CFK Knife update and company history
- Thread starter Last_Ditch
- Start date
So just out of curiosity why don't you list that you are representing CFK Cutlery in your about profile on this board?
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Not hunting witches - or Zombies for that matter. Hunting very basic information about CFK/iPak: where are the knives made? Communication is good.
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04/03/2015 eBay listing says, among other things:
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No shortage of answers. But consistency?
Witch hunt? If you think this is a Bladeforums witch hunt, you have not been paying much attention since you joined in 2008.
There is only one problem with the "Knife Makers Guild in England." It does not exist according to this guy. Maybe DrBulldog can enlighten us who the "Knife Makers Guild in England" happens to be?
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He reports that the language refers to a knife made by someone else as described by someone not speaking for CFK/iPak at the time.
THIS STATEMENT WAS MADE BY DOUG WILSON.
Doug Wilson is a kydex maker and makes kydex for a lot of people and has done many brands. I met him a year ago and asked him to make some kydex for some of our knives. He has become quite popular and a lot of people like his style of kydex sheaths. He has his own connections and has had his designs made in England. We have not made knives for him. This statement is Doug's statement.
He goes out a lot on hikes and weekend bushcrafting trips and has done some videos for us on certain knives. He is now a good friend and a great sheath maker.
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I am interested exactly where the Essex, England factory is located. Could either Last_Ditch or DrBulldog care to give a street address on this facility? Also could either of you give the address of your finishing facility in Oregon?
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The problem is not information, at least at a moderate level of abstraction. The problem is the inconsistency in the information given.
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......
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I have edited this post with additions in red font. I did so with the intent to clarify random thoughts that I apparently couldn't get people to understand. My brain runs faster than my fingers and so, my thoughts and meaning got lost to slow typing. Sorry. I have tried to make my post a bit more understandable...I hope it is more suitable reading now.
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What I don't see is a lot of YT reviews on this company that aren't done by CFK or from someone questionably related/fanboy to them/the company.
I searched YouTube using the search filter words "iPak Knife Reviews" and after 5 pages of videos, only found these two examples:
[video=youtube;pXgsFY4M-nI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXgsFY4M-nI[/video]
[video=youtube;_xvicPSn364]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xvicPSn364[/video]
However, in using the search term "CFK knife reviews"...a HELLofAlot more show up that don't appear to be from CFK, nor anyone 'seemingly' related or affiliated with them or their business. I have watched about a dozen videos varying the intensity of 'abuse' of the knives. They were of different styles and configurations.
I'm no one special, in fact I'm about as "ordinary" as a guy can be. I'm the outdoorsman who happens to know how to use my blades in my craft. I have no vested interest in helping or hurting anyone on this forum and I think my post submissions are more than evident to that statement.
I see a few people questioning CFK's business practices and/or claims in sales. In light of that, I went to their website and then ebay to check out some of the ads for different blades. I wanted to see what the fuss is all about.
On their website it states:
WELCOME TO CUSTOM FORGED KNIVES (CFK)
CFK Cutlery Co. is a privately owned Knife manufacturer for the CFK and iPak Survival Brands, and was founded in 2005, to ensure the highest quality knives are made at the best possible prices. We have been through the knife making process, and after years of careful research and know-how, have found what it takes to make the best possible handmade knife at a fair price. J. Black & J. Baker handle the marketing and advertising for the company.
The blades and parts of the knife are handmade and manufactured in England, the components and blades are imported to the United States where contracted knife makers, assemble the knives. The buffalo and cowhide sheaths are made from left-over leather we source from the Italian handbag industry, in Italy.
Our entire inventory of knives are sold WHOLESALE, on eBay, direct to our customers. We are an online knife company with no dealers, middlemen, or retailer markups.
Now I can agree that this might not be what was said previously around the web. It's what's being said now. Persons on this forum have challenged the company's ads, addresses, claims and verbiage on the few websites they control [their home site as well as on ebay]. I'll not argue what "was" versus what "is" because from what I'm seeing on YT, on ebay and on their website seems to coincide with each other.
On their ebay pages, it also says:
NOTE: We hand make all their knives and do not use any CNC machining and our knives are not perfect looking knives. As a result these knives will have handmade qualities, unique characteristics to them, that make them unique.
----
One looks at that sentence and comes to two conclusions:
1. The whole "speaking in the third person" thing comes to view...and contains sentence inconsistencies. however, I don't see them boasting a PhD in English, nor is it required to sell wares on ebay.
2. It could be that the description was written by more than one person, possibly cut and paste to a "final page" and those inconsistencies got 'missed' or 'overlooked' in the proofreading when they made their "cut and paste" page for sales.
-----
I'd also like to point out that "hand made" is not as 'inclusive' as it used to be - it's more 'subjective' by today's 'modern' standards. To people my age [45] and older [the custom knife makers here, as one example] the 'meanings' are lost in time. WE tend to think "hand made" means exactly that....from beginning to end - scavenging a few pounds of iron ore from around the train tracks, taking it home and smelting it, hand forging it.....blah blah blah. The "new" generations just don't see it that way. They see - "assembled by hand" [not by machine or automation] and that's "ok" with them, especially if the item is affordable.
What they don't see is: I make a blade by stamping it out of steel, 'he' [second employee/contractor] makes the handle scales, she [third employee/contractor] puts the handles on and finishes the blade....If I use a machine stamp out blades from a sheet or bar of hand forged [by a mechanical hammer] steel, they are not exactly "hand made." But it is still "hand made" by many standards.
Liken it to this:
In other forum conversations we tend to call these people "rules lawyers." They would debate the sh&* out of a particular rule.....they challenge the 'letter' of the rule, versus the "intent" or "spirit" of how that rule is interpreted - and what it meant to them or 'how' it "should" be enforced.
----
This whole bickering back and forth about CFK/business practices/challenges - brings some recent memories to bare:
I'm reminded about the "apology video" Dave Canterbury put out as to what he did/why he [apparently] lied on his resume to get on "Dual Survival." I'm also reminded of the constant bickering about Jesse Ventura's completion of SEAL training.
In both cases, Dave and Jesse's credentials were challenged. In one case, it was proven true [Dave's]. Apparently Dave said he was an Army Sniper when in fact, he wasn't. Something about having completed Sniper School but wasn't actually designated as one. When applying for Dual Survival, he apparently said he was and got caught...thus "fired" by the Discovery Channel.
Her's a good analogy -
My good friend is the SWAT Sharpshooter instructor for my department. I've run the course and by all accounts [and scores] I have unofficially, but successfully completed the course with very high marks. Am I SWAT? No. Am I a Sharpshooter? No. Am I a Designated Marksman? NO. But by the absolute terms of completing that course [with the scores I obtained] I could call myself a "Sniper/Sharpshooter" simply because I meet the physical criteria that makes the definition....but I'm not. I'm a "good shot" by any other standard.
--------
I do also, however, notice a trend here.....
What I see, is a few high-end / expensive knife makers having a sh&* fit about knives that are potential competition [per se]....knives that may-or may not be "copies" but certainly are [up to] hundreds of dollars less to purchase. They may be justified in their gripes, may be not...but there's a special market - a "niche" for the expensive blades they build - and sell for upwards of $2 thousand. Obviously people will buy them and Hell...more power to them.
but the fact remains that if there's a person/company who sells something cheaper, those who are the competition have a sh&* fit and often engage in a smear campaign. It happens in politics, religions and in the manufacturing world. This is where the "rules lawyers" tend to step in. They try to find the slightest bit of fault with something the competition says or does. This is what I happen to see in the barrage of "liar, liar, pants on fire" commentary up there ^^ . I'm not necessarily saying that's the case here, but it does appear that way to me. I'm also not saying that anything posted way up there ^^ is wrong. The claims made by the several makers here could very well be true....and I also noted that CFK people have not answered certain questions posed to them. I think they should be addressed as clearly as possible.
I have no adverse opinion on what I see on the CFK web pages I can find. By what I DO see AT THIS POINT IN TIME is that:
1. Ebay rates them as a top seller. You don't get to that status by being a company of jerks.
2. Currently, they have 14.550 positive...18 Neutral...and 9 negative feedback opinions on ebay. You don't get a 99.9% positive feedback rating by "screwing" your customers.
3. Reading their ebay ads seems to be less the "conspiracy of businessmen" and more like a "lack of a proofreading" issue.
4. There appears to be some diversion in what "he said" versus what "he said." For the love of everything Holy...really? It seems to me that they might - MIGHT - have too many people speaking on behalf of the company. Two of them having the same first name perhaps - which, at best, makes it confusing for customers and perspective buyers - but there's no crime in that. A simple suggestion could be, "hey....only one person needs to speak or write on behalf of the company. That will be 'so-and-so'.....and that's up to the company owner. THAT will eliminate most, if not all, further confusion on the matter....but inevitably, that's up to THEM.
------
That doesn't mean that CFK makes crap knives either.
CFK....send me a large bushcraft blade and I'll video review it. This will be a "no holds barred" review though. If I like it, I'll say it. If I hate it, I'll say that as well. I'll even send it back so it can't be said "Oh well....he got a free knife, so............"
......but this shouldn't even have to happen, given all the video reviews that currently exist.
-----------
What I don't see is a lot of YT reviews on this company that aren't done by CFK or from someone questionably related/fanboy to them/the company.
I searched YouTube using the search filter words "iPak Knife Reviews" and after 5 pages of videos, only found these two examples:
[video=youtube;pXgsFY4M-nI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXgsFY4M-nI[/video]
[video=youtube;_xvicPSn364]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xvicPSn364[/video]
However, in using the search term "CFK knife reviews"...a HELLofAlot more show up that don't appear to be from CFK, nor anyone 'seemingly' related or affiliated with them or their business. I have watched about a dozen videos varying the intensity of 'abuse' of the knives. They were of different styles and configurations.
I'm no one special, in fact I'm about as "ordinary" as a guy can be. I'm the outdoorsman who happens to know how to use my blades in my craft. I have no vested interest in helping or hurting anyone on this forum and I think my post submissions are more than evident to that statement.
I see a few people questioning CFK's business practices and/or claims in sales. In light of that, I went to their website and then ebay to check out some of the ads for different blades. I wanted to see what the fuss is all about.
On their website it states:
WELCOME TO CUSTOM FORGED KNIVES (CFK)
CFK Cutlery Co. is a privately owned Knife manufacturer for the CFK and iPak Survival Brands, and was founded in 2005, to ensure the highest quality knives are made at the best possible prices. We have been through the knife making process, and after years of careful research and know-how, have found what it takes to make the best possible handmade knife at a fair price. J. Black & J. Baker handle the marketing and advertising for the company.
The blades and parts of the knife are handmade and manufactured in England, the components and blades are imported to the United States where contracted knife makers, assemble the knives. The buffalo and cowhide sheaths are made from left-over leather we source from the Italian handbag industry, in Italy.
Our entire inventory of knives are sold WHOLESALE, on eBay, direct to our customers. We are an online knife company with no dealers, middlemen, or retailer markups.
Now I can agree that this might not be what was said previously around the web. It's what's being said now. Persons on this forum have challenged the company's ads, addresses, claims and verbiage on the few websites they control [their home site as well as on ebay]. I'll not argue what "was" versus what "is" because from what I'm seeing on YT, on ebay and on their website seems to coincide with each other.
On their ebay pages, it also says:
NOTE: We hand make all their knives and do not use any CNC machining and our knives are not perfect looking knives. As a result these knives will have handmade qualities, unique characteristics to them, that make them unique.
----
One looks at that sentence and comes to two conclusions:
1. The whole "speaking in the third person" thing comes to view...and contains sentence inconsistencies. however, I don't see them boasting a PhD in English, nor is it required to sell wares on ebay.
2. It could be that the description was written by more than one person, possibly cut and paste to a "final page" and those inconsistencies got 'missed' or 'overlooked' in the proofreading when they made their "cut and paste" page for sales.
-----
I'd also like to point out that "hand made" is not as 'inclusive' as it used to be - it's more 'subjective' by today's 'modern' standards. To people my age [45] and older [the custom knife makers here, as one example] the 'meanings' are lost in time. WE tend to think "hand made" means exactly that....from beginning to end - scavenging a few pounds of iron ore from around the train tracks, taking it home and smelting it, hand forging it.....blah blah blah. The "new" generations just don't see it that way. They see - "assembled by hand" [not by machine or automation] and that's "ok" with them, especially if the item is affordable.
What they don't see is: I make a blade by stamping it out of steel, 'he' [second employee/contractor] makes the handle scales, she [third employee/contractor] puts the handles on and finishes the blade....If I use a machine stamp out blades from a sheet or bar of hand forged [by a mechanical hammer] steel, they are not exactly "hand made." But it is still "hand made" by many standards.
Liken it to this:
In other forum conversations we tend to call these people "rules lawyers." They would debate the sh&* out of a particular rule.....they challenge the 'letter' of the rule, versus the "intent" or "spirit" of how that rule is interpreted - and what it meant to them or 'how' it "should" be enforced.
----
This whole bickering back and forth about CFK/business practices/challenges - brings some recent memories to bare:
I'm reminded about the "apology video" Dave Canterbury put out as to what he did/why he [apparently] lied on his resume to get on "Dual Survival." I'm also reminded of the constant bickering about Jesse Ventura's completion of SEAL training.
In both cases, Dave and Jesse's credentials were challenged. In one case, it was proven true [Dave's]. Apparently Dave said he was an Army Sniper when in fact, he wasn't. Something about having completed Sniper School but wasn't actually designated as one. When applying for Dual Survival, he apparently said he was and got caught...thus "fired" by the Discovery Channel.
Her's a good analogy -
My good friend is the SWAT Sharpshooter instructor for my department. I've run the course and by all accounts [and scores] I have unofficially, but successfully completed the course with very high marks. Am I SWAT? No. Am I a Sharpshooter? No. Am I a Designated Marksman? NO. But by the absolute terms of completing that course [with the scores I obtained] I could call myself a "Sniper/Sharpshooter" simply because I meet the physical criteria that makes the definition....but I'm not. I'm a "good shot" by any other standard.
--------
I do also, however, notice a trend here.....
What I see, is a few high-end / expensive knife makers having a sh&* fit about knives that are potential competition [per se]....knives that may-or may not be "copies" but certainly are [up to] hundreds of dollars less to purchase. They may be justified in their gripes, may be not...but there's a special market - a "niche" for the expensive blades they build - and sell for upwards of $2 thousand. Obviously people will buy them and Hell...more power to them.
but the fact remains that if there's a person/company who sells something cheaper, those who are the competition have a sh&* fit and often engage in a smear campaign. It happens in politics, religions and in the manufacturing world. This is where the "rules lawyers" tend to step in. They try to find the slightest bit of fault with something the competition says or does. This is what I happen to see in the barrage of "liar, liar, pants on fire" commentary up there ^^ . I'm not necessarily saying that's the case here, but it does appear that way to me. I'm also not saying that anything posted way up there ^^ is wrong. The claims made by the several makers here could very well be true....and I also noted that CFK people have not answered certain questions posed to them. I think they should be addressed as clearly as possible.
I have no adverse opinion on what I see on the CFK web pages I can find. By what I DO see AT THIS POINT IN TIME is that:
1. Ebay rates them as a top seller. You don't get to that status by being a company of jerks.
2. Currently, they have 14.550 positive...18 Neutral...and 9 negative feedback opinions on ebay. You don't get a 99.9% positive feedback rating by "screwing" your customers.
3. Reading their ebay ads seems to be less the "conspiracy of businessmen" and more like a "lack of a proofreading" issue.
4. There appears to be some diversion in what "he said" versus what "he said." For the love of everything Holy...really? It seems to me that they might - MIGHT - have too many people speaking on behalf of the company. Two of them having the same first name perhaps - which, at best, makes it confusing for customers and perspective buyers - but there's no crime in that. A simple suggestion could be, "hey....only one person needs to speak or write on behalf of the company. That will be 'so-and-so'.....and that's up to the company owner. THAT will eliminate most, if not all, further confusion on the matter....but inevitably, that's up to THEM.
------
That doesn't mean that CFK makes crap knives either.
CFK....send me a large bushcraft blade and I'll video review it. This will be a "no holds barred" review though. If I like it, I'll say it. If I hate it, I'll say that as well. I'll even send it back so it can't be said "Oh well....he got a free knife, so............"
......but this shouldn't even have to happen, given all the video reviews that currently exist.
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- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,194
Say what?
[QUOTE=CFK....send me a large bushcraft blade and I'll video review it. This will be a "no holds barred" review though. If I like it, I'll say it. If I hate it, I'll say that as well. I'll even send it back so it can't be said "Oh well....he got a free knife, so............"
What is your address for the knife to review?
What is your address for the knife to review?
CFK....send me a large bushcraft blade and I'll video review it. This will be a "no holds barred" review though. If I like it said:....[holy crap!]
I sent you an email via your profile page. I included mine in the message.
Druid189 - I never got an email from you. Please send your address to me at jbaker@customforgedknives.com