk. Trying to use the law to your advantage will not work because CBSA is not beholden to the law. Every attempt to reign in the powers of the CBSA has met with limited public support, even the latest one. Even when they were grossly in violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, they mumbled something about security and everyone sort of lost interest.
Until you zoom out to a much wider view, this will always seem silly and illogical. If however you look at knives as an inconvenient consequence of the wider system, and an accident rather than malice, then it starts to make a lot more sense. Not at all in a conspiratorial way, when you look at how powers, responsibilities and limits are divided up in Canada then the CBSA's weirdness makes a lot more sense.
The point of this thread was, the official reason for the seizure was based on the criminal code and not their own regulations.
 
Border Agencies have too many liberties. I tried importing something that was sold in Germany, was perfectly legal and harmless and they seized it and forwarded the case to the courts which tried to convict me. It turned into a two year legal back and forth handled by an attorney, then the entire case was dropped and the item send to me. The initial argument of the border agent "It's seized because we asked our expert who is familiar with the item on a HOBBY basis." even after I showed them half a dozen pages with local ads for the item and legal definitions.
Sorry all you Canadians have to deal with it. I got burned once, so I avoid importing as much as I can. I haven't bought a knife outside the EU because of it.
 
Border Agencies have too many liberties. I tried importing something that was sold in Germany, was perfectly legal and harmless and they seized it and forwarded the case to the courts which tried to convict me. It turned into a two year legal back and forth handled by an attorney, then the entire case was dropped and the item send to me. The initial argument of the border agent "It's seized because we asked our expert who is familiar with the item on a HOBBY basis." even after I showed them half a dozen pages with local ads for the item and legal definitions.
Sorry all you Canadians have to deal with it. I got burned once, so I avoid importing as much as I can. I haven't bought a knife outside the EU because of it.
Damn, sorry to hear that. After this I think I will be only buying knives from within Canada.
 
The point of this thread was, the official reason for the seizure was based on the criminal code and not their own regulations.
So a functionary who has no official looking guidelines that can be sent to the public needs a form letter that most people will accept at face value, so they chuck in the Regs that are publicly available. Probably has that document open in office all day with form-fills built in.
CBSA doesn't need to give a reason. "Because we said so" is good enough, and they do not have to publish their working documents to the public. So you got a reason. Probably not The reason, just something that would make most people go away. That sucks, it really does, but were you expecting an over-worked, under-resourced officer to take the time to explain exactly why your knife was bad? Someone that probably doesn't have good guidelines to work from themselves, but doesn't want to let something through in case it gets audited by another inspector? I'm almost certain they have to justify why they should send it on, rather than why to hold it, either officially or unofficially. Screwed either way.

Last I checked the best we had to work from was a tribunal decision on flippers, not their official working policy. I doubt we will see that without a court case, and even if we do, within weeks it would be changed.
 
The official reasoning had nothing to do with the button lock (however that may of played a role). I knew it was going to be a risk, but I've never had a package seized before. However, the knife is perfectly legal to own in Canada, so I assumed (or hoped) there would be no problems. Just seemed a little audacious to cite the criminal code then not even use a term that was in the criminal code.
I saw that knife on drop and read the description; it was an immediate red flag. Even without the flipper tab this sounds like a problem.

can be opened and closed with a press on the button and a simple flick of the wrist
 
Perhaps I am incorrectly interpreting this, but, it would appear the Kershaw wave opening feature would not make it past inspection?
 
Yup life was better with Harpo. I don't think the knife situation will change under this government, and will likely get worse.
Remember the ATT...
You cant have pot AND knives AND guns !
 
Thank you for the link!

The thing I find interesting is it appears the Court seems to say the easy opening knife is more dangerous than a fixed blade knife that is always at the ready ... or am reading between the lines?
A fixed knife is expected to be more visible than a folder.

So the idea that the knife can be hidden on your person and then opened with one hand from concealment is the fear.
 
It's actually the same regulation scheme as currently enforced with guns. If it can be concealed, then it's prohib/restricted. Hence, a .22 pistol is a PITA to purchase and own, whereas some semi .308 rifles or 12 Ga semi shotties are unrestricted, 'cos they are big and you can't hide them under your touque, eh?
CBSA just copycat guns regulations, with all their flaws and nonsense. They do seem to be more ignorant and bureaucratic than the gun regulators, which is quite a feat to achieve.
 
A fixed knife is expected to be more visible than a folder.

So the idea that the knife can be hidden on your person and then opened with one hand from concealment is the fear.

Yup, same thing here. 4.6 inch fixed blade open public carry is fine, 2 inch one handed opening locking folder is evil.
 
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