- Joined
- Nov 16, 2002
- Messages
- 9,948
Does anyone have the "Chef's Edge" sharpening video from Korin? If so, what's your opinion on it?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Chef's Edge DVD from Korin
- Thread starter thombrogan
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2002
- Messages
- 9,948
A partner in crime and corruption lent me his copy of this video and I watched it twice tonight. The video showed me that I was oversoaking my waterstones and that much of the freehand sharpening I do should be corrected before I enter the glorious world of chefs' knives.
The sharpening dude, Chiharu Sugai, has three stones and an SiC 'stone fixer' at his station (unlike Murray 'Two Stones McGee' Carter) so the video is safer for viewing at the QuietOned household. Lacking Halifax-transplant Carter, it may not be as safe at the Wetdog1911 household (hopefully no one will ask you why you aren't more Japanese).
Safety, results-increasing tips, and microbevels are all featured with the total beginner in mind. Special emphasis on not changing the overall shape of the knife in an attempt to improve performance is given, so the vid is Bill DeShivs-friendly, too.
What a cool freaking video! Those folks at Korin will be getting an order from me soon. This decade, at least.
The sharpening dude, Chiharu Sugai, has three stones and an SiC 'stone fixer' at his station (unlike Murray 'Two Stones McGee' Carter) so the video is safer for viewing at the QuietOned household. Lacking Halifax-transplant Carter, it may not be as safe at the Wetdog1911 household (hopefully no one will ask you why you aren't more Japanese).
Safety, results-increasing tips, and microbevels are all featured with the total beginner in mind. Special emphasis on not changing the overall shape of the knife in an attempt to improve performance is given, so the vid is Bill DeShivs-friendly, too.
What a cool freaking video! Those folks at Korin will be getting an order from me soon. This decade, at least.
Thing is I can't even give the Carter video away. My wife thinks he's cute for one and she loves to remind me "But Murray Carter only needs two stones, cardboard and a building block and you want to buy __________ now"
But it's not all bad she actually is learning sharpening on bench stones. She does a fair job at it and she does understand the mechanics of it and is trying to refine her technique. Though when she asks for my help and I try to show her ..... you guessed it "But Murray Carter ........"
Murray Carter has a LOT to answer for.
But it's not all bad she actually is learning sharpening on bench stones. She does a fair job at it and she does understand the mechanics of it and is trying to refine her technique. Though when she asks for my help and I try to show her ..... you guessed it "But Murray Carter ........"
Murray Carter has a LOT to answer for.
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2002
- Messages
- 2,965
My wife thinks he's cute also, BUT, hasn't mentioned the 2 stones thing. Then again, I only bring out 2 stones at once. LOL
You are WAY ahead of me! Wish I could get my wife to sharpen! Or even try. I would even get her 2 stones or perhaps a Norton combo and try and make that count. LOL
Then I could say, "But Murray Carter says ...".
This new vid sounds interesting, want to hear more.
Rob
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2002
- Messages
- 9,948
Nothing will stop "but Murray Carter...," so mention that he thins the edges of his kitchen knives with those three-foot wide hollow grinders before he gets to the two stones and that your Tormek, collection of Shaptons, and your four ounces of boron carbide powder and assorted lapping films are what are keeping you from tearing up the basement to put in two three-foot diameter whetstones and now just need the pink brick.
I'm going to buy this disc soon. Have watched it three times already and will probably watch it a few more times before mailing it back Monday.
Well, you barely get to hear Chiharu Sugai. He says a few things in English at the beginning and ending of the series of sharpening, knife care, and stone care techniques, but is generally speaking softly in Japanese while the narrator drowns him out using American English. The narrator, with the benefit of a script and not having to be mindful of moving blades while he speaks, does a lot less pausing than Carter.
The video shows how to sharpen a few popular knives and how to get the most out of the 1000 grit and 6000 grit stone by keeping it flat. The video shows a burr-removal technique that is less controversial than slicing into wood, but is even less intuitive (holding the edge parallel to a damp newspaper and moving it side to side to wipe out the cling-ons). Other methods of burr removal are shown, too, without making too big of a deal (it is assumed that the knives being sharpened are designed for their task and made with an acceptable steel). It was very nice to see the stone-fixer used to start off every session.
The video doesn't bag on other methods of sharpening. Korin has no need to badmouth oilstones, the Sharpmaker, serrations, or the symmetrical edge sharpening used on German-style cutlery. Whether that's due to the self-esteem of Chiharu Sugai or the self-respect of the Korin Corporation, it was nice. It's a "You bought yourself a gyutou, petty, and yanagi and want something better than the can-opener's built in sharpener, do you?" type video and it pleased me greatly to watch it. Over and over.
Carter's video assumes that we're not chefs and sushi guys and assumes that not every knife in our collection is well made. Carter's vid also assumes that knives may be bent and need straightening (and if you're going to make assumptions, that's a good one). Carter's video reassures the viewers that since steel, even crappy steel, is harder and denser than most of what we want to cut, even cheapo knives can benefit from proper sharpening (even if going to a high-grit waterstone won't add much benefit).
Sugai's video shows the knife staying in one hand instead of being passed back and forth as recommended on Carter's vid (I like the passing the knife back and forth more, but it's a lot messier to the handles which can really be a pain with folding knives). Sugai's video shows tips on sharpening knife tips as those curves can throw a curve.
And to think that you could do most of your sharpening with a Shapton 2K or the 220MF in your EdgePro, but let's keep it at least two stones for now.
QuietOned said:
Reminds me of the joke involving two respected divinities playing golf and one of them insisting "but Arnold Palmer..." With the goodies on Carter's DVD and an addiction to flattening stones, one can make edges as sharp as Carter's with two stones, but some of us have wandering minds.
You're harboring an assumption that women don't like bad boys. That'll make him seem dangerous and like someone that can be changed.
Less money on stones equals more money for Busse/Scrapper/Swampy fun.
wetdog1911 said:
It's not too new, actually. I'm just horrifically lazy and was given a heck of an oppurtunity. It's a lot quicker than the Carter DVD, especially if you skip the history part and the samurai references. OTOH, watching white-hot steel crazily spark as it's removed from a furnace is just beautiful. Some things, like the finger placement and watching Sugai 'walk' the knife from tip to ricasso as he sharpened were very helpful, too. The sharpening the shinogu section on the yanagi knife looks like it'd be helpful for getting the most out of sharpening a mora/puukko without changing its grind. Neat stuff.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2002
- Messages
- 9,948
The Shapton 15K has 0.92 micron abrasives in a resin binder and your 3M cache has sheets with 1 micron abrasives in a mylar binder (they probably both use AO, too) and the Shapton 30K has 0.49 micron abrasives and you're getting 0.3 micron AO abrasives. The gods may have favored your safety this time.
Yeah but it's a stone!!! and I don't have to peel and stick and well ....
It's a stone...
I have no clue why I want to try it so but I do. I know for the price I can buy a LOT of 3M sheets but still...
Know the sad part though? It probably won't work very well. or is that just sour grapes cuz I don't have one for the EP ..... yet. Ben has said that super fine stones don't tend to work as well as polish tapes. The binder and the pressure gradient with a 1" wide stone don't play together too well. Least that's what I got from the conversation.
But still......
It's a stone...
I have no clue why I want to try it so but I do. I know for the price I can buy a LOT of 3M sheets but still...
Know the sad part though? It probably won't work very well. or is that just sour grapes cuz I don't have one for the EP ..... yet. Ben has said that super fine stones don't tend to work as well as polish tapes. The binder and the pressure gradient with a 1" wide stone don't play together too well. Least that's what I got from the conversation.
But still......
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2002
- Messages
- 9,948
Used the techniques from The Chef's Edge DVD tonight with my diamond stones (they need soapy water to keep from clogging so they're waterstones to me). Since I'm a relative n00b to most hand honing and related to other n00brz, I used the beginner techniques. Um, they worked. Couldn't emulate the hand placement for a chefs knife on my Delica, but the whole edge/shoulder thing was lots of fun. Used the techniques on a strop, too, well, except the edge-leading parts. 
Between the finest diamond and the strop, I slightly dampened a piece of cardboard and moved the blade over it parallel to knock off any burr-Klingons as suggested in the video (the narrator actually recommends newspaper or leather, but que sara sara) and it seemed to help without being as violent to the edge as cutting into wood between passes.
Between the finest diamond and the strop, I slightly dampened a piece of cardboard and moved the blade over it parallel to knock off any burr-Klingons as suggested in the video (the narrator actually recommends newspaper or leather, but que sara sara) and it seemed to help without being as violent to the edge as cutting into wood between passes.
You guys just crack me up, I had to set the beer down for that one! Don't forget to remind her that Murray also mentions that he is a master bladesmith. The higher the rank, the less stones needed, or something like that....
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
- Messages
- 12,554
He is an ABS Master Smith, and he does a fine job of sharpening.
He worked on a kiradashi for me this weekend in Reno.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
I would LOVE to meet him, and buy one of his knives from him at a show. I hear he puts a wicked edge on them in front of you, holding the stones freehand, and has quite the sense of humor. That would be fun to watch!
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2002
- Messages
- 9,948
It's part Carter's fault I'm a waterstone nut. Love his knives and techniques, but his video could've been faster and his critique of the Sharpmaker could've been omitted.
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
- Messages
- 12,554
Never seen his video, Thom.
Hate to say it, but I slack-belt or hollow regrind on a Grizzly when the knife needs it, power convex the edge with a buffer like Rod Chappel showed me years ago, using CrOx, and finish on a leather wheel with pink buffing compound.
Use a Shapton 1000 when the edge gets too dull, move to a black Arkansas, and finish with a diamond, occasionally.
Have a Muteki Honesuki, a Muteki Kiridashi, and a custom damascus/laminated core of white-steel neck knife. They are all very sharp, and have not been reground, with the exception of the kiradashi, which was dropped during the application of handles, which Murray "fixed" the edge on.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2002
- Messages
- 9,948
It's been a while since Curtis got his DVD back, but I've been slowly practicing the skills and suggestions made by Chiharu Sugai. After you hear them, see them on DVD, and practice them several dozen times, they're all common sensical, but until then, it's funny how much faster my waterstones cut and how much flatter they stay compared to before. The techniques, especially done with beginner hints, work sublimely with sandpaper over glass, too. Even my wifey is impressed with my freehand sharpening these days.