Condor New 2018 Lineup

19-3ben said:
I see what you're saying. Some of what customers ask for would add cost, and some doesn't though. For example, when they started introducing 420hc to the product line instead of just 1075. and replacing some 1075 models with 420HC. I mean, is 420HC really going to cost them more to produce? It's one of the most common budget steels in the world, up there with AUS8 and 8cr13mov.

Let's take something like the Hudson Bay knife. A popular choice. two years ago it could be found in the low $40s range. Now its in the low $60s. A 50% increase. Same for a Bushlore that used to be found in the mid $30 range and now is in the mid $50s. Same materials... Is it better fit/finish? You know better than i know.

The issue I have is that Condor may be great. But when a Boomslang or Warlock runs $118, and for that price it is encroaching on ESEE Junglas territory.. Or a Solobolo runs the same cost as a Becker BK9... The Condors also lack removable scales, which seem a popular option for people who like to customize, and even just so that people can replace a broken scale if need be (not that they really break much).

I used to be a huge Condor cheerleader, but Condor seems to be pricing itself out of the market because they are now trying to directly compete with Kabar, ESEE, Ontario, etc...

Just one man's take on it. At least the Moonshiner hasn't gone up more than a couple bucks, and still represents an awesome value...
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The fit and finish really has gone up significantly. The micarta handled models have always been pricey mostly because of how much contouring they do, so it really eats a lot of consumables. 420HC was the original steel they used, and it was 1075 that got added later. They can't do distal taper on the 420HC because they hot-roll the taper in and stainless doesn't play nicely with forging compared to carbon steels. Not sure what you're saying on that front, though?

As far as models like the Hudson Bay and the Bushlore, the quality of the current production is way nicer than it was back when they were $40. I do think that making their MAP only 15% off MSRP was setting the bar too high, but that led me to just make my Special Grade work free on all Condor products.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
The fit and finish really has gone up significantly. The micarta handled models have always been pricey mostly because of how much contouring they do, so it really eats a lot of consumables.
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Like I said, I have to take your word for it. The only ones I have are wood handled, and from a couple years ago. You have a depth and breadth of experience that gives you expertise on this.

FortyTwoBlades said:
420HC was the original steel they used, and it was 1075 that got added later. They can't do distal taper on the 420HC because they hot-roll the taper in and stainless doesn't play nicely with forging compared to carbon steels. Not sure what you're saying on that front, though?
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I didn't realize they started with 420hc. I thought it was 1075 and THEN they added the 420hc in certain models which seemed to me to coincide with the rise in prices. Perhaps that's my perception and I accept that it could be incorrect. I'll concede that point.

FortyTwoBlades said:
As far as models like the Hudson Bay and the Bushlore, the quality of the current production is way nicer than it was back when they were $40.
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And that's what I was going after in the first place. I don't have experience with the new ones.but as you say:

FortyTwoBlades said:
The quality overall on most models is now equal to that of a low-to-mid-level custom knife.
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If I can get low-mid custom quality for under $100, that seems more than fair. I'll be interested to give it a shot. perhaps a neonessmuk is in my future. I'll head to your sight when it's time for me to pull the trigger.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
The fit and finish really has gone up significantly. The micarta handled models have always been pricey mostly because of how much contouring they do, so it really eats a lot of consumables. 420HC was the original steel they used, and it was 1075 that got added later. They can't do distal taper on the 420HC because they hot-roll the taper in and stainless doesn't play nicely with forging compared to carbon steels. Not sure what you're saying on that front, though?

As far as models like the Hudson Bay and the Bushlore, the quality of the current production is way nicer than it was back when they were $40. I do think that making their MAP only 15% off MSRP was setting the bar too high, but that led me to just make my Special Grade work free on all Condor products.
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and that right there is why if you have the condor in stock shop no further....youre the place to buy from. your special grade was always worth the few extra bucks ya charged. now included.......wow. condor primary bevels and edges have never been very good but with you fixing them.........makes a good deal a great deal.
 
The edges on any of the "scandi" (w/microbevel) style grinds are pretty good from the factory these days and I just like to thin out the micro's angle, but the grind behind it is fine now and the factory edge is shaving sharp out of the box if not for the super thin clear lacquer they coat the blades with. It comes off in normal use so just a few cuts in wood will take the coating off the edge and you can see, but thinning it out just a little more further assists in the cutting. Their other models are still a bit thick in the edge, but so are many entry-level customs. I've done a lot of regrinds for folks over the years now and have been surprised what passes for a finished edge with a lot of makers, and the Condor stuff is pretty much on par in that department. There's a good number of models this year I know I won't be carrying, but there's some very attractive ones in the mix. The Terrasaur is looking like it'll be a Garberg-killer. :p
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
The fit and finish really has gone up significantly. The micarta handled models have always been pricey mostly because of how much contouring they do, so it really eats a lot of consumables. 420HC was the original steel they used, and it was 1075 that got added later. They can't do distal taper on the 420HC because they hot-roll the taper in and stainless doesn't play nicely with forging compared to carbon steels. Not sure what you're saying on that front, though?

As far as models like the Hudson Bay and the Bushlore, the quality of the current production is way nicer than it was back when they were $40. I do think that making their MAP only 15% off MSRP was setting the bar too high, but that led me to just make my Special Grade work free on all Condor products.
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I didn't know they went to MAP pricing which explains a lot. I will have to take another look at the current Bushlore. I have the original, and one from back when they were in the $40's. I was one of the folks that suggested a thinner bar steel on the Bushlore way back then. I am a Condor fan overall, but it is a little trying lately from a value point of view for me. The original Bushlore is my beater work knife which I use to cut "essentially dirt".
 
They were having problems with some sellers basically selling at nearly wholesale prices and it was hurting a lot of their dealers, hence the introduction of MAP, but 15% was a bit too little of an allowable discount when the big box guys were doing 33% off on average. I was doing 25% off on average but since I now include Special Grade work for free and most folks opt for it I'm probably selling them cheaper than I ever did in the past at this point. So it worked out ok for me, I guess. :p The ones ruining the show for everyone were mostly Amazon sellers, many of them probably with little business acumen since you can't sustainably run a business at that razor-thin of a margin, but for every one that went out of business another popped up to take their place. You can see how that would ultimately harm the health of the market over time as good businessmen would be prone to drop the line under those sorts of competitive conditions. MAP is sort of the new norm in the internet age, but the devil is in the details when it comes to crafting a successful MAP strategy.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
They were having problems with some sellers basically selling at nearly wholesale prices and it was hurting a lot of their dealers, hence the introduction of MAP, but 15% was a bit too little of an allowable discount when the big box guys were doing 33% off on average. I was doing 25% off on average but since I now include Special Grade work for free and most folks opt for it I'm probably selling them cheaper than I ever did in the past at this point. So it worked out ok for me, I guess. :p The ones ruining the show for everyone were mostly Amazon sellers, many of them probably with little business acumen since you can't sustainably run a business at that razor-thin of a margin, but for every one that went out of business another popped up to take their place. You can see how that would ultimately harm the health of the market over time as good businessmen would be prone to drop the line under those sorts of competitive conditions. MAP is sort of the new norm in the internet age, but the devil is in the details when it comes to crafting a successful MAP strategy.
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I was told by (that big knife store in TN), that they were dropping the Condor line from their store. I look at Condor stuff every time I visit that store and have purchased the majority of them there even though they tend to be a little higher price-wise than some. The next store visit will tell the tale as far as whether they continue to carry the line. My last visit there was in October and they didn't have a large assortment of Condor product at that time.

I have to agree with you on the margin issue from a practical business model perspective.
 
19-3ben said:
Like I said, I have to take your word for it. The only ones I have are wood handled, and from a couple years ago. You have a depth and breadth of experience that gives you expertise on this.
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I guess he's telling the truth, but I can only speak from my personal experience. And in my experience, the fit and finish of the newer models is not in any way better than the older models I have purchased(which is quite a few), outside of some of the really early, long discontinued models. And the gladius, a newer, more expensive product, has more fit and finish issues than any of the older things I had. So you'll have to forgive me for not accepting something as a "cost increasing benefit" when I have gotten literally no benefit from it.
 
That's because their swords are garbage. It doesn't reflect on the rest of their core products.
 
19-3ben said:
I love the look of the Toki.
I see that knife, and I imagine a Nessmuck rolling over in bed one morning with a hangover and seeing a Santoku knife still sleeping, and saying "oh crap, what did I do?"


All kidding aside, I have no idea what the actual price will be, but that's one seriously good looking knife and sheath.


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Probably be around $75-$100 is mt guess. IMO Condor is one of those odd under-rated brands that doesn't get a whole lot of attention from shoppers, mainly because they focus mostly on function and their blades have a rugged and unfinished look and feel to them. I would say they are the best value for the money brand out there. Nothing overly flashy. They don't use premium steels. They just focus on making highly functional knives instead of flashy man-jewelry.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
That's because their swords are garbage. It doesn't reflect on the rest of their core products.
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Their swords may not be historically accurate, the designers may not be sword people as you mentioned, I get that. But that's no reason for the F&F to be bad. Handles with multiple rough spots and edges making it exceedingly uncomfortable to hold? That's not something you need to be a HEMA fighter or master swordsmith to realize is bad.
 
If you want a inexpensive functional sword, Cold Steel has been my choice. But I do want to look at one of the Condors just for giggles. Not something I buy often; more just general interest.
 
DShiflet said:
Their swords may not be historically accurate, the designers may not be sword people as you mentioned, I get that. But that's no reason for the F&F to be bad. Handles with multiple rough spots and edges making it exceedingly uncomfortable to hold? That's not something you need to be a HEMA fighter or master swordsmith to realize is bad.
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No, when I meant garbage I didn't mean historically inaccurate. I said historically inaccurate when I meant historically inaccurate. I meant garbage when I said garbage. The swords are not only poorly designed, but poorly made. It's a totally different mode of construction that they just don't know how to deal with. They're garbage and don't reflect on the rest of the things they produce.
 
Anyone know the oal on the Otzi? Pocket carry, or too long and fat?

I have 3 older models, Hudson, Dundee and Warlock. Seeing the new prices, I must concur with the perceived consensus that Condor has morphed from a "bang for the buck" into more of a "me too" manufacturer.
 
The Otzi and spoon knife are definitely on my radar. The Otzi because it looks like the great great great grand father of the mora eldris I love and you can never have too many spoon knives, especially when they come with a sheath!

Edit to add: The Hudson bay is one of those knives I've been adding to my cart and then deleting for years now. I've no use for it but man do I want one.
 
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FortyTwoBlades said:
It's a totally different mode of construction that they just don't know how to deal with.
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Smoothing rough spots out of wooden sword handles is a totally different thing than smoothing them out of wooden machete handles or wooden knife handles? That has nothing to do with construction.

22-rimfire said:
If you want a inexpensive functional sword, Cold Steel has been my choice. But I do want to look at one of the Condors just for giggles. Not something I buy often; more just general interest.
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Cold Steel's swords are...pretty bad too, actually. The only "cheapish" swords I've found that are worth a damn are from Traditional Filipino Weapons, though your choices there are rather limited if you're not looking for, well, Filipino blades.
 
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