Cheap Folding Knives =? Crappy Detents

[Sharperthansticks]

I think I was quite clear in follow-ups what "cheap" means, and even in the initial post, I said that cheaper was better in that you could buy more knives, so to keep complaining about "cheap" seems a little silly to me.

Unfortunately, I've had to block someone because he's just chosen to be argumentative instead of addressing the question, but so it goes.

But on to it, now. Someone asked me to clarify what I meant by "bad" or "crappy" detent. Fair question! If the knife does not almost always deploy so that it locks up after pressing the flipper tab, I consider this to be a crappy detent. I have not seen this problem with more expensive knives; I have twice now seen this problem with knives that cost under $70 -- a Kizer Vanguard and a Ruike.

 

[Bigbobg]

Cheap and inexpensive are two different things. I have some inexpensive ($8-12) knives that are pretty decent quality. I bought another knife for around $30 that was so poorly made I tossed it in the trash.

 

[danbot]

I think I was quite clear in follow-ups what "cheap" means, and even in the initial post, I said that cheaper was better in that you could buy more knives, so to keep complaining about "cheap" seems a little silly to me.

Unfortunately, I've had to block someone because he's just chosen to be argumentative instead of addressing the question, but so it goes.

But on to it, now. Someone asked me to clarify what I meant by "bad" or "crappy" detent. Fair question! If the knife does not almost always deploy so that it locks up after pressing the flipper tab, I consider this to be a crappy detent. I have not seen this problem with more expensive knives; I have twice now seen this problem with knives that cost under $70 -- a Kizer Vanguard and a Ruike.

Just curious, what makes you think its the detent? Have you tried lubricating and adjusting the pivot?

 

[cashville]

I don't own any knives from the manufacturers in question, so I can't speak to that specifically, But from what I've been reading over the past couple of years, the detent on a flipper being too tight or too loose seem to be quite subjective. Some like a nice loose detent and some prefer it much tighter. I think you have some nice "inexpensive" knives that you can use to learn how to make the adjustments properly!

Yep, this is kind of what I was hoping to get to. A "weak" detent where the blade doesn't deploy into the locked position for the OP 100% of the time for the OP may be the perfect detent for someone else. A "perfect" detent for the OP may mean that the blade is excessively slamming into place, causing premature wear on the stop pin for someone else with a stronger flipping action or whatever.

 

[marcinek]

Yep, this is kind of what I was hoping to get to. A "weak" detent where the blade doesn't deploy into the locked position for the OP 100% of the time for the OP may be the perfect detent for someone else. A "perfect" detent for the OP may mean that the blade is excessively slamming into place, causing premature wear on the stop pin for someone else with a stronger flipping action or whatever.

Exactly. It doesn't make it crappy. And a more expensive knife may have the same detent "issues."

And a different detent may be appropriate for a knife that is actually taken out and used. Less risk of it inadvertently opening.

It's like saying a knife's detent is crappy if it doesn't make a super cool "ka-shing" noise when you open it.

 

[marcinek]

If the knife does not almost always deploy so that it locks up after pressing the flipper tab, I consider this to be a crappy detent. I have not seen this problem with more expensive knives; I have twice now seen this problem with knives that cost under $70 -- a Kizer Vanguard and a Ruike.

Maybe you just need to press it harder. It seems like elements of many of your knives cause you pain...

I just got a Benchmade Anthem. It's my first Benchmade, and I love the concept of the Axis lock, but I've noticed that it's hurting the pad of my thumb because of the rough knurling on the pivot. Anyone else have this issue? If so, what did you do about it? Dremel it with a fine-point diamond sander?

Now the detent is stronger but manageable, the knife fires reliably, and it's fixed. (I put some Daiwa oil on the bearings.) The one complaint I now have is that the liner lock could have used some chamfering. Now that the detent is substantially stronger, I have to jam my thumb into the relatively sharp liner to push it closed, which is unpleasant. Other than that, the knife works better than when I got it, so mission accompished.

I'm afraid of all of the hate I'm going to generate, but here goes:

I just bought an Olamic Wayfarer 247. It's the base model, with no extra fanciness whatsoever. The detent is VERY strong, to the point that the flipper tab is uncomfortable on the thumb.

...which is fine...but maybe this detent issue is not as much a result of "crappy" but of sensitivity?

Are there rough surfaces on the flipper causing you discomfort? Maybe they could be filed down.

 

[Sharperthansticks]

A "weak" detent where the blade doesn't deploy into the locked position for the OP 100% of the time for the OP may be the perfect detent for someone else. A "perfect" detent for the OP may mean that the blade is excessively slamming into place, causing premature wear on the stop pin for someone else with a stronger flipping action or whatever.

Do stop pins wear out? How common is this?

 

[Sharperthansticks]

Just curious, what makes you think its the detent? Have you tried lubricating and adjusting the pivot?

That's a good point. Will try that tonight.

 

[marcinek]

Do stop pins wear out? How common is this?

Everything wears out eventually, albeit over the course of years.

 

[ATJ999]

For mid-$50's, the two Real Steel Sea Eagle's I have flip like champs! Also great solid lockup.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Sharperthansticks, just an observation so take it as its offered. I've noticed that you use a lot of subjective language, however you are asking objective questions, and that leads to a bit of difficulty as those replying have to make a few more assumptions. Specifics can be important, and asking well defined questions allows you to get the info you need. For example "Is this a good thing?" is very open to interpretation, where as "Should I expect this knife to be comfortable while whittling for three hours?" is a more defined question. Obviously most of what we face here are subjective questions, and even the objective questions can have a subjective component. As you saw with the slicer thread, not everyone has the same needs for a slicer, so while you can objectively say that X is a better slicer than Y, to some folks Y is the better knife overall due to the other factors that they value.
Also you say you've had to put someone on ignore for arguing, but I think what's happening is that someone is trying to get at the root of your situation, and while that seems like arguing, the reality is just that they are trying to get clarity on what you were meaning.

I think to answer your question. No there will be no correlation to how much you spend on a knife, and how much you end up liking the action of that knife. Spending more will likely get you a knife that has a more similar action to all of its brothers, and might get you a design more conducive to adjustment (but might not) Spending less may require a little more work on your part to bring the knife to your standard. But at the end of the day, if the only aspect you are thinking about is the flipping action, then no, price will not be a data-point to use.

Keep in mind that while there is a wealth of knowledge to be gained here, its more in learnings gleaned from the mistakes and successes of others. You need to build your own foundation of experience to be able to both ask clear questions, and decide what works for you.

 

[James Y]

Do stop pins wear out? How common is this?

As marcinek said, everything wears out eventually, if you're using it. Nothing created by man lasts forever. Obsessively flipping/snapping the knife open with force will wear the stop pin out faster.

Jim

 

[basmca]

Only detent problems i've had is with a 45$ kershaw, which has a detent so harsh that the thumbstuds are pointless and the flipper is thin and smooth so flipping it hurts every time.

Don't get a Halogen.

My kizers all have good detents.

 

[MSchott]

I think the answer is it depends. I have a Kershaw Leek and a CRKT Swindle. The Swindle swings out beautifully and locks firmly. The Leek is not as smooth but locks firmly. Both are inexpensive flippers. They work fine and I have no complaints. No detent issues.

 

[Sharperthansticks]

GadgetGeek, I'd have to think more on it, but you might be right in saying that I should more precisely formulate my questions. Nevertheless, when someone repeatedly complains about my using or not using my knives for cutting when I am clearly asking a question about action, that person has not misunderstood me due to any vagueness on my part; they just have a chip on their shoulder and need to be blocked.

 

[cashville]

I was going to recommend maybe considering an assisted open knife like a kershaw leek if you are concerned with the knife not fully deploying into the locked position every time. I’m not a fan of AO in general, but i loved the leek design when I carried one years ago. The AO does make it more difficult to close one handed though, obviously

 

[gadgetgeek]

GadgetGeek, I'd have to think more on it, but you might be right in saying that I should more precisely formulate my questions. Nevertheless, when someone repeatedly complains about my using or not using my knives for cutting when I am clearly asking a question about action, that person has not misunderstood me due to any vagueness on my part; they just have a chip on their shoulder and need to be blocked.

I hear were you are coming from. However, I'd caution you to assign motive when reading text. 90% of the hurt feelings and ill-will that happens on the forum comes from one party deciding that the other is acting in bad faith, when the reality is that both are just trying to find out what the other is thinking. Right now you have a grace window. But if your reaction to people trying to help (especially the older members) is to get snarky and hit the ignore, you will limit your experience here. Its happened many, many times before. Many here read how others take advice before bothering to give any.

As a broad generality, and one that I fell into when I was starting out as well, is that those new to a hobby tend to fixate on one or two aspects to the detriment of the rest of their experience. What Marcinek was trying to do was encourage you to view the whole of the knife, rather than just one little aspect. When someone fixates on a certain aspect, they tend to be come dissatisfied with everything. I did not read what he wrote as complaining about what you were or were not doing. They are your knives, if all you want to do with them is admire them then that is your prerogative. He understood you, and his advice was good. If you want a knife-shaped-flidget-toy, then just find a good couch flipper. If you want a good all-around EDC it might not be a good couch flipper, and in his opinion, you have a couple good general EDCs. I think at this stage your question has been answered, to the best that I can understand what your question was. If you need more clarity ask more questions. And keep in mind my advice is worth what you paid for it, I want people to be happy with their knives. Be happy with your knives.

 

[Seneca18]

I think I was quite clear in follow-ups what "cheap" means, and even in the initial post, I said that cheaper was better in that you could buy more knives, so to keep complaining about "cheap" seems a little silly to me.

Unfortunately, I've had to block someone because he's just chosen to be argumentative instead of addressing the question, but so it goes.

But on to it, now. Someone asked me to clarify what I meant by "bad" or "crappy" detent. Fair question! If the knife does not almost always deploy so that it locks up after pressing the flipper tab, I consider this to be a crappy detent. I have not seen this problem with more expensive knives; I have twice now seen this problem with knives that cost under $70 -- a Kizer Vanguard and a Ruike.

Some knives are designed to not have strong detents, take Hinderer for example (love em or hate em), particularly the XM-18, by the definition you described that would make the detents on them crappy or bad and they are in no way cheap or considered to be poorly made knives.

 

[deltaboy]

Coast are great!

 

[115Italian]

A crappy detent is a detent that does not serve to retain the blade in the handle adequately. A weak detent makes for a soft flipper, while a strong detent makes for a hard snappy flipper.