Compasses
- Thread starter Gossman Knives
- Start date
Rock6,
A good set of comments.
One of the most difficult things is to keep to your compass bearing when you are walking diagonally on the side of a hill/mountain.
It is very easy to drift up or down and although you are pointing the right way with your compass you have drifted off the bearing.
So it is very important to take short sightings, perhaps from rock to rock or tree to tree.
You then take a back bearing from your previous target to check your drift
If you have three people then the last man corrects the drift as you have three people to have the three points of a straight line
This is vital in snow whiteouts or night marching
A good set of comments.
One of the most difficult things is to keep to your compass bearing when you are walking diagonally on the side of a hill/mountain.
It is very easy to drift up or down and although you are pointing the right way with your compass you have drifted off the bearing.
So it is very important to take short sightings, perhaps from rock to rock or tree to tree.
You then take a back bearing from your previous target to check your drift
If you have three people then the last man corrects the drift as you have three people to have the three points of a straight line
This is vital in snow whiteouts or night marching
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Scott I teach land Nav for our ERT team and have bought a boat load of books on the subject.The U.S. Army map reading and land navigatin is a great book.I use a lot of handrails and aiming off. I have a Cammenga but seem to use my Suunto the most.
Mike
Mike
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Scott,
Shoot me your email address and I'll forward you a Navigation primer powerpoint presentation put together by Kevin Estela. It covers a good base of stuff to help get you started.
Navigation is something I, too, want to work on more this year.
Russell
Shoot me your email address and I'll forward you a Navigation primer powerpoint presentation put together by Kevin Estela. It covers a good base of stuff to help get you started.
Navigation is something I, too, want to work on more this year.
Russell
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- Sep 22, 2003
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- 13,182
I have a Silva Ranger and another Silva, I can't remember the model.
Generally in the Wilderness I only use a compass when I'm sort of not sure I'm still going in the right direction. I normally have a topo map of where I'm going and can normally sort of see where I am from the contour. So I don't do a lot of fine navigation.
We recently had our place surveyed and I used mine to mark the line between a lot of the points because you couldn't see from one to another. That was interesting since I KNEW that if I kept on the bearing that I would wind up at the next point. Was cool that most of the time I wound up right on the next point, or 2 or 3 feet on either side of it. I'd shoot for something in the line, walk to it and then shoot again rather than trying to hold the compass and follow it due to the terrain and brush.
I learned about using a compass in Land Surveying class in college. Was part of our curriculum in forestry.
Generally in the Wilderness I only use a compass when I'm sort of not sure I'm still going in the right direction. I normally have a topo map of where I'm going and can normally sort of see where I am from the contour. So I don't do a lot of fine navigation.
We recently had our place surveyed and I used mine to mark the line between a lot of the points because you couldn't see from one to another. That was interesting since I KNEW that if I kept on the bearing that I would wind up at the next point. Was cool that most of the time I wound up right on the next point, or 2 or 3 feet on either side of it. I'd shoot for something in the line, walk to it and then shoot again rather than trying to hold the compass and follow it due to the terrain and brush.
I learned about using a compass in Land Surveying class in college. Was part of our curriculum in forestry.
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Regardless of which quality compass you choose, It is extremely important to know what magnetic declination is in general, and what it is specifically in your AOs.
Gossman Knives
Edged Toolmaker
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Once again thanks for all the info. Rock great post but alot to take in. I guess the best place to start is reading and learning what the terminology means. Russell, PM being sent.
BTW, if anyone is interested this is Byron's website http://www.byronkernssurvival.com
My friend harpoon41 aka Ed took a course with him several years ago and really enjoyed it.
Scott
BTW, if anyone is interested this is Byron's website http://www.byronkernssurvival.com
My friend harpoon41 aka Ed took a course with him several years ago and really enjoyed it.
Scott
hey mate, firstly I have army thesis on navigation here, they are pretty much a step by step guide on how to navigate with a map and compass, if you want a copy PM me and I will email or post it to you.
the key skills you need to know are as follows,
calculate magnetic variation on the map your using,
convert grid bearings to mag bearings and vice versa,
shoot bearing to known features on the ground and triangulate your position by calculating back bearings,
picking a route using a map so pretty much looking at the map and plotting a route that easy and putting in features that will cross you path at set distances to monitor progress,
doing map to ground which is seeing a feature on the ground then identifying it on the map, once you get good at map to ground you wont have to triangulate your position you will know where you are just by looking at the map
as far as compasses go get something with a sighting prism, I use a silva expedition 54b compass, its the standard issue very easy to use its available in mills and degrees, if you can get taught to use mills instead of degress, as its more accurate, the face of the compass is divided into 6400mils instead of 360 degrees. if you master the above skills no matter where you go in the world, you will be able to navigate and find your position in any area any time.
regards,
Stew
the key skills you need to know are as follows,
calculate magnetic variation on the map your using,
convert grid bearings to mag bearings and vice versa,
shoot bearing to known features on the ground and triangulate your position by calculating back bearings,
picking a route using a map so pretty much looking at the map and plotting a route that easy and putting in features that will cross you path at set distances to monitor progress,
doing map to ground which is seeing a feature on the ground then identifying it on the map, once you get good at map to ground you wont have to triangulate your position you will know where you are just by looking at the map
as far as compasses go get something with a sighting prism, I use a silva expedition 54b compass, its the standard issue very easy to use its available in mills and degrees, if you can get taught to use mills instead of degress, as its more accurate, the face of the compass is divided into 6400mils instead of 360 degrees. if you master the above skills no matter where you go in the world, you will be able to navigate and find your position in any area any time.
regards,
Stew
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Yeah, that's what I was trying to get across. Short sightings are necessary in restrictive or difficult terrain (think snow drifts, swamps, dense jungle-like foliage, major elevation shifts, night-time, etc.)...good catch!
I know it sounds like a lot Scott, but use a good primer, get the basics down and try a few simple exercises.
I forgot to mention the usefulness of the tritium version of the Cammenga lensatic compass. I know not many do much patrolling at night
, but if you're trying to be discreet about moving to your deer stand or just get a late start back to your truck, the self-luminous version helps to navigate on your azimuth without killing your night vision (unless it's completely dark or a new moon and you need a flashlight to navigate; just another reason why I prefer the tritium version.ROCK6
I use a small Silva Ranger 27- doesn't have adj declination (have to do it the old fashion way )- I used the same compass when working as a Wilderness Ranger for the USFS. One of my duties was to pinpoint campsites onto a topo map (along w/ rating them for several criteria)- I got pretty good at triangulating, but had the benefit of working in the mountains and having lots to aim at
I wish someone would make a declination adj compass in the above size, haven't seen one yet
)- I used the same compass when working as a Wilderness Ranger for the USFS. One of my duties was to pinpoint campsites onto a topo map (along w/ rating them for several criteria)- I got pretty good at triangulating, but had the benefit of working in the mountains and having lots to aim at I wish someone would make a declination adj compass in the above size, haven't seen one yet
I use a small Silva Ranger 27- doesn't have adj declination (have to do it the old fashion way
I wish someone would make a declination adj compass in the above size, haven't seen one yet
Across the brands, I have not seen the small Ranger 27 type with an declination adjustment.
Only the larger Ranger 15TDCL types
I would suggest to have TWO quality compasses. Funny when you are turned around, [lost], you think the one your'e using is broken. Ask me how I know,
Very good advice!
It will happen and when it does your first hint is that you no longer trust your compass. Your compass never lies but it's wise to have a 2nd one just to make sure your not going crazy.
I carry a Suunto mirror compass as my primary compass and then a basic smaller compass for general direction finding and as a back-up. And a topo map in color.
You can order custom topo maps for any area in USA and Canada, in color, at various scales, grid options and paper options including waterproof, from www.mytopo.com
I used a GPS for a few years but found I was getting lazy and didn't enjoy it as much so I sold it. I don't miss it but I am wanting a small GPS device, something like the size of car remote or smaller, that can give me a digital read out of my coordinates and elevation. It's nice to be able to verify your location on the map.
I have been wrong at times and I have more than average experience with this. I have a degree in surveying plus military experience. Feeling lost for even a short while plays game with your head and that 2nd compass could spare you that initial panic that could be so dangerous.
Something else that I found really helpful is to keep the instructions that came with your compass. Keep them on you, in your first aid kit or something else that you always have with you.
When you think your lost the first thing to do is stop and sit down. Then I recommend pulling out those instructions and reading them. This grounds you and gets you thinking and prevents panic.
Good luck,
When you think your lost the first thing to do is stop and sit down. Then I recommend pulling out those instructions and reading them. This grounds you and gets you thinking and prevents panic.
Good luck,
FAL'ER
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I've got one of those military (Tan) compasses from a bunch of gear my bro gave me. No Idea how it works.
I did all my land nav. on baseplate map compass. Suunto m3 global, I bought another Suunto to keep in my SAR pack. Good quality, made in finland.
The newer Silva Rangers get mixed reviews since they got outsourced.
I did all my land nav. on baseplate map compass. Suunto m3 global, I bought another Suunto to keep in my SAR pack. Good quality, made in finland.
The newer Silva Rangers get mixed reviews since they got outsourced.
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Not a flip open compass, but what I use daily, it came whit my army issued, Victorynox wristwatch. I always wind up working in unfamiliar areas all over Mexico and the use some times, having a compass helps me get my bearings all the time. I do some counter drug trafficking patrols in the jungle regions in the south of Mexico, it is in under that dense canopy that you lose yourself very fast. the best compass is the one you have when you need it.
I tend to stick with Suunto - they're very high quality. Brunton makes some nice compasses too. I have a Suunto M-3 and a Suunto MC-2 Global [can be used anywhere on earth - N. or S. hemisphere for instance]. I will often figure-out my bearings with a GPS and then use the compass to navigate [saves energy, better dampening].
yep...i know a lot of smart people who are fools...i use a garman etrex, but i do know how use map and compass, adjust and follow a bearing, and i always have both systems with me...
when the electronics fails, the nights will be very cold.
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I have some expensive compasses, like the brunton eclipse. leave them home now; the $12 silvas I get at walmart have been just as reliable if not more so. thats what I use all the time now. I have a backup on my watch, and at least one other button compass somewhere, like a zipper pull.