Crucible Industries Update

My biggest take away from all this has been that the knife community is basically getting the leftovers from all the industry that has the tonnage demands. And that makes sense. But I'm stuck on the supposedly custom steels. As in Spyderco has SPY27. Is a major foundry like Crucible making a powder metallurgy steel like SPY27 just for one vendor? If so, can a foundry even survive off just small orders like this just for the knife industry? Or was this more like a favor done for a vendor? I'm confused on how things are working behind the curtain. I'm sure there's more to this.
 
Maximumbob54 said:
My biggest take away from all this has been that the knife community is basically getting the leftovers from all the industry that has the tonnage demands. And that makes sense. But I'm stuck on the supposedly custom steels. As in Spyderco has SPY27. Is a major foundry like Crucible making a powder metallurgy steel like SPY27 just for one vendor? If so, can a foundry even survive off just small orders like this just for the knife industry? Or was this more like a favor done for a vendor? I'm confused on how things are working behind the curtain. I'm sure there's more to this.
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I believe they are more than capable of doing small batch custom stuff.
 
Maximumbob54 said:
My biggest take away from all this has been that the knife community is basically getting the leftovers from all the industry that has the tonnage demands. And that makes sense. But I'm stuck on the supposedly custom steels. As in Spyderco has SPY27. Is a major foundry like Crucible making a powder metallurgy steel like SPY27 just for one vendor? If so, can a foundry even survive off just small orders like this just for the knife industry? Or was this more like a favor done for a vendor? I'm confused on how things are working behind the curtain. I'm sure there's more to this.
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Bob, it’s not that the knife community has been getting leftovers - hardly the case at all. The issue is that the bulk of what Crucible made was commercial structural alloys and similar, not necessarily particle metal steel. Huge melts at commodity pricing - which they couldn’t necessarily compete in. The PM division was a much smaller part, and although the knife industry represented a substantial portion of that business, that business as a whole was a fraction of the overall business they were doing. REDACTED - my estimation was way off. I blame the voices in my head.
 
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The specialty steel industry is a tiny fraction of the overall steel industry worldwide. We consume about 50 tons of powder steel every month and process another 5 to 20 tons a months for our industrial customers. Nucor melts more than that in the time it take me to type this message. The remaining mills that make powder steel are anxious and ready to support our needs. The cutlery business is a vital part of what we do and we intend to grow it and make it better for years to come.
 
Matthew Gregory said:
it’s not that the knife community has been getting leftovers - hardly the case at all
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I shouldn't have said "leftovers" since it sounds like I'm being intentionally negative about it. I've read on this forum the reason CTS-XHP went away was lack of availability from Carpenter. Combine that with what's been said here and it sounds like the knife industry is dependent on some other industry demanding a bulk of XHP or whatever else or we lose a steel. I'm not sure what to call that kind of relationship.
Matthew Gregory said:
it wouldn’t surprise me if the PM division comprised less than five percent of their overall business.
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Which only makes me curious if custom steels are like a weekend overtime project. Knives are already a small portion of their sales, so how does a niche product in a small portion work out?

Not really expecting answers, just thinking out loud here.
 
Maximumbob54 said:
I shouldn't have said "leftovers" since it sounds like I'm being intentionally negative about it. I've read on this forum the reason CTS-XHP went away was lack of availability from Carpenter. Combine that with what's been said here and it sounds like the knife industry is dependent on some other industry demanding a bulk of XHP or whatever else or we lose a steel. I'm not sure what to call that kind of relationship.

Which only makes me curious if custom steels are like a weekend overtime project. Knives are already a small portion of their sales, so how does a niche product in a small portion work out?

Not really expecting answers, just thinking out loud here.
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We have plenty of XHP. You can email me at bob@nsm-ny.com for pricing. P
 
Maximumbob54 said:
I shouldn't have said "leftovers" since it sounds like I'm being intentionally negative about it. I've read on this forum the reason CTS-XHP went away was lack of availability from Carpenter. Combine that with what's been said here and it sounds like the knife industry is dependent on some other industry demanding a bulk of XHP or whatever else or we lose a steel. I'm not sure what to call that kind of relationship.

Which only makes me curious if custom steels are like a weekend overtime project. Knives are already a small portion of their sales, so how does a niche product in a small portion work out?

Not really expecting answers, just thinking out loud here.
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Well, I need to eat some crow here - got a text from Bob a few minutes ago that said my estimation was way off. Looks like PM accounted for 40% of their business. I could have sworn I read something akin to what I previously posted in a communique, but obviously I’m deluded. Sorry for the bad info - I’ll remove it from my previous post so it doesn’t grow legs.
 
This is almost funny. I'd struggle to find it but I'd swear I read here something about why Cold Steel switched from HXP to S35VN was lack of availability. Maybe I should check myself for parroting of fast facts.
 
Well NSM sells steel so I choose to believe them over anything else! 😁

And patents, copyrights, trademarks, and whatever else, it sounds like we won't be caught lacking for steels. Maybe we're a fraction of the whole sales, but I doubt the need for fancy steels will go away.
 
Maximumbob54 said:
Well NSM sells steel so I choose to believe them over anything else! 😁

And patents, copyrights, trademarks, and whatever else, it sounds like we won't be caught lacking for steels. Maybe we're a fraction of the whole sales, but I doubt the need for fancy steels will go away.
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For Cold Steel , at least , "available " always meant available at the price we are willing to pay .
 
Matthew Gregory said:
REDACTED - my estimation
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oh that's just fine.
this is the decade of the redaction !
you'll fit right in ( which I have never been able to say about my self)

I blame the voices in my head.
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there seems to be a lot of that as well .
wouldn't worry though , at least you'll never feel alone ( which I have . . .)
well in any case cheer'o
🙂
 
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