Chris Reeve Green Beret?

Matteo Escobar said:
You are the one that said we are trying to discuss steels, right??? Did you not say that?

It was Cliff that said that Busse, Swamp Rat, Ranger might be a better choice!
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Try reading for comprehension.

I wrote: "We are trying to understand the steel."
And I wrote: "The title of the thread is " Chris Reeve Green Beret? " Where you find INFI to discuss in that is beyond me."

What Cliff Stamp wrote is irrelevent to me as I don't bother reading much of what he writes, anyway. If you need his opinion before you can form your own, then I guess I don't need to read what you write, either.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
The users and promoters of every steel need to get to the bottom of the mystery of why it works so well for some and chips -- sometimes badly -- for others.
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Once again, and really not to start trouble, can you please provide one single link of INFI chipping?

I won't even insult you with the plethora of s30v chipping links.

As you said, it's about the STEEL, not about the company.

So, if it's about the steel, let's see the links.
 
I for one find Cliff's reviews interesting. How can you poo-poo a test and results? If you take away the references to other makers the info is still valid.

One note on nails though, I used to work in a plant that made cold heading wire, fence wire, barbed wire, bridge wire, you get the picture right? The wires or rods were drawn down in a Tungsten die to the required size for use as wire, bolts and a myriad of other things. Anything that failed tests, which usually included compression (cracking would be a reject for wire destined for cold heading into bolts or screws) or a ductility test were not thrown away, they were usually drawn down again after annealing and used for another product or they are made into nails. Nails are the end of the line for wire and a box of nails might have about 10 different types of steel in it although all the nails look the same, this is why some just bend when you wack them the same as the others that have gone it without a problem :)

Its not much but I though I should mention that not all nail are created even dispite being in the same box. :)

Now, back to the scheduled arguing :)
 
3Guardsmen said:
You posted that to Matteo Escobar after you posted this about Cliff Stamp.:



Classic example of "the pot calling the kettle black" if you ask me.

3Guardsmen
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Were not asking you. Cliff is what he is and more than a few people know it. He is more than aware of my dislike for him and his testing. You seem like a smart guy...why jump on the Cliffy bandwagon when you can do the same testing yourself? Or are you afraid to damage the knife you paid good money for? I look at this way...I buy knives based on what my intended purpose of the knife will be. If I need to chop wood, I buy an axe or a good wood chopping knife. If I need to filet fish, I buy a filet knife. If I need to bust up cinder blocks, I buy a sledgehammer. I don't need Cliff and his testing to dictate to me what knife is good and what knife isn't. I'm pretty sure I can do that on my own as I have been collecting and using knives for over 20 years now. Many of those knives have been used in the field and in harsh enviroments when I was in the military. I know what makes a good knife and I know what knives work for me. Everyone takes his testing as gospel and let him do the thinking for them (or lack thereof depending on how you look at it). I am more than capable of drawing my own conclusions. I suggest you do the same.
 
K.V. Collucci said:
Were not asking you. Cliff is what he is and more than a few people know it. He is more than aware of my dislike for him and his testing. You seem like a smart guy...why jump on the Cliffy bandwagon when you can do the same testing yourself? Everyone takes his testing as gospel and let him do the thinking for them (or lack thereof depending on how you look at it).
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Cliff provides a valuable service, for free, that we should all appreciate. I think that his tests are objective, and at the very least helpful.

Clearly they don't count for all knives, and I think anyone with a brain can understand that. If you notice 99% of the knives he tests are productions!

If the only thing you want to do is cut something, go buy a f'ing straight razor!
 
Matteo Escobar said:
If the only thing you want to do is cut something, go buy a f'ing straight razor!
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If I want to shave my face I will. But I prefer an electric razor...one that hasn't been beaten into a cinder block. :p

And please keep the foul language out of the general discussion forum. While this topic may be heated there is no need for profanity.
 
K.V. Collucci said:
Were not asking you. Cliff is what he is and more than a few people know it. He is more than aware of my dislike for him and his testing. You seem like a smart guy...why jump on the Cliffy bandwagon when you can do the same testing yourself? Everyone takes his testing as gospel and let him do the thinking for them (or lack thereof depending on how you look at it).
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I didn't intend to jump on anybody's "bandwagon", Ken. I appreciate Cliff's reviews for what they are, informative and interesting to read. Do I believe they're Gospel? No, sir, I do not! I do test my knives in my own fashion, but cannot possibly spend the same time he takes, due the rather extensive testing he does (and on the wide array of knives he tests) to complete all of those tests.

I, like you, work in the Public Safety field, and as such, value the tests Cliff does, as I could possibly find myself a situation where my knife/knives could be called upon to be used past the scope of their intended function (like prying and chopping). I want to know just how far a given tool can go, yet lack all of the time and resources to do all of the testing on my own equipment. It is for that reason that I frequent this (and similar) forums and read reviews.

Best wishes,
3Guardsmen
 
3Guardsmen said:
I didn't intend to jump on anybody's "bandwagon", Ken. I appreciate Cliff's reviews for what they are, informative and interesting to read.
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That's refreshing to read because 9 out of 10 newcomers to this forum believe that if Cliff said it it must be true. True Cliff-a-Maniacs they are. ;)
 
This is GunnerJohn, once again turning this over to knifemaker Bill Harsey.

This is Bill Harsey,
I won't make a habit of doing this but some comments about testing have prompted my response.

First, I really like the enthusiasm and passion for the discussion of knives and steel here. Thank you guys for this.

Now about the testing. Mr. Stamp presents his testing in a somewhat scientific manner. If we are using the scientific methods, I have concerns. there is no independent verification of the condition of the Green Beret knife prior to or during the testing procedures. I'm surprised this hasn't been noticed by such an astute audience.

Is chopping very hard materials a complete test of a knifes edge? It's one test but there are others to consider.

Has anyone done any long duration salt spray atmosphere testing of the Green Beret knife or others made from CPM S-30V?

I note a lack of information about transverse bend fracture strength in CPM S-30V or comparisons to other steels in this critical area.

Does anyone have firsthand knowledge of how the CPM S-30V holds up cutting animal tissues and how this compares to other blade steels?

Does the testing represent the conditions the Green Beret knife will be used in by those for whom it was designed?

Has anyone tested this knife while wearing gloves in sub-zero temperatures in complete darkness?

The testing by Mr. Stamp being quoted here is far from a complete analysis and shows a lack of understanding in some major areas of knife use.

A couple footnotes here:
If you have firsthand experience with your Green Beret knife chipping, then by all means post here, tell the world and know we will make it right. If your only citing information you have read somewhere else, I will question the statement.

I also have no interest in other makers or manufacturers or users said problems with the steel being discussed. How other people make and use knives is not my problem to solve. We take care of what we do.

Thank you. Bill Harsey
 
K.V. Collucci said:
That's refreshing to read because 9 out of 10 newcomers to this forum believe that if Cliff said it it must be true. True Cliff-a-Maniacs they are. ;)
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No problem, sir. I'll read anything that anybody writes and give it the weight I feel it deserves, whether it be a manufacturer, a professional, or Cliff Stamp.:D

Best wishes,
3Guardsmen
 
I like it when Cliff Stamp breaks a knife, cause the manufacturers don't show us. They give us an idea, a range of uses, and warranty limitations that only suggest the ability of a blade. Cliff quite often finds the limit, or passes it. I expect to read about failure somewhere in one of his reviews, he at the least plays around with the edge profile to see what the curve is for reliability and performance. Any failure in one of his reviews is far less disconcerting then when a member posts pics of a blade falling apart while whittling, or being dropped from waist height onto the pavement in complete surprise.

Cliff tests for a wide variety of roles blades play, and I for one have never been terribly surprised when a small folder doesn't outchop a camp knife. This consistency in testing does add some perspective, especially when the knives are not quite that distant in design. A lot of people will say that, for a lot of different blades, they are able to handle a lot of diferrent tasks. Cliff puts numbers to these claims. I don't place 100% faith in them, but it's at least something to mull about. And it does spur further discussion (sometimes to the dismay of a few)
 
Good discussion going here, even if it's a bit argumentative. I myself have been interested in buying a CRK 5.5" Green Beret and have looked at all the info I can find on this knife. Great to get some feedback from Mr. Harsey too.

Cliff's tests are beyond what I will ever use a knife for most likely, but I do like to know a knife's limits. As for the brass rod flex test - sure if I need to cut brass I would use a tool designed for it but this does give an idea of how a knife's edge will hold up when used to chop some wood or if if gets dinged on a rock while digging in the dirt or some such task. Granted an Axe or a Shovel are better tools for those jobs but we are talking about a knife to be used in the field by Special Forces so it stands to reason it could be called upon to perform these jobs.

For my own use, all it would probably see is a few camping trips a year. Right now my current FB Camping Knife is the little 4" Falkniven. It's been a great little knife and has been used to baton a few small logs into smaller kindling to get a fire going when things have been wet. While my Gransfors Axe would do the job better I usually pack a folding saw instead. As a Father of 2 small boys now my spending is limited compared to what it was, thus I look into my purchases a lot more than before. Add the fact that I really don't need another knife, only want, makes me hesitant to purchase a knife I have heard having its edges chip. I say all this as background information only because I intend no insult or dis-respect to CRK or Mr. Harsey. I find the 5.5" Green Beret to be almost everything design-wise what I like in a FB Knife - Spearpoint, Blade Length & Thickness, Handle design, comfort, & material. Only changes I would make, if I was able, would be no serrations and a more minimal upper guard.

Beyond all that, I think the CRK Green Beret is far better than what A Lot of soldiers are carrying.
 
I normally don't jump in to take sides but I have a bit of experience that may be "nice to know".

I own a Neil Roberts knife. It is in the garage, in my tool box. I suppose not the place for a "serialized" numbered collector. I use it fishing, boating, on the job , but havn't shot anything to "gut" with it yet.

When you use a knife, it has to be one with your hand. In the dark or underwater, both of which I do with my knives. The Neil Roberts with the 6" blade, comfortable grip, and well made sheath is a heck of a buy. I don't know steels, but this knife is sharp, holds an edge, and easy to touch up.

Two thumbs up for CRK knives and a thank you to Mr. Harsey for a nice design but even nicer tribute to a fallen brother SEAL.
 
I realize the respect that Bill Harsey has on this forum and the respect that CRK has, as well. But I'm looking for a better understanding of the strengths and limitations of S30V, not a string of theoretical questions that muddy the issue.

Bill's post had no information to help me evaluate the steel.

I've probably bought my last S30V knife until the makers of these knives get up off their laurels and add substance to the discussion.
 
Twindog said:
I realize the respect that Bill Harsey has on this forum and the respect that CRK has, as well. But I'm looking for a better understanding of the strengths and limitations of S30V, not a string of theoretical questions that muddy the issue.

Bill's post had no information to help me evaluate the steel.

I've probably bought my last S30V knife until the makers of these knives get up off their laurels and add substance to the discussion.
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Bill Harsey here,
Twindog, please note I asked some very important questions that I would like answered by your experts in which many here seem to believe without question. Please read the following carefully:

These questions are not simply theoretical as each one has a direct relationship to how a steel and a knife design works in the environment it is designed for. Until these questions are understood "more substance' isn't going to help anything. You seem to already have your mind made up, why am I personally responsible for changing it?

Do I have answers based on my research and testing? Yes. Do I get the sense that people want to listen? Some do but others won't. I get a strong sense that many actually enjoy the sport of taking down others hard work. I don't have time to play that game.

We have delivered a significant number of knives made from CPM S-30V steel and if we had any of the problems others seem to claim absolute knowledge of, we would have switched alloys of steel a long time ago and have saved a tremendous amount of money and labor. We are not married to any alloy of steel and make decisions based on our experience.
I have no regrets or second thoughts about using CPM S-30V for life critical knives and will continue to make knives from this steel.

I just passed the three month point of working with a total of two days off in this time period. I am not resting on the "laurels" as you accuse but am getting work to those who need it.

If you come to the conclusion, based on what all your local experts and internet hearsay claims to know about CPM S-30V steel, and you aren't going to buy any more knives made from it, that is what you should do.

Out here, Bill Harsey
 
I was kinda hoping the knifemaker would already have asked & answered those questions. Especially the sub-zero complete darkness one. I'm gonna stick my opinel in the freezer and see if it disintegrates.

and I may pony up and ask some the tower of power guys around here what they think. If they even give it much thought.
 
Thanks, Bill:

I'm a person who actually uses my knives. I live in a rugged wilderness area (I'm on solar-powered satellite internet), so performance is important. I'm willing to pay a premium for that performance, which is why I purchased my S30V knives. I have had both good and bad experience with S30V in real-world use that I don't think constitutes exceptionally hard use, much less abuse.

I have said nothing but good things about the makers of the S30V knives that failed me because those makers have stood behind their products. I'm not posting to throw bombs at anyone.

I have had no problems with my Sebenza in S30V.

However, the fact is that some knives in S30V have problems with the edge chipping. Others have not. I'd like to know what that problem is so when I buy a knive in S30V, I have some assurance that the edge will not chip in normal use.

As yet, I have not seen any maker come out and help answer that question. That lack of response is frustrating from the point of view of a consumer. I have thought often about buying your Green Beret knife, but the uncertainty about the steel has always stopped me.
 
My primary reason for visiting this site is to gather useful information before completing an upcoming knife purchase. I have already formulated an opinion on the given knife based on its intended use and ascetics, as well as price. I then come to this site and do a search, to see if the knife in question will meet my requirements and expectations. I’m not so vane that I’m not willing to accept someone’s opinion on the particular knife in question, and enjoy reading about others experiences with the knife.

While all these many varied opinions have some limited bearing on my final decision, it’s what two members here in particular have to say about the knife/steel that have the greatest influence in my final decision making process. Those two most knowledgeable members are, in my opinion, Cliff Stamp and Joe Talmadge.

I also realize those opinions of the general membership are somewhat bias, as most of those owning the particular knife think it’s the next best thing to sliced bread. While it’s nice to read that it’s “scary sharp” out of the box, and “it’s one of my favorites”, I’m really looking for more substance than just casual observations, and that’s where the likes of Joe and Cliff come in. I can feel comfortable reading their opinions, knowing they are coming from someone with years of experience and an unquestionable knowledge of the many different factors that set one knife/steel apart from the others.

I’m deeply appreciative of the knowledge they so willingly share, but, I also realize I’m the one making the ultimate decision after reading their thoughts and recommendations.

I, for one, do much more than “take their statements with a grain of salt”; I have yet to read anything offered here that even comes remotely close to matching the knowledge shared by these two individuals!

Treadwell
 
Twindog,
Bill Harsey here (Admins said they'd help with my log in after SHOT Show)
Thanks for getting back. I'm out here in Oregon and have a great appreciation of living and working in the outdoors. (You have me beat, I'm connected to the grid) I grew up logging big timber here in the Cascades of Oregon and have some experience chopping stuff, both steel and wood.

On another day we can talk about axes since they have been cited by the in-house knife guru, Mr. Stamp as the standard for his chopping tests. A number of axes that have won world championships in professional timber sports like at ESPN's Stihl Finals, have gone thru this shop for all final grinding and bevel work. I can and have chopped, without stopping thru a twenty inch diameter doug fir log, using an axe. This is also why chainsaws are made.:D

Twindog, Sir,
Here is an answer about CPM-30V and the potential of edge chipping,
All tool steels are notch sensitive to some degree and of course heat treatment is critical. If a CPM S-30V blade is heat treated with a coarse grind and then left so afterwords, this increases the chance of an edge chip in very hard use. This is a manufacturing issue.

Hardheart, think just a bit deeper about the question you've made fun of. There will be a test later..
Heat treat oven is getting warm, back to work here.
Bill
 
I can understand that ambient temp could affect the steel, but I don't get the darkness bit. Seems that is more ergos and indexing, or kinesthetics. I don't know if anyone has criticized this knife for any such failings, but there are some of us still wondering about S30V, and how consistent the performace from it can be in mass produced blades. You are quite confident, and we'd like to know why.
 
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