Fallkniven 3G Steel for Survival?

M

Merost

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May 16, 2009
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A Fallkniven is definetly on my list of knives to buy sooner than later, but I am trying to decide which model I want to get first. Right now I am leaning towards a smaller knife, e.g. the H1 or a Pilot Survival.

My question is: Is the 3G steel option a good or bad thing for a survival knife? Besides increasing the price it also increases the HRC from 59 to 62. I am wondering if that is a good thing for a survival knife??

I love hard steels. I have blades comprised of S90V, S30V, ZDP189 and they are great knives that hold an edge for a long time, but I am always leary about being to hard on them for fear they might chip or break. I use them primarily as slicing and cutting knives. On the other hand I also have blades comprised of CarbonV and 1095, etc that I beat on without worrying too much because I figure they are softer and will hold up better under that kind of use.

So I am thinking would the 3G maybe too brittle (purely supposition) and too hard to sharpen? Or because it is a laminated steel, those issues are negated?

Anyone with a Fallkniven with 3G blade that can comment?
 
Won't address the general question of hardness desirable in survival knives but I have H1 3G,

I've been using on occasions without abuse but without being particularly careful about it and I haven't run into any particular problem so far.

In terms of toughtness from my experience it compares with my VG-10. In terms of edge holding it does seem good although I haven't used it a lot.

One thing about 3G is that it seems pretty ductile.

I also have tested with a Blazen Chef Knife which is SGPS (many people consider 3G and SGPS are the same thing or very similar). I once noticed the edge had deformed, despite the very thin edge and high hardness I was able to push it back straight using the back of a spoon.

Lamination:
might help in terms of blade breaking but doesn't prevent chipping.

Sharpening:
it's complicated: first time I sharpened the knife I wasn't able to get a good edge on it using Japanese Aluminium Oxyd waterstones, then I use A ceramic stone and was able to get a sharp edge in a few swipes. Then I've tried it again and was able to sharpen it even using waterstones.
 
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G'day Merost

I have been using 3G in a number of Fallkniven knives for nearly 5 years now and I personally think highly of the steel.

I've battoned knotty wood with 3G blades..
[youtube]Jkpn1_SaKvc[/youtube]


and sliced through knotts whilst shaving wood for kindling without any rolling or chipping of the edge :thumbup:
[youtube]je8CgtP1-jU[/youtube]

Bear in mind I haven't tested it on concrete, but with a refined edge the 3G hasn't proven to be prone to chipping at all and retains a good working edge through a lot of use :thumbup:

I haven't had a problem in maintaining the edge in the field either.

If there's anything in particular you'd like to know, don't hesitate to ask.



Kind regards
Mick
 
Mick, do you have Fallkniven with a VG10 blade for comparision purposes? Did you chose the 3G over the VG10 version for a particular reason?
 
While VG-10 is a fine steel the SGPS which is used in the TK-1 and others is really a super steel.That's the core of the 3G. SGPS [Special Gold Powder Steel] ,a powder steel that is very hard and very wear resistant but still has good toughness . A fine example of what the best modern metallurgy can provide. While it takes a bit more to sharpen it stays sharp far longer than VG-10.Try it you'll like it !!
To clarify the laminate in a S-1 is a core of VG-10 with 420 on the outside.
The TK-1 has SGPS in the core with VG-1 on the outside.
 
G'day Merost


Merost said:
Mick, do you have Fallkniven with a VG10 blade for comparision purposes? Did you chose the 3G over the VG10 version for a particular reason?
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Yes I have a F2 and model P folder in solid VG10 and a H1 in laminated VG10. All three have been used extensively over the years. IMO, VG10 is a very good steel.

With the exception of the F2, all my using blades (H1/3G, TK2, TK3, TK5) are now all in 3G steel with a refined edge.

For me, edge retention is important in the way I use a knife. I much rather be using the knife to get the job done than need to stop more often to sharpen it and this is where IMO the key difference between the two steels lie.

With the exception of day walks with the kids, all my bush trips last around a week in remote areas where just about all the wood available is seasoned deadfall from hardwoods. Because this wood has been lying on the ground, most of it will have some form of grit (dirt / sand) embedded in the surface of the wood and will quickly strip the edge from most steels I've used, including carbon steels like A2 & 1095. The tools I take in with me see a lot of use in bushcraft with this wood.

In my experience 3G will hold its working edge for about twice as long as VG10 without showing any signs to date of being brittle. As evidence of the ability of 3G to retain a working edge, the shaving kindling video (taken at the end of my last trip) shows the working edge on the TK2 (in 3G) after 5 days of solid use without any touching up of the edge. No Bull Sh#t, just fact :thumbup:

With regards to sharpening, as Dannyboy has already pointed out a handheld DC4 sharpener is all that's needed to return the convex edge to shaving sharp.

To sum up, I personally prefer the 3G for its edge retention without the tendency to be brittle. To be honest, I'd imagine most people would find VG10 to be enough steel.

Hope this helps.



Kind regards
Mick
 
I'm looking to buy an F1 as well. I'll use it in Canada canoe tripping, snowshoeing and skinning an occasional rabbit. I have a budget for the 3g OR laminated. CoS. Which should I go for?? I'm thinking CoS with the F1d... It's actually less expensive than the 3g... Thoughts?
 
SanDanGlokta said:
I'm looking to buy an F1 as well. I'll use it in Canada canoe tripping, snowshoeing and skinning an occasional rabbit. I have a budget for the 3g OR laminated. CoS. Which should I go for?? I'm thinking CoS with the F1d... It's actually less expensive than the 3g... Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I'd love for someone with some actual "hands on" experience to please answer this question. I've been trying to make the same decision for myself.....
 
Just curious as to if you ever found out anything on these two steels as well. I'm looking at that little WM1 in 3G for a little slicer type lightweight neck knife possibly. Thanks,

Brommeland said:
I'd love for someone with some actual "hands on" experience to please answer this question. I've been trying to make the same decision for myself.....
Click to expand...
 
d762nato said:
Just curious as to if you ever found out anything on these two steels as well. I'm looking at that little WM1 in 3G for a little slicer type lightweight neck knife possibly. Thanks,
Click to expand...

I (obviously) never got a reply to my question here in this thread. From what I've been able to gather from a lot of reading is that 3G will hold an edge longer than CoS, but tends to be brittle and chippy. I have no actual hands-on with 3G so I cannot comment any further on it.

I have used my F1's in both VG10 and CoS extensively and can tell you that I have never had any issues with either. The CoS seems to hold an edge somewhat better (than VG10) and according to the Dutch Bushcraft morons on YouTube, is also much less likely to suffer tip breakage. Overall, for it's strength, edge retention, ease of sharpening and ability to take a really sharp edge, CoS is my personal favorite steel for an all-around bushcraft/utility/survival type blade.

I dunno if any of this helps you or not. Good luck!
 
From what I've ran across and read up on it seems that once the edge is reset reground the chipping problem goes away with 3G steel if it is present at all. The Cos is a great steel and easy to keep sharp. I've got a MB in Cos steel but haven't had any time outside with it just yet but it should be a good knife. It's a giant razor. I've got a WM1 coming in 3G and should make for a dandy little neck or pocket type knife.
 
I have all three. 3G is kind of like S90V. Awesome when it is not being a PITA. The abrasion resistance is very noticeable when sharpening and it can take a razor edge. It is very unforgiving of poor sharpening technique. Yes, it can chip, but with a convex edge it is not an issue. I would take Cos hands down every time over the other two.
 
I was thinking the same about the Cos steel but unfortunately the little WM1 only comes in the VG10 or the 3G steel. So I went with the 3G for the WM1, Now you got me thinking differently as maybe I should have just gone with the VG10 version. Hmm!
 
d762nato said:
I was thinking the same about the Cos steel but unfortunately the little WM1 only comes in the VG10 or the 3G steel. So I went with the 3G for the WM1, Now you got me thinking differently as maybe I should have just gone with the VG10 version. Hmm!
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My opinions have evolved over time and my preferences have shifted. I would recommend forgetting what I said and making your own opinion. I preferred VG10 over 3G once upon a time, now I prefer 3G over VG10. They are all good steels it really comes down to what balance of traits you want for the specific knife in question.
 
Well I don't plan on using the little WM1 hard just for cutting softer type material, like a steak maybe. :) How does that DC4 stone work on the 3G steel. I'm not sure why it's not made in Cos also. Thanks,
 
The DC4 is a diamond coated stone with a fine ceramic polishing stone. Diamond works with pretty much any knife steel. It works just fine with 3G.
Fallkniven is a small company. They probably don't want to invest in something they don't sell a lot of. The F2, F3, and F4 are only offered in VG10. The Northern Light series is expensive in VG10 and would likely have poor sales at an higher price point. I think offering the WM1 in Cos is probably not a priority for them.
 
d762nato said:
Well I don't plan on using the little WM1 hard just for cutting softer type material, like a steak maybe. :) How does that DC4 stone work on the 3G steel. I'm not sure why it's not made in Cos also. Thanks,
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Don't worry, it will last!
I have used my WM1 in 3G real hard at work and had to resharpen a few times.
I dropped it tip down right into the concrete floor and it took a bite out of the concrete, but no tip breakage.
I had to resharpen, but the DC + CC stones did the job very well.

IMGP6193.JPG


Regards
Mikael
 
That's a nice looking handle Mikael on your Wm1. I guess you did it up like that? Thanks nice pic.

Doug
 
Thank You Doug!
Yes the handle is homemade.
It was fairly popular to rehandle FK's when the old FK forum was alive.
Jhansenak47 also did some of them.

Regards
Mikael
 
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