OhioApexing
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Does your Seb. 21 Damascus pattern disappear?
- Thread starter expidia1
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expidia1
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expidia1 Nicely done! I was considering buying this very one!
I’m this close to buying a CN raindrop from a different seller, but the etching on yours looks much better. Congrats!
The sellers can be tricky as if you take the pic CN or DT dead on right angle to the blade it looks great. I don’t know why CRK chooses their light greyish etching backgrounds as the blacker darker backgrounds really pop the Damascus patterns on some of the other blades Damascus or Damasteel examples members post in various threads.
Hopefully this one will hold a decent value so I can resell it when and if CRK produces Damasteel in a 21.
I almost went for the real light Box Elder on Ebay, but it was too Mammothy looking for my tastes the more I stared at it.
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expidia1
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This was the first one I had my eye on (that I did not buy) . I liked how light it is in color, but that was just how the camera took the pic as another close up showed it was much grainier with a lot of brown through it. But this DT blade showed how the pattern for a raindrop just seems to loop loop along . . . like I mentioned above it was chain link fence looking to me. Surprisingly, the CN version looked more like splattered raindrops to me.
I would like to sort a few comments made above. This discussion is not new and I always wonder how people are making general statements like "Devin Thomas dammy does this", "Chad Nichols dammy does that". What people seem to forget is that both makers do supply their dammy according to specifications given by CRK and what also seem to get lost during discussions is how the production process of a dammy knife blade goes. Neither DT nor CN are supplying ready to be installed dammy blades to CRK. They are supplying billets of whatever size. Then CRK cuts out the blade profile (or has a subcontractor doing this). Then the blade grind is done. Then the blade receives its heat treatment and at the end it will be etched, to bring out the dammy pattern.
This means that the todays appearance of both, DT as well as CN dammy, at CRK blades is a result of the specs given from CRK to DT/CN and of the etching process. Searching the net you will find lots of examples of DT as well as CN dammy blades used by other knife brands, with a different appearance then at CRK dammy blades. Just one example. This is Chad Nichols "blackout" damascus made for Spartan Blades Harsey Folder:
Harsey Folder, 05 by Jedi, auf Flickr
Harsey Folder, 04 by Jedi, auf Flickr
Harsey Folder, 07 by Jedi, auf Flickr
Question is (and only CRK and CN could answer that question), why a CN dammy blade at a Spartan Blades folder has such a different appearance than a CN blade at a CRK folder. Maybe CRK has some good reasons to do so. No idea.
Originally DT was supplying all dammy material to CRK, except a few special editions, where dammy from other dammy smiths has been used. Comparing pics you search at the net you need to be careful not to compare apples with pears. There are different periods of dammy during the last decades. Starting with non stainless dammy, which is always darker and shows more contrast than stainless dammy, due to its higher share of carbon. Additionally those non stainless dammy blades were coated, in order to prevent them from rusting. That coating further stimulated its high contrast appearance.
Then there was a transition period, where they still coated the blades, although already switched to stainless dammy. Accordingly these blades also showed a higher contrast. After stopping the coating the stainless dammy blades at CRK knives showed their more grey than black appearance which we know today.
Still that time DT was the only supplier of dammy to CRK. After the Spirograph pattern was discontinued, Raindrop, Ladder and Basket Weave remained. Until approx. 2012/2013 DT's Raindrop was showing the tight rolls and everybody appreciated that raindrop.
21, UG Morning Sun, Raindrop, 05 by Jedi, auf Flickr
According to DT who commented a thread here at BF a few yours ago about the change in the CRK Raindrop pattern, it was CRK asking him to change. It wasn't him who decided to change. After that decisions the DT Raindrop looked more lose, like this:
21, Bocote, Raindrop, 09 by Jedi, auf Flickr
Many CRK fans started complaining about the new Raindrop, including myself. Many preferred the old tight rolls as that clearly associates with "raindrops". CRK did listen to their customers and I think around 2016/2017 they changed their supply of Raindrop dammy from DT to CN. Ladder and Basket Weave has remained being supplied by DT. Since then we see todays CN Raindrop, which is back to the old days Raindrop, with its tight rolls and that was received very well by the CRK community. But I agree with you, that the CN Raindrop has a lower contrast and seem to "fade" while turning the knife/blade and having the light impacting at the blade from different angles. See:
21, Thuya, Nichols Raindrop, 02 by Jedi, auf Flickr
or ..... same knife
21, Thuya, Nichols Raindrop, 08 by Jedi, auf Flickr
I have no idea whether CRK, in cooperation with CN, is going to change this in future. Again. CN dammy blades at Spartan Blades Harsey Folder do show a mich higher contrast.
Ladder and Basket Weave (still supplied by DT) are not showing this effect. I have seen many examples of Basket Weave, which seem to appear a bit more "shiny" than Ladder. But even among 2 Basket Weave blades you may have variations.
21, Plain, Basket Weave, 11 by Jedi, auf Flickr
Ladder:
21, Elder Burl, Ladder, 07 by Jedi, auf Flickr
21, Gabon Ebony, Ladder, 07 by Jedi, auf Flickr
This is a Sebenza 25 w. Ladder and the dammy is much darker and has higher contrast than usual. Do I know why? No idea.
25, CGG, Ladder, 05 by Jedi, auf Flickr
The lesson I have learned during collecting CRK is that I prefer buying from dealers who are showing pics of their actual knives for sale and not archive pics of previously sold knives or cataloge pics. Because dammy pattern as well as wood color and grain can vary a lot, I prefer to see what I am going to buy.
Hope this helps a bit.
I know this is an older thread but this post just absolutely blew me away...so much knowledge! Thank you! With your experience with both the CN and DT damascus blades from multiple eras, what do you consider to be the best protectant against finger oils and other contaminants that could permanently alter the visual appearance of the blade? I've started using Renn Wax on a DT stainless basketweave blade circa 2017 (which I assume would be an uncoated version?), but have read inconsistent things on this topic. I wanted a knife with extremely bold contrast and relatively consistent 'lines'. I literally, over a few months, visited the websites for EVERY CRK authorized dealer, viewed every picture of every available Mnandi, and sometimes requested knife-specific pictures if they were using a stock image (as I was not going to buy a near-$700 knife that can vary tremendously if I couldn't see the exact one I would get...CRK dealers that don't do this leave me totally perplexed, but that's another story...) It was an exhaustive process but I found exactly what I wanted. Subsequently, I would like to preserve this blade as best I can. Thanks!
expidia1
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I’m not a fan of the wimpy looking Damascus patterns that disappear as soon as you rotate the blade. Some sellers and retail stores will oil them with WD40 which brings out pattern but it quickly wears off. The Minandi’s seem to use bolder patterns. Yours is beautiful, congrats.
From my experience the bolder more beautiful patterns seem to be only produced in limited special runs or sold at the blade shows at highly inflated crazy prices. This is why I prefer Damasteel over Damascus.
Many members display some knives with beautiful bold patterns. I always wondered if the moderators have first shot at those specimens as a bonus for them moderating. I don’t know as its something I‘ve always pondered since some have such extensive CRK collections with rare patterns.
From my experience the bolder more beautiful patterns seem to be only produced in limited special runs or sold at the blade shows at highly inflated crazy prices. This is why I prefer Damasteel over Damascus.
Many members display some knives with beautiful bold patterns. I always wondered if the moderators have first shot at those specimens as a bonus for them moderating. I don’t know as its something I‘ve always pondered since some have such extensive CRK collections with rare patterns.
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My two bits:
The original Devon Thomas Raindrop blade on my 21 plain-Jane cracked at the thumb stud, as many CRK blades do. Just noticed the hairline crack one day.
CRK replaced the blade free-of-charge, but with a Chad Nichols Raindrop blade.
Although the Chad Nichols is a much tighter and more uniform Raindrop pattern, and arguably looks as if it took a lot of skill to achieve, the etch on my CN example was not as deep, and faded more quickly than my DT example. It’s not something I spend much time crying about, but I would say the DT Damascus had a more durable pattern when using the knife, and I lament the blade being replaced based solely on that.
The original Devon Thomas Raindrop blade on my 21 plain-Jane cracked at the thumb stud, as many CRK blades do. Just noticed the hairline crack one day.
CRK replaced the blade free-of-charge, but with a Chad Nichols Raindrop blade.
Although the Chad Nichols is a much tighter and more uniform Raindrop pattern, and arguably looks as if it took a lot of skill to achieve, the etch on my CN example was not as deep, and faded more quickly than my DT example. It’s not something I spend much time crying about, but I would say the DT Damascus had a more durable pattern when using the knife, and I lament the blade being replaced based solely on that.
I do like how Damasteel is so consistent...I bought a Benchmade Damasteel pen, and the specimen I got wowed me just as much as the images. I've never had a knife blade in it but I would definitely buy one. BM Gold Class knives in Damasteel look just stellar. I too have noticed Mnandis tend to have bolder patterns as well compared to the Sebs. I am not sure why but perhaps the shape or thickness of the blade has something to do with stock creation? I've noticed the DT basketweave seems to have the most 'popping' contrast, on average...I am heartbroken CRK discontinued using it as I think it is one of the coolest patterns around.
And thanks! It took a LONG time to find the right one, and while that particular beech inlay wasn't my favorite (I originally wanted carbon fiber), the blade was exactly what I wanted and so I am delighted with the knife. This is the other side showing the handle and damascus lines in a lower light condition. It's got a thin coating of Renn Wax but nothing else.
I purchased it from KnivesShipFree, who lists each damascus CRK they get individually with its own picture set. KnifeArt and DLT also do the same, as do quite a few other CRK dealers (as this is a CRK sub-forum sponsored by CRK, I assume I can mention factory authorized dealers by name?). However, some others have disclaimers on their website that more or less say 'every knife is unique but we will not take pictures of individual knives'. And, indeed, upon contacting them and requesting the ability to choose the specific damascus blade, some stuck by that position even with an offer to first make the purchase before they go through the hassle. That's their rightful choice, but I am not personally purchasing such a pricy knife that can vary so much without first seeing exactly what I am getting!!! After all, these damascus Mnandis are priced higher than my first car! (which doesn't say a lot as it wasn't much of a car by the time I got it, but you get the drift.)
My guess is that some dealers may offer the finest patterns to their best customers who are purchasing insane amounts of CRK products, kind of like how many liquor stores offer the limited Van Winkle bourbons to their best customers as a way of showing their gratitude for the continued business. And I certainly understand that completely.
Eventually, I'd like to get ahold of one of the zebra Mnandis...
I did not know the thumb stud cracking was common but that's awesome that CRK replaced it! How common is this cracking? Have you treated the blade with any sort of protectant or noticed anything helps to preserve the finish? Unfortunately, it seems like many of the things we cut and the very oil on our hands is relatively harsh on the damascus finish.
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It’s not entirely common, but the most numerous blade failures that occurred with CRK blades are a hairline crack at the thumb stud. It is an interference fit, so if the stud is slightly too large, or the hole slightly too small, the tension can cause a crack. It’s not specific to the Damascus blades, nor is it something anyone needs to worry a huge amount about, though CRK has a disclaimer now about putting new thumb studs in old Damascus blades.
I use my knives for food prep often, so do no coating or treatment to the blade. I’ll post some pics tomorrow, of what my L21 raindrop looks like these days. It happens to be my carry for the next few weeks.
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I updated my original post today about EDC’ing a CRK Damascus. You might find out what to expect if you view my most recent pictures:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...f-a-journey-w-june-2020-update.1515437/page-6
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I've been collecting knives for a couple years now and only have a couple demascus blades, so I really don't know much about them. The last one I purchased was a small sebenza 31 and wanted to show a couple pictures of what mine looks like at two angles. Like I said, I don't know much about demascus blades, but had I known it'd look like someone ran an eraser over the blade at certain angles, I wouldn't have bought it. It actually looks much worse than this IRL and doesn't represent quality, in my humble opinion. For $600, I want my blade to look amazing at whatever angle I view it at. I shouldn't see lines on 1/4 of the blade and gray blob on the other 3/4.
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The etch on my CN Raindrop Mnandi came straight off once I polished it with AutoSol, I much prefer it shiny, It's still very much visible, you can still feel it and if you run your finger nail down the blade you can hear it, its still all there, just smoother,
blanco112
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I'm curious what this looks like but imgur is showing an error message.The etch on my CN Raindrop Mnandi came straight off once I polished it with AutoSol, I much prefer it shiny, It's still very much visible, you can still feel it and if you run your finger nail down the blade you can hear it, its still all there, just smoother,
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Oh, ill try and repost
