Edge Pro Sharpening Tips, Mistakes, and Lessons Learned

cudgee said:
More info.😕
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The EdgePro Apex affixes to a work surface with two section cups the rear legs. This works ok, but they can come loose and the front legs aren't secured so they can move up and down a little. The bench mount connects a piece of metal (aluminum if I recall - not near mine right now) toward the back of the EP that can be clamped down to a work bench. So it can only be used on a bench with open space under the surface. It can't be used on a typical counter top.

You then use a clamp to connect the bench mount to your work bench. The result is that the EP feels more secure and stable.

I get that all these little items add up. By the time you add all the accessories it's no longer a lower priced sharpener. The basic Apex + the slide guide, magnet, and bench mount is ~$250, I think. For a lot of people buying a clamped system may be a better way to go. They seem to be more expensive. However, I don't the cost matters as much because you're likely to spend far more on stones than the sharpener.

And you know... I was wrong about the bench mount being first. If you care about your edge angles (it's fine to not care), and angle cube is a must have. If you sharpen a lot of high vanadium steels, a good set of diamond stones is a must have. After those two, the bench mount would be first for me. So depending on your requirements it may be first.

For diamonds I can't recommend the EP diamond stones highly enough. They are a complete game changer in terms of speed of sharpening and edge quality. I have used the heck out of my stones. I've re-profiled at least 40 knives, probably over 50, most of them high vanadium steels, and I've sharpened hundreds of edges. They do show some wear, but just barely. Any concerns about sharping steels like Maxamet and K390 quickly disappear. Those steels become as easy to sharpen as any other steel.
 
David Richardson said:
The EdgePro Apex affixes to a work surface with two section cups the rear legs. This works ok, but they can come loose and the front legs aren't secured so they can move up and down a little. The bench mount connects a piece of metal (aluminum if I recall - not near mine right now) toward the back of the EP that can be clamped down to a work bench. So it can only be used on a bench with open space under the surface. It can't be used on a typical counter top.

You then use a clamp to connect the bench mount to your work bench. The result is that the EP feels more secure and stable.

I get that all these little items add up. By the time you add all the accessories it's no longer a lower priced sharpener. The basic Apex + the slide guide, magnet, and bench mount is ~$250, I think. For a lot of people buying a clamped system may be a better way to go. They seem to be more expensive. However, I don't the cost matters as much because you're likely to spend far more on stones than the sharpener.

And you know... I was wrong about the bench mount being first. If you care about your edge angles (it's fine to not care), and angle cube is a must have. If you sharpen a lot of high vanadium steels, a good set of diamond stones is a must have. After those two, the bench mount would be first for me. So depending on your requirements it may be first.

For diamonds I can't recommend the EP diamond stones highly enough. They are a complete game changer in terms of speed of sharpening and edge quality. I have used the heck out of my stones. I've re-profiled at least 40 knives, probably over 50, most of them high vanadium steels, and I've sharpened hundreds of edges. They do show some wear, but just barely. Any concerns about sharping steels like Maxamet and K390 quickly disappear. Those steels become as easy to sharpen as any other steel.
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Sorry i miss read your post, you meant the Edge Pro Apex, i thought you meant some attachment, sorry for the confusion. But i agree about the Edge Pro, i liked the design so much i have put together my own sharpener based on their model, and it does not need any base clamps, it sits solidly on any bench. But i also agree with you about all the add on features, they soon add up to make any sharpener an expensive unit. Most of the clamp systems have a heap of add on clamps and other accessories which make them very expensive. But one of the first things i did with mine was to make a magnetic base for an angle cube to sit on hands free, so i can adjust the angle properly. Thanks for your input. :thumbsup:
 
These are great tutorials.
Keep them coming.
Thanks for all the work you put into this.
 
cudgee said:
How long ago did you get yours. I checked their website and they only have 2 grits on there.
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I've had them at least two years, maybe closer to 3. I see all the diamond stones when I go to the EP site. It looks like I can add all of them to my shopping cart.

I would suggest that any of you with these stones or considering getting them read this thread started by the guy who makes the stones for EP. Long, but very informative. You could just read the posts from Diemaker and get the best info. I would pay particular attention to his recommendations for dressing them.
 
Most excellent job ;-)
Especially considering the various updates it appears you have done.

Two Constructive Comments:
1) You might consider a short section on one of the most misunderstood principals in fixed sharpening that seems to surface every few years. I did a video reply to illustrate a few years ago. Please read the video notes section for background history on this issue.

Knife Sharpener Jig Debate - Left/Right Angle Change
https://youtu.be/4u1xhuRIWlo​



2) Additionally, the use of a drill-collar-stop for compensation of varying stone thicknesses works well for me (including large thickness changes, like going from a stone + aluminum-stone-blank + adhesive > to a much thinner loaded wood strop).
It would be my guess, those that have issue with using the drill collar stop are not following a set procedure.
Couple Different Examples (A vs. B):
A) If I am simply matching existing bevels, or making small changes I typically start with my finest stone to find the grind on sharpie marked bevel, matching the stone arm angle to the grind bevel. Then set the collar-stop height to that final stone. Beginning with coarse stone, set the stone-arm-elevation (without again touching the collar-stop until completion of sharpening), move through stone progression adjusting stone-arm-elevation for each new stone. If you need to step back three stones, simply reset the stone-arm-elevation for what-ever stone is attached. Set the collar-stop once and leave it.
B) Conversely, you can simply begin sharpening with any stone at any desired angle but just make sure to set the collar-stop (and leave it) before progressing to next stone and adjusting stone-arm-elevation only as needed based on varying stone thicknesses.
Regardless, once collar stop is set it is fixed throughout the sharpening progression.
If stone progression includes stones that are very closely matched in thickness, little if any stone-arm-elevation adjustments need to be made after initial setup.
By using the collar-stop method, any changes to sharpener-table leveling, moving to different location, etc. become negated. Confusion related to electronic-angle-measure, re-zeroing, etc. are removed from the process.

​

 
Does anyone have tips on a knife that has a good size belly and swept tip? Cant seem to get the tip area very well sharpened without drastically changing the angle of the knife as I move the stone closer to the tip.
 
robp said:
Does anyone have tips on a knife that has a good size belly and swept tip? Cant seem to get the tip area very well sharpened without drastically changing the angle of the knife as I move the stone closer to the tip.
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Your question appears to exactly describe sharpening a knife like my Farid K2 (big belly swooping up almost vertically to tip/spine).
K2 Spine Scraping-720Wide.jpg

Understand what is going on that is creating the issue you are experiencing. Couple things to consider from my experience.

1) The blade stock gets thicker approaching the spine. So, as the edge transitions from the belly upwards towards the spine, the blade thickness is progressively getting thicker. So, for the same edge-bevel-angle the bevel will get wider and more material will be removed. Make sure this is clear in your mind, and possibly your perceived problem may disappear or change.

2) Before starting a sharpening determine your specific goals. Consistent bevel angle OR bevel width (can NOT have both if stock thickness varies). Does not apply to straight edged knives like a Wharncliffe.

3) Understand how blade positioning on the table affects bevel angle applied, and how to control the results. The stone arm moves L/R and pivots around a vertical mast and stone rotates around the stone arm such that left and right positioning on the table does NOT affect bevel angle applied (because stone rotates on stone arm the applied bevel stays consistent) - BUT moving further or closer to the vertical mast can change bevel angle applied. 3) relates to two coplanar lines, one through the centerline of the vertical mast and one at the stone/blade contact position. So long as the stone stays on the stones coplanar line the applied bevel angle will not change (by much - more complicated than I want to discuss here). To get an idea of what I am referring to with the coplanar lines, and how moving L/R on the table does NOT affect applied bevel angle I have illustrated in the video link below from a few years back (please read the comments in the video description).

Feel free to PM me if you would like a more specifics about anything I have mentioned, as there are a multitude of situations I can think of beyond what I have specifically described that might be occurring (how you hold the stone arm, what part of the stone is contacting the blade in the belly section, use of marking ink, etc., etc.).

Knife Sharpener Jig Debate - Left/Right Angle Change
 
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IMG_9553.jpeg

Relative sharpening newb here . Have EP apex with the magnet and adjustable 3 pronged blade table . Have sharpened s30v, D3V (CPK), and magnacut without many issues .

Recently sharpened my S45vN inkosi and had trouble getting it screaming sharp . The EP stock stones above 200 don’t seem to do much . I caved and bought EP diamond matrix 250, 650, and 950 . Assuming these are needed for S45vn, S35vn , and m390?

Haven’t attempted to sharpen the Shirogorov in the photo above (m390) but worried about the blade shape (Persian belly), the m390, and the really narrow bevel .

Any tips on how to keep the bevel narrow or is that not possible with the EP Apex ?
 
Jetlau3 said:
Any tips on how to keep the bevel narrow or is that not possible with the EP Apex ?
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There is a sticky thread all about using the Edge Pro on the front page of this thread. Would be worth a read. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
cudgee said:
There is a sticky thread all about using the Edge Pro on the front page of this thread. Would be worth a read. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Read through the whole thing before and not totally sure I understand it still. I think the width of the bevel is a factor of how thick the blade is behind the edge plus the dps sharpening angle. So thin angle means thin blade behind the edge. So theoretically, if I match the sharpening angle with the sharpee technique then I should maintain the thin bevel.

For these types of blades (CRKs, Shiros) that don't have much of a Ricasso, seems like only way to sharpen on Edge Pro is by holding it in steady position on the flat grind and raising the arm to account for the angle of the grind. Basically plan on choosing a position that is repeatable and keeping it the same for both edges.

For m390, planning on using the diamond matrix stones when they arrive and then going to edge trailing passes only at higher grits.

Let me know if there is more that I'm missing --still nervous with a knife this expensive but seemed to have turned out fine on the Inkosi.
 
Question on the diamond matrix stones. i was told when I ordered mine I needed them for harder steels. Used nothing but them for years and they make a perfect edge. They just take FOREVER, even right after leveling and cleaning. I recently bought their proprietary aluminum oxide stones and they remove material 3-4 times as fast on steels up to and including S35VN and Elmax. I dont even use the diamond matrix coarser than 1100 grit anymore. I use the 1100 and sometimes 2300 and 4000 just to finish up after the water stones do all the work. I know aluminum oxide isn’t supposed to work on the harder stuff so it was a hell of a surprise.
 
bedrock said:
Question on the diamond matrix stones. i was told when I ordered mine I needed them for harder steels. Used nothing but them for years and they make a perfect edge. They just take FOREVER, even right after leveling and cleaning. I recently bought their proprietary aluminum oxide stones and they remove material 3-4 times as fast on steels up to and including S35VN and Elmax. I dont even use the diamond matrix coarser than 1100 grit anymore. I use the 1100 and sometimes 2300 and 4000 just to finish up after the water stones do all the work. I know aluminum oxide isn’t supposed to work on the harder stuff so it was a hell of a surprise.
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You got the EdgePro diamond stones? This is not my experience at all. They cut quickly, particularly on steels with a lot of vanadium carbides. How are you leveling/cleaning them?

If the AlOx stones are cutting faster the the diamond stones on S35VN there is an issues. Not clear yet what the issue is.
 
Jetlau3 said:
View attachment 2442025

Relative sharpening newb here . Have EP apex with the magnet and adjustable 3 pronged blade table . Have sharpened s30v, D3V (CPK), and magnacut without many issues .

Recently sharpened my S45vN inkosi and had trouble getting it screaming sharp . The EP stock stones above 200 don’t seem to do much . I caved and bought EP diamond matrix 250, 650, and 950 . Assuming these are needed for S45vn, S35vn , and m390?

Haven’t attempted to sharpen the Shirogorov in the photo above (m390) but worried about the blade shape (Persian belly), the m390, and the really narrow bevel .

Any tips on how to keep the bevel narrow or is that not possible with the EP Apex ?
Click to expand...
The bottom knife seems to have a very obvious burr on the edge. Or maybe something else is going on?

The edge bevel width is function of edge angle and blade thickness at the edge. The Shiro blade is likely thinner behind the edge than the Reeve knives. Np with the EP keeping a small bevel.
 
David Richardson said:
You got the EdgePro diamond stones? This is not my experience at all. They cut quickly, particularly on steels with a lot of vanadium carbides. How are you leveling/cleaning them?

If the AlOx stones are cutting faster the the diamond stones on S35VN there is an issues. Not clear yet what the issue is.
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Yes. They’re Edge Pro diamond matrix. I have the EP leveling plate w both grits. The guy at Edge Pro, don’t think it’s Cody any more, sort of agreed with me. Talking about fixing a really messed up edge, he said he could remove steel faster with the 120 water stone than the 80 DIamond. Ive only had the water stones a few months but every time I use them I kick myself for not buying them years ago. Maybe I just got a bad batch of DM stones when I bought the kit.
 
Jetlau3 said:
Any tips on how to keep the bevel narrow or is that not possible with the EP Apex ?
Click to expand...

bedrock said:
Yes. They’re Edge Pro diamond matrix. I have the EP leveling plate w both grits. The guy at Edge Pro, don’t think it’s Cody any more, sort of agreed with me. Talking about fixing a really messed up edge, he said he could remove steel faster with the 120 water stone than the 80 DIamond. Ive only had the water stones a few months but every time I use them I kick myself for not buying them years ago. Maybe I just got a bad batch of DM stones when I bought the kit.
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Interesting. I haven't directly comparted the EP 120 (not even sure I have one) to the 80 grit diamond. My 80 grit diamond hogs off material quickly. I have reprofiled the edges on high vanadium steel knives at least 30x with it. I can try the 120 if I have it and do a comparison. Will report back once I can do that.

I mostly use bench stones now - have not used my EP in a year or more.
 
D David Richardson The stock EP 120 is fast but it can take a lot force to get enough pressure, especially on hard steel or wide bevels. If the stone doesn't form some mud you aren't getting the top speed from it. From what I understand the Matrix stones take a light touch. A complication in that comparison.
 
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