Ethics of hunting ... should I learn to hunt deer?

By hunting, you are also helping the population of whatever species you choose to hunt. Bag limits are based on population. If a population grows too large, it will not be able to be supported by the land, and will ultimately suffer and starve, as well as other area species.
 
Bumppo said:
Tom Fetter,
Ethics are for people with neighbors so close they can't pee in their own backyard.
Before you tackle the "ethics" of hunting, consider your feelings of guilt when you shoot a deer in the belly and it's screaming sounds like a human baby. If you feel guilt when you buy commercially slaughtered meat, what are you going to feel halfway through the process yourself? Not everyone has the stomach to kill, especially if they have never hunted before. I am very pro-hunting, but it should not be approached lightly.
Buying a farm raised cow from a private farmer might be a better option, or take up hunting small game after lots of practice shooting and familiarizing yourself with the outdoors. Eventually condition yourself and family to eating hunted game. Tossing Bambi on the table of a wife who leans towards minimizing her meat intake seems like folly to me. My intention is not to discourage you, just be very aware of what you are going to be dealing with.
You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and I admire your consideration for other living things.
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Hunting is not an ethical proposition. Those who most often oppose it have no familiarity with the sport or its impact on wildlife. life and death, and the mechanics of trimming the herd and havesting game, are entirely natural and humane. It is the best way by which the population can be stabalized to maintain a healthy diet and reduce the spread of desease. For me the ethical question arises only with respect to your behavior during the hunt.

n2s
 
The concept of "just war" applies a bit here, I think, as it does in many areas. The basic idea is that for a war to be just, there must be "jus in bello" (justice/honour in the cause you're fighting for) and "jus ad bellum" (justice/honour in the way you fight).

Translated to hunting, jus in bello means the discussion about why to hunt - for meat, for taking responsibility, for ecological balance, for understanding our place in the foodchain, etc. I like Munk's comment on it being a rite of passage ... one that I've missed (fishing doesn't count!)

Jus ad bellum would mean making sure that you're competent before shooting, armed with the right weapon for the job, knowing your/your equipment's limitations etc., so that the prey is dispatched as respectfully as possible. Except in survival situations, also rules out stuff like poaching and pit lamping.

I've heard enough good arguments here on both levels to feel on solid ground.
 
Tom?

One last point, if you please.

"Hunting" does not mean "finding," nor does it mean "shooting."

I'm not trying to play some sort of semantic game, but there is a relationship between the person and the environment, the effort, and the abilities which is (don't laugh) almost spiritual. Outdoorsmen experience that, I think.

Chest-beaters or Horn hunters may have specific goals in mind when they go out; but the sportsmen I have known, meat-hunters included, find a satisfaction in the effort of hunting and relate to the fields and woods in a way that many of them would be hard-pressed to articulate. A deer, or a shot at one, is an element in the experience, but only an element.

You may find many older hunters who just want to be there--in that environment--for the effort, the scenes, the scents, the weather, and the evocative sensations of being there and being alive there.

Meat harvest is only one aspect, in my opinion.



Be well and safe.
 
Thanks Kismet. Sounds like sailors and the sea ... sailing is only partially about transportation ...
 
I have been hunting since I was old enough to keep up with my dad and my grandpa, which adds up to about 30 years. I have hunted everything there is to hunt in the southern US and have been lucky enough to hunt other areas of the US and even some other countrys. Now at the ripe old age of 39 I hardly hunt anything except squirrels, raccoons, and quail. I do end up and shoot a couple of deer and a hog or two but they are mainly hunted for meat not pleasure. Deer hunting to me ranks right up there with getting a root canal, if me and my family did not eat so much venison I would not do it, but then again, some people love it.

Everyone has spoken very well about why we hunt and the ethics of sport hunting, that is what we do, none of us are at risk of starving. :p What I thought I would suggest is that you start out small, buy a 22, a good one can be had for around 200 dollars and they are super cheap to shoot. Practice with it, if you are not already an accomplished marksman, then after you can hit what you are shooting at go hunt some small game. Rabbits and squirrels are plentiful in most areas, fun to hunt and very good table fare if prepared right, and most of all it will give you some hunting experience to see if it is something you really want to pursue. Hunting provides a lot of enjoyment for a lot of people but it is not for everyone. Chris

Me and my sweet Ellie girl.:)


EDIT: If you decide to get into hunting, here is a great group of guys and can answer about any question you can come up with about guns or hunting. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/
 
Kismet said:
"Hunting" does not mean "finding," nor does it mean "shooting."
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In my case, "hunting" is more of an alibi to pitch my tent in the snow for a week. Back when I spent alot of time in the woods I didn't hunt much, but things changed and I now need a good reason to be out there. The deer provide me with one and for that reason I am increasingly reluctant to injure any of them.

The last buck that stopped by my blind wouldn't leave. The little bugger kept hanging around and would not respond to low-volumn "Get out of heres" or any amount of arm waving. Chunks of firewood finally drove it off. I figured if my partners observed me passing up that point-blank shot I would just turn into a snob and claim to be hunting Boone & Crockett bucks only.
 
There isn't anything wrong with waiting for the right one Cliff. Is good to let a young one go by and thin out the old bucks or barren doe. We have kind of a standing rule to take out the cripples that may have gotten a leg tangled up in a fence, or a buck with a poor set of horns. The meat is all good.
 
Kismet said:
Tom?

One last point, if you please.

"Hunting" does not mean "finding," nor does it mean "shooting."

I'm not trying to play some sort of semantic game, but there is a relationship between the person and the environment, the effort, and the abilities which is (don't laugh) almost spiritual. Outdoorsmen experience that, I think.

Chest-beaters or Horn hunters may have specific goals in mind when they go out; but the sportsmen I have known, meat-hunters included, find a satisfaction in the effort of hunting and relate to the fields and woods in a way that many of them would be hard-pressed to articulate. A deer, or a shot at one, is an element in the experience, but only an element.

You may find many older hunters who just want to be there--in that environment--for the effort, the scenes, the scents, the weather, and the evocative sensations of being there and being alive there.

Meat harvest is only one aspect, in my opinion.



Be well and safe.
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I like this thread,good reading.

Now to the above...I'm gonna say something you may not like,but I'm gonna say it.
I like to kill,I have my fun in the woods at other times when I'm hunting I'm there to do one thing:Kill period and enjoy doing it;in the past two years I've taken to carry a sword with me whenever I go into the woods,and I find a thrill that makes me feel "alive" when I use the sword to finsh off a "pest" animal that's bothering my cat's....I've yet to use it on deer,but I will.

To me the hunt is incomplete without bloodshed,no reason to be there if there isn't..but then that's just me.
 
After sixty-plus responses from others, let me give you a response from a biologist. Your eyes are in the front of your head like almost other predators; this allows binocular vision and depth perception so necessary for jumping prey. Notice that deer, elk, pronghorns, and cows for that matter are prey animals, and have eyes on the sides of their heads to spot incoming threats. Your teeth are those of an omnivore to eat both prey and plants...You walk upright with both hands free, not for warding off death, but to bring it so that you may eat. We have spent so much time in supermarkets that we have forgotten our roots. Go kill a deer, process the meat yourself, and feed your family on nature's bounty. Better yet, learn to make your own arrows while sitting around in the evening, or if you hunt with a firearm, learn to make your own ammunition. The more you put into the process of obtaining your own food, the more satisfying. Hopefully that satisfaction will cause you to be thankful for your blessings, and to give thanks to the Creator who made all.
 
For me, the hunt is complete without bloodshed. But I'm glad to hear honesty in this thread.

I'm not a 'trophy' hunter, but have no bad feelings about those that are.
I have hunted 'varmints' and will again- and most of that is about killing.

Does morality start with mammals? What of the Priests who sweep the sidewalk ahead of them for insects? Silly?

I wonder how many of our crops are not brought to us by practises that kill both mammal and insect pests?

>>>>>>>

I shot the Coon that got into my trash. I finally had to put the trash in the garage. I stabbed to death the packrat that got into my truck. He did a lot of damage.

Did I tell anyone my Father's packrat story? Dad found a way to offer poisen in such a manner that only the packrats would be affected. I assume he cleared the bodies out of his yard to prevent other animals from eating them. When the packrats were finally gone, Dad felt pretty good.

One day a packrat came by and found a perfectly good garden and yard, fallow, devoid of packrats. "I've reached the promised land." The rat must have thought.
Dad gave up eliminating packrats.

>>>>>>>>>

There is a great difference between the hunting ethics taught, or at least verbalized, by the magazines, and what actually takes place.

I'm not longer shocked. I understand the attitude of those who live in rural places towards wildlife. Wildlife is something to be harvested, like wood or water.

munk
 
I've enjoyed this thread a lot! I'm a new transplant to this state (MO) and don't have the same network of friends as in TN. This will be my first fall deer hunting in MO.

I've been hearing mostly from deer hunters here; anyone hog hunters? I would like to hear some of your feedback too.

Thanks - Keep posting!
 
Krull said:
in the past two years I've taken to carry a sword with me whenever I go into the woods,and I find a thrill that makes me feel "alive" when I use the sword to finsh off a "pest" animal that's bothering my cat's....I've yet to use it on deer,but I will.
.
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Krull, I gather you mean that you might finish off a wounded Deer after it has been taken by rifle or Bow. If this is the case, be very careful if it is a Buck with good horns and still has some life left. Even a doe will fight to the finish and those hoves and horns will do serious damage. We never get close to a downed deer till we have tossed a few rocks at it. Be aware that a Game Warden is really gonna quizz you about a sword. If he even thinks you are trying to take a deer with it, you are in trouble. Lots of rules on legal means and methods.

On the other hand,, hunting with a knife is a whole nother concept...:eek: :)
 
Paddling_man said:
I've been hearing mostly from deer hunters here; anyone hog hunters? I would like to hear some of your feedback too.
Thanks - Keep posting!
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You can hunt hogs any time down this way... Kids had 15 or 20 in their back pasture a couple weeks ago.. Lots of people in the East Texas Piney woods will trap some small ones, feed them out and then butcher. Fine eating..
Just domestics gone wild. and they are rapidly getting out of hand. Invading subdivisions that have sprung up in and around forest areas.
 
Paddling_man said:
I've enjoyed this thread a lot! I'm a new transplant to this state (MO) and don't have the same network of friends as in TN. This will be my first fall deer hunting in MO.

I've been hearing mostly from deer hunters here; anyone hog hunters? I would like to hear some of your feedback too.

Thanks - Keep posting!
Click to expand...

I hunt hogs, if you have any questions fire away.

I also like to paddle, canoes not kayaks though. Chris
 
lol


>>>>>>>>>


I'd love to hunt a hog with a .41

Haven't had the chance yet.




munk
 
Tom, the first time I killed my own meat, I felt a little sad. I had after all, just killed a living vreature. That was a long time back. I am actually proud of the fact that I can go out and hunt ,kill, and process my own food. Itake pride in the fact that I can feed myself without anyone's help. It has a special flavor, and tastes better than anything I could have purchased in a store. I do ,however, only hunt what I eat, and eat what I kill. Try hunting, you will probably find that you enjoy the meat, and find that special sense of pride in feeding yourself without the middle man.Just my .02.
 
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