CFK Knife update and company history

[Alamor]

Well, I'm not a metallurgist and can't make any "empirical, scientifically proven" claims - but I have had knives made in Pakistan - "had" being the active word. They were absolute crap that I couldn't get rid of fast enough. You couldn't GIVE me a knife made in Pakistan, let alone get me to spend good money on one ever again. Put it this way - If I won one in a GAW right now, I'd ask the provider to destroy it before it even reached my door. I'd never even think of flipping it into my own GAW because I wouldn't impose that kind of pain on anyone.

Now, that being said - The knife I'm reviewing IN NO WAY resembles anything I've ever had the misfortune of handling from Pakistan. From what I can tell so far, the steel used in this blade is pretty damned tough and the [factory] edge has held up nicely to what I've done so far. I've done less testing/abuse to the Pakistani blades and damaged them almost instantly. This one [from CFK] doesn't even have marks on it and among other tasks, I've been chopping through a thick walnut limb. The fit on the handle scales alone tells me that care went into assembling it....though there are some things [overall] about this blade I'm not overly keen on and would change [if I had that power/influence].

Still...I'm trying not to reveal too much here, I will give full and unbiased opinions in the videos. I will say this though - I do not think this knife was made in Pakistan.

I look forward to watching the videos. Will you post the links here after you upload them please.

 

[druid189]

I look forward to watching the videos. Will you post the links here after you upload them please.

absolutely

 

[buckfynn]

Still...I'm trying not to reveal too much here, I will give full and unbiased opinions in the videos. I will say this though - I do not think this knife was made in Pakistan.

Please post the source for the proof you have that the knife wasn't made in Pakistan?

Otherwise it is irrelevant where you "think" the knife might have been made.

 

[Alamor]

Please post the source for the proof you have that the knife wasn't made in Pakistan?

Otherwise it is irrelevant where you "think" the knife might have been made.

It seems like he wasn't trying to prove its origin, rather giving his opinion. I'm a new member here and I can see everyone's point of view. But why are there so many hostile people when someone voices their opinion?

 

[druid189]

Please post the source for the proof you have that the knife wasn't made in Pakistan?

Otherwise it is irrelevant where you "think" the knife might have been made.

Ok there mister 17 posts...until you start contributing more than 1 post a month for the past 4 years....just go sit in your corner. While there:

Please post the source for the proof that the knife was made there.....and not some random, dark picture that only depicts a blade on a table and nothing around it to prove otherwise.

Until then, where you "think" it was made is irrelevant.

It seems like he wasn't trying to prove its origin, rather giving his opinion. I'm a new member here and I can see everyone's point of view. But why are there so many hostile people when someone voices their opinion?

I'm not trying to prove origin. I have my opinions like anyone else. And this forum has been inundated by some fanboys/haters/malcontents who think their opinion is the end-all of a conversation.

There's drama because some custom/high end knife makers made some claims about the steel....got pissed off because they claimed there was "former cloning" of designs....mistakes made as far as CFK formerly using "trademarked/copyrighted" names and such - and they aren't happy that CFK won't divulge the GPS address or a DNA sample or other business information/manufacturer locations like they want. Oh boo hoo......

I don't pander to their bologna and merit a blade for what it is....not what they think it should be. and they don't like it. Like I care....

 

[buckfynn]

It seems like he wasn't trying to prove its origin, rather giving his opinion. I'm a new member here and I can see everyone's point of view. But why are there so many hostile people when someone voices their opinion?

Mr Druid inferred or he "thinks" his gratis knife from CFK was not made in Pakistan. Why do you think it is wrong for me to question or ask for proof of his statement of the knife not being made in Pakistan? I was more than reasonable by asking Mr. Druid to validate or verify his statement which he has failed to do.

But in Mr. Druid's own way he already has answered my question.

I'm not trying to prove origin.

 

[buckfynn]

Ok there mister 17 posts...until you start contributing more than 1 post a month for the past 4 years....just go sit in your corner. While there:

Please post the source for the proof that the knife was made there.....and not some random, dark picture that only depicts a blade on a table and nothing around it to prove otherwise.

Until then, where you "think" it was made is irrelevant.

I will take your response as you can't back up your statement of the CFK not being made in Pakistan. If you or anyone else can ever come up with an answer of the true country of origin of CFK knives I will be here waiting.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Well this has certainly piqued my interest in the company and their wares.

Druid, I'll be interested in your review as well. Did they include a sheath? I'm not sure about their leather. They say that it's excess leather that they source from an Italian bag maker. I'm cool with that as long as it's veg tanned. In any case, replacing it would be easy enough.

I like to give a company the benefit of the doubt. That said, I've been around long enough to see that benefit ill placed. Can't hold others actions against the next guy. I guess I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[druid189]

I will take your response as you can't back up your statement of the CFK not being made in Pakistan. If you or anyone else can ever come up with an answer of the true country of origin of CFK knives I will be here waiting.

Likewise, I will take your response to mean you can't either. Your initial post is worded in a manner in which you are predetermined to believe they are. OK then, prove it. Otherwise, YOUR post is even more irrelevant than mine was. I have possession of this particular knife and compared it to previously owned Pakistani blades of similar design and they are nothing alike. The blade I'm testing right now is nowhere near the "damned-near-perfect-quality" of custom maker's blades seen on these forums - but it isn't the "crap" you are alluding to either. I've owned "absolute crap" knives - and this doesn't [at this time] appear to be one of them.

This is either your "troll account" or you are simply a shit-stirer. Either way, you have still not provided your proof the blade WAS made in Pakistan...so sit there and pout all you want until you CAN prove it.

Well this has certainly piqued my interest in the company and their wares.

Druid, I'll be interested in your review as well. Did they include a sheath? I'm not sure about their leather. They say that it's excess leather that they source from an Italian bag maker. I'm cool with that as long as it's veg tanned. In any case, replacing it would be easy enough.

I like to give a company the benefit of the doubt. That said, I've been around long enough to see that benefit ill placed. Can't hold others actions against the next guy. I guess I'm cautiously optimistic.

Omega...
Yes there is a sheath and I'm including that in the review as well. I even made an addendum video on some of the initial points I forgot to mention. That will be added as well.

The 1st video segment I have begins with the unboxing and shows everything included in the shipping container. I've even left my "goofs" alone and only added text into the video to correct what I misspoke [for instance, I mistakenly called my Dozier Design a "Camilius" instead of KABAR....DOH!!] I have another video where I'm attacking a log of [relatively] freshly cut [3 week old] Walnut...with and without gloves. I'm not quite finished with that Walnut though, I thought of something else to get on video...

Between work and local weather, this is going to take some time. While I do appreciate everyone's patience, I'd rather be known for making accurate assessments, than 'rushed judgments.' I took the company to task [more or less] and they willingly met the challenge - and rather than using "knee-jerk reactions" or "armchair quarterback" assumptions [like some people in here]....I'll hold off until I'm done to decide the inevitable.

Is the steel made in Pakistan? I have absolutely no clue - but in comparing this to those blades that I know were, I seriously seriously doubt it. If it is? Well then...the Pakistanis finally made a D2 steel worth using and I'm not at all ashamed in making that statement.

...and I can completely agree with 'cautious optimism.' In my initial "offer" I stated my intent: That whether or not I loved it or hated it, I would speak the truth.

I will always give a company the benefit of the doubt...especially if I'm able to find a lot of reviews about them [or the wares they sell]. I never heard of this company until I saw it here [on the boards]. All the bit**ing and moaning caused me to seek them out on Ebay. I looked around Ebay, their website, read what the nay-sayers posted here...and still decided to give them a shot.

This particular company has a "better than +" track record according to EBay and in reading some of those reviews, I felt the scathing commentary on this board to be unreasonably hateful. Even after reading the previously linked content [in other threads], I'm still of the opinion that people are going to hate something that is a direct threat to their own creations. Some of them are looking to specifically give them a disreputable name. Why? One reason is plainly obvious to me - Why spend up to one or two thousand dollars on a custom knife when I can get something similar for around $80? I concede these custom makers pour their heart and soul into their blades and are probably worth every penny they are asking.....but I [and a lot of others] are simply not willing to pay the exorbitant amounts they are asking. That means they might not be able to sell as many as they hope. Having a company undercut them by hundreds of dollars per blade is a threat to them and using "any means necessary" to discourage a purchase is simply unacceptable to me.

Now, if it turns out that the blade I have is absolute crap, I'll say it and not think twice about it. CFK is already aware of that and yet they still sent it to me. That's got to say something abut them and their trust in their products.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

I'm not sure I agree with the custom knife maker having an agenda and trying anything to discredit this company. I have a lot of knife maker friends and I can't see even one trying to destroy a company to get ahead. I just don't see it.

I think your view is otherwise spot on. I've never purchased a Paki knife, but my understanding is that you could tell pretty quickly if the knife they shipped you was similar quality.

I hope the first paragraph comes across in the light under which it was written. I consider you a friend as much as the knife makers I brought up. It would really be something if this company was on the up and up. The prices amount to the price of a blank and I'll be first in line to try their product depending on your findings. Take whatever time is necessary.

 

[druid189]

I'm not sure I agree with the custom knife maker having an agenda and trying anything to discredit this company. I have a lot of knife maker friends and I can't see even one trying to destroy a company to get ahead. I just don't see it.

I think your view is otherwise spot on. I've never purchased a Paki knife, but my understanding is that you could tell pretty quickly if the knife they shipped you was similar quality.

I hope the first paragraph comes across in the light under which it was written. I consider you a friend as much as the knife makers I brought up. It would really be something if this company was on the up and up. The prices amount to the price of a blank and I'll be first in line to try their product depending on your findings. Take whatever time is necessary.

Hell no bud, I don't misunderstand or in any way take offense to what you meant in the first paragraph. We're good.

I don't mean to imply that all custom knife makers are "that sort" but the animosity is more than evident on this forum. a few of them have been flagrantly nasty and vehemently bitter against this particular company...and I can only assume their intent. Considering the "gang-up" mentality in some of those threads [to include the attempt in this one] and the attempted lynching which gained a few followers - the "bandwagon of ignorance" that is in my opinion, more than unnecessary. Nowhere in those threads did I see anyone making a purchase...nowhere did I get an honest or unbiased review....just whining and bickering about being an EBay-only company who won't divulge all the manufacturing information they seek. A single picture "magically" showed up of a blade on a table. The accusation was it was this company's "blank" being made in a foreign country. The picture was a "a friend posted this to me....." scenario and I don't care what anyone says...that picture was not "proof" in the slightest. No one was able to provide a single shred of evidence to that fact....but they still ran with it.

I find those threads and the negative people in them, their motives to me are highly suspect. They gripe and complain from the comfort of internet oblivion and twist people's words to suit their purpose. I have no inclination to believe what they say because I view their venom to be motivated by money. Greed is a powerful motivator...just look at the CS vs CRKT lawsuit as one example. Someone in one of the threads advised CFK that the name "TBT" was copyrighted, that they should change the names of their knives. Ok, from what I read in the previous threads, he did just that. Wasn't good enough.....they claimed there were copies of other knives made....ok....but like I previously said - only a finite amount of designs can be made before something [intentionally or not] becomes a copy. Again not good enough, so...attack the steel being used. They aren't the center of everyone's universe anymore and distractions will pull people away. It's inevitable - people need to get over themselves. If someone did not copyright protect their design, don't whine and scream later that it was duplicated. How many sheath makers have very similar designs? They can't all be 'original' can they? How many designs were copied with or without permission? Or even with a "nod of credit?" I see and Omega sheath and love it....but I tweak the design a bit. Omega sees a buckyfinn design and tweaks it to his liking....and on and on and on. It's the never ending saga from all parts of the manufacturing world...but hey....let's beat the crap out of one company putting up relatively inexpensive knives that threaten "our" existence.....that's what I see going on here...

My friend, trust me when I say....Pakistani knives are almost unmistakable. To the absolute novice? Perhaps - but not to me or anyone else who has ever held a well made knife. I mean the steel used alone - is nothing like I've ever held that was made in Pakistan. Every Paki blade I ever owned, tested or handled was of a high chromium/440 type steel - and they all sucked. This is not that type of steel. I was pleasantly surprised when I opened the box.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

I take back the "take as long as you need".

Maybe some teaser pics? [emoji14]

Btw, you ever read the "truth in advertising" sticky thread that Blues (traditional forum mod) posted? Some people have really strong feelings on the topic. I don't necessarily feel strongly about the topic myself. I *like* to know as many details as possible, but I'm not going to cast a Mora aside just because they won't tell me which alloy or HRC they use.

 

[druid189]

I take back the "take as long as you need".

Maybe some teaser pics? [emoji14]

Btw, you ever read the "truth in advertising" sticky thread that Blues (traditional forum mod) posted? Some people have really strong feelings on the topic. I don't necessarily feel strongly about the topic myself. I *like* to know as many details as possible, but I'm not going to cast a Mora aside just because they won't tell me which alloy or HRC they use.

lol....ok fine....stills taken from the videos:



















...and no, I've not read that particular sticky because I'm not advertising anything on the forum. I can imagine it though, as well as how 'strongly' people may feel. Perhaps I'll review it just to get a better 'feeling' for that but to be honest...I don't think it will matter. IMO a witch hunt is still a witch hunt, no matter how "well intentioned" the inquisitors are. Someone still gets burned at the stake whether they deserved it or not...

EDIT#2: Ok, I read the "truth in advertising" post and I see nothing particularly astonishing about it. I only read post #1 though, simply because everyone else' commentary is just going to be a myriad of randomness.

...and of course when I read the CFK website, I see nothing that violates that "truth" post. Coincidentally, the 'truth' post doesn't factor in the "none of your business" point of business. It suggests the idea that "the cost of the blade should denote the amount of information provided." To that, I completely agree. When a knife maker is trying to peddle a blade for damn-near two thousand dollars, yes I want to know everything possible, including how many warts are on his wife's breasts. Given the fact that the blades are sold by auction starting at 99 cents, according to what that "truth" post details, the information provided on the CFK website is more than adequate.

...but that's not good enough for some.

It says he sources the steel in Europe -From their website - "We source the metals we use from Germany and Sweden. The blades and parts of the knife are handmade and manufactured in England, the components and blades imported to the United States where contracted makers, assemble the knives. The buffalo and cowhide sheaths are handcrafted from left-over leather we source from the Italian handbag industry, in Italy." - and they boast a lifetime guarantee on all knives not listed as "seconds" in their ads.

...then comes the "prove it" stage of the witch hunt. I agree with...."you prove otherwise." It's a pissing match that will never end, regardless of who the "target" is.

Pakistan is in Asia....South Asia to be exact...not Europe.

I'll say it again: IMO a witch hunt is still a witch hunt, no matter how "well intentioned" the inquisitors are. Someone still gets burned at the stake whether they deserved it or not...

 

[Sam Wilson]

Druid, I'm not here to "pile on" or "witch hunt." But you're either missing the fact or misunderstanding the import of it. These CFK guys were directly copying a NUMBER of makers' designs, exactly. Not just the "Tracker" style. It's one thing if that was the only time, but they were doing it to several makers. If you can't understand why makers don't like that, you should try to make a living designing and making something by hand, and then see someone copy it and sell it for much less for a factory made version of all your hard work and see how you feel. I doubt you would feel the same way, but I don't know you, so maybe you wouldnt.

The primary problem has never been, to my knowledge, whether it was a decent knife. I don't really care so much about that, although I will say I "highly doubt" that they are using "hand forged D2 from craftsmen in England." Therein lies the second problem. If they're telling the truth, why not come clean and be transparent?

Other companies tell you where their knives are made. What's so top secret about this "group of craftsmen" in England? If it's such a great idea and they do such great work for cheap, why don't other places use them? Regardless, why hide it? That's the point. Why do people try to hide things? What motivation could there possibly be for that? Hmmmm...

Generally, if you're proud of something and it will help sell your knives or whatever you're selling, you're quick to talk about it and shout it from the rooftops. When people stay defensive and use the old cloak and dagger routine, which we've seen a thousand times before and it almost always means the same thing, people are going to be suspicious.

I get contacted on a fairly regular basis from factories in Pakistan and other countries that want to make knives for me. Guess they don't know what I do, but regardless, they send me pics of their work and even offer to send samples of stuff that looks every bit as good as these. Now maybe CFK is having their knives made in a country other than Pakistan, maybe not. Maybe China, or some other place. But they're capable of producing the blades they have for sale in Pakistan and similar countries. That, coupled with the companies evasive, defensive nature and what they've done already, and I'm just not too impressed.

Also, ask yourself about the standard of living in England versus some of these other countries, and ask yourself if these "English craftsmen" are making a profit off of their great forging skills. Hmmmm...

 

[druid189]

My replies in red

Druid, I'm not here to "pile on" or "witch hunt." But you're either missing the fact or misunderstanding the import of it. These CFK guys were directly copying a NUMBER of makers' designs, exactly. Not just the "Tracker" style. It's one thing if that was the only time, but they were doing it to several makers. If you can't understand why makers don't like that, you should try to make a living designing and making something by hand, and then see someone copy it and sell it for much less for a factory made version of all your hard work and see how you feel. I doubt you would feel the same way, but I don't know you, so maybe you wouldnt.

Like I said...there are only a finite amount of designs to be thought of and at some point "copies" will likely show up. And as I also said, which was ignored then too, no one cried foul over same/similar designs produced by Buck, Gerber, KABAR or Cold Steel. I believe I used the Buck 110 as the example. I find it incredibly hypocritical of the "knife community" as a whole to pounce on one producer but let their favorites 'get away' with it.

...and I do understand why maker's 'get bent' but I also said it's their own fault for not patent protecting or trademarking a design. If I were the one making custom knives, I'd have the patents/trademarks registered so I had legal remedy in court. So while I can appreciate everyone's disdain for the act of copying a design, I also believe it's their own fault for not protecting their "intellectual property." If they were that adamant about it, they should have taken the additional steps to protect it.

The primary problem has never been, to my knowledge, whether it was a decent knife. I don't really care so much about that, although I will say I "highly doubt" that they are using "hand forged D2 from craftsmen in England." Therein lies the second problem. If they're telling the truth, why not come clean and be transparent?

Ok well, I really can't argue your opinion but I simply say this then - if the "steel" used is in question, why hasn't someone bought a knife and done empirical testing on it? Instead of blistering a forum with "well, I think...." ----- put up the actual test results? I don't have that capability but these "so called professionals" apparently do. Well, let them make their point with quantitative data and leave the angry opinions for the "I told you so!" stage. Until that happens, there's absolutely no proof - only conjecture. "Opinions are like armpits...." - to include me and mine.

And I'll be completely honest - If I had a business, not necessarily knives - any business - I have the personal opinion that there are just some aspects of the company that are none of your/his/their business. That's how I feel and I won't apologize for it. People are pissed off because he refuses to give the street address of the company [he says is in England] that cuts the blades? Oh please. The nitpicking is ridiculous and to me and is little more than a bad episode of the X-Files. Always the conspiracy because of a lack of public information. You know, I'm privy to a great many details about Emergency Preparedness/FEMA [read that as policy and procedure to implement Martial Law] as it relates to my department...but the mentality engaged here is much like ::left hand:: what I actually know -----vs----- listening to that idiot Alex Jones about it ::right hand::

Other companies tell you where their knives are made. What's so top secret about this "group of craftsmen" in England? If it's such a great idea and they do such great work for cheap, why don't other places use them? Regardless, why hide it? That's the point. Why do people try to hide things? What motivation could there possibly be for that? Hmmmm...

Oh I don't know......If I found a source to buy a quantity of rusted axe heads for cheap, so I could refinish and rehaft them to sell at a marginal-to-reasonable profit, why would I give you/him/her/them the information so you end up doing it yourselves instead of buying from me? "Other companies tell you where........." and people jump off bridges all the time. If you did, should I follow? Vice versa? You can't have it both ways and still keep your business afloat.

Generally, if you're proud of something and it will help sell your knives or whatever you're selling, you're quick to talk about it and shout it from the rooftops. When people stay defensive and use the old cloak and dagger routine, which we've seen a thousand times before and it almost always means the same thing, people are going to be suspicious.

That's a sentimental outlook that is endeared by the "old world craftsmen." Not everyone holds that opinion.

I get contacted on a fairly regular basis from factories in Pakistan and other countries that want to make knives for me. Guess they don't know what I do, but regardless, they send me pics of their work and even offer to send samples of stuff that looks every bit as good as these. Now maybe CFK is having their knives made in a country other than Pakistan, maybe not. Maybe China, or some other place. But they're capable of producing the blades they have for sale in Pakistan and similar countries. That, coupled with the companies evasive, defensive nature and what they've done already, and I'm just not too impressed.

I can understand that reasoning...but like I said, it's a simple matter of empirical testing....and if a knifemaker really wanted to prove their point, they'd have blown the forum up with the results.

Also, ask yourself about the standard of living in England versus some of these other countries, and ask yourself if these "English craftsmen" are making a profit off of their great forging skills. Hmmmm...

No idea......are burger flippers making profit off their "grill skill" here in the US? What about the WALMART employees? They rolling in dough? Hmmmmmm....

 

[Sam Wilson]

Ok, sounds good. You win. I can't compete with that.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

I'd like to see a review on their 'hawks and folders. Honestly I find many of their designs rather icky, but that's not important. I see plenty of interesting designs too.

About the knife they sent you. I'm assuming that is loosely based on the tbt? My understanding is that the design was made the way it is so that you have two different grinds to use when needed? The one you have seems to have two hollow grinds. I'm either missing something, or incorrect to begin with.

I don't expect you to address the above as I'm sure it's covered in the review.

 

[druid189]

I'd like to see a review on their 'hawks and folders. Honestly I find many of their designs rather icky, but that's not important. I see plenty of interesting designs too.

About the knife they sent you. I'm assuming that is loosely based on the tbt? My understanding is that the design was made the way it is so that you have two different grinds to use when needed? The one you have seems to have two hollow grinds. I'm either missing something, or incorrect to begin with.

I don't expect you to address the above as I'm sure it's covered in the review.

Sorry, I don't have access to any of their hawks or folders. Of the hawk I did look at, I remember making a grimaced face like this ......lol. Even if I did, I don't think I'd enjoy testing it. I prefer a "natural" looking or 'contemporary' hawk, not tactical type hawks - they just don't appeal to me.

...and I never really considered their folders. In fact, I only quickly 'breezed' through the few they had on EBay. Nothing really caught my fancy.

Yes, the knife they sent me is loosely based on the TBT. There are some things I like and some things I don't. I will disclose all that in the video reviews.

Both front and rear portions are hollow ground but at different depth angles. The back portion is much thinner than the front, by at least an +/- 1/8" [about a 16th" on each side]. It's a better slicer than the front due to lack of thickness - but is also harder to get to because the plane of the main [forward] edge is physically lower in the dimension of the entire blade height [if that makes sense at all ?? ]. For feathersticks it works fine...but as a slicer of steaks? Nope, not happening LOL...although, the front section does do very nicely on raw and cooked steak.....

 

[MrMotivations]

..all this talk of steak, Druid, is making me hungry.
I stumbled upon your thread in search of CFK info. It appears to my initial satisfaction that they are not big bad wolves, but likely effective merchants.
What I mean by effective is that they have incorporated known designs adapted for their own sales interests.
I worked for a shoe manufacturing company in the early 80's, and one of the owners was a lawyer. We routinely copied (and shamelessly) the designs
of famous footwear manufacturers, changing one little thing slightly to avoid patent infringement, and our forte was to sell the "knockoffs" at a much
lower price. This is the way of the marketing world regarding manufacturing. It makes many competitors angry, but such is the factor or capitalism.
"Fair, square and legal".
Dave in "Deep Woods", TN

 

[Czechmate]

These knives remind me of the damascus ones I've seen in flea market booths in my travels.

Not hating, just an observation...