Finally got the new article done!

One more note I would like to include. To all the other armchair metallurgist out there, I am well aware of the more involved nature of slip systems, twinning, rational and irrational habit planes, screw dislocations etc… but if I baffled the average readers by loading the thing with strain related formulas and Miller indices, I would be little better than the myth hucksters. Indeed I have seen impressive metallurgical terms used to intimidate would be doubters or questions. My belief has always been that all that is needed to recite the texts verbatim are the abilities of a parrot, but in order to truly educate, one must be able to explain the concepts in terms people can understand.

One of the most frustrating aspects of this type of writing is to have other metallurgically minded people use the general simplicity of such an article to knit-pick and split hairs for what ever ego boosts they receive by getting a technical slice of the action, when we should be on the same side! Which one is worse, leaving out that fcc slip is fond of {111} planes, or telling folks I can hammer my steel denser along the edge? The very basics are all that is needed to blow the latter out of the water. I appreciate the latitude and understanding from all the other metal-heads in this matter.
 
Kevin, some time ago I sent you a photo I took in college of Widmanstatten lines in carburized iron. This is excellent demonstration that things happen [in this case precipitation] along certain preferential planes ! Slip too likes certain planes .
 
Once again, Kevin, Truth is Truth, and fantasy, is fantasy. One would think that in modern knife making, science research, and metallurgy would be the rule. Sadly, black Magic is the over whelming norm among many of the makers. Both Stock removal, and Smiths alike. Fore some reason it has gotten completely out of hand with the forging community. Perhaps it's the old magic of fire and steel. It is nostalgic, and a hell of a lot of fun. Just no magic. Steel is Steel. From the worst, to the best. No amount of black magic will change that. I fear that your writings will never really see the light of day. Too many have too much to loose! Mike ON a side note, regarding your enlightenment on the Damascus steel of the orient, as opposed to Europe, we all know that it was invented he in the States just 30 some odd years ago. Or at least re- discovered:jerkit:. Without this, many feel the ABS would never have been formed in the first place. Many feel that the whole thing got started on a lie. I don't feel that harshly, but it sticks in many of our craw's. It wasn't discovered here, It wasn't re-discovered. It was never lost. It was being made all over the world. We Americans like anyone else have a certain amount of vanity, and think when we do something new, and pleasing to us, We invented it. it is really arrogance, and ignorance of the world around us. The supposed inventor, simply didn't know what was going on in the world around. him. He, and the Publications were, and still are in their own little world. Ignorant of what the big Picture is. As part American Native, We know this one well. By the time America was discovered, My fore fathers had been living here for many centuries. It's just that my other fore fathers, thought they discovered it, and owned it. (which ever country was landing at any given time) Looks like that lie won out! So be careful!!! Mike Lovett
 
Perhaps in a few more months I may be willing to join in on the pattern welding debate, but right now that topic may have some spots that are a little too tender for some. Politics is politics, the man with the best P.R. will always win in this business, it is not always sinister, and I myself have wished I could have got there first at times. In the sword business we often have to hear colleges called the best or greatest smiths in the world because of some gimmick that quite honestly does not impress me much at all, but we have to quietly swallow it because they are nice guys who didn’t self proclaim the title, but do enjoy the spotlight. Who should get credit for setting a trend, is often open to debate. I prefer to take on clearer cut denials of reality, which is why I will stick to the topic of my article on this one.
 
You mean forging by the light of a full moon is'nt neccisary? Man think of all the times I could have been forging!:D

A good read Kevin, thanks.
 
It was a nice article Kevin and very well written, even so a missouri hillbilly could understand most it and again I learned more from your generous time and hard work dedicated to educate.

Bill
 
Most informative and enjoyable Kevin. My sincere thanks for taking the time to put that together.

Roger
 
By the way, Dan thank you very much for the coding advice, I was preparing to incorporate it when I received an e-mail with my article attached and the coding all fixed for me. We have some very kind and generous folks here on this forum. While I have encountered many a knifemaker that will tell a whopper to sell a knife, I have enocunter only a few jerks in all my years, some of the best folks I have ever met are knife people and don't ever let my writings imply otherwise.:thumbup:
 
RogerP said:
Most informative and enjoyable Kevin. My sincere thanks for taking the time to put that together.

Roger
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It was selfish on my part- I got tired of writing the same aswers over and over again and longed to have an article I could just point to and relax:D
 
(I never have claimed a stock removal blade was inferior or superior to a forged blade, but I do believe that if everyone thought a stock removal blade was the best you could get then the knife making world would soon loose out and everyone would buy from places like wal-mart.)
"I Don't recall ever seeing any custom or hand made knives at WM. Did I miss Something. As to the Science not explaining everything, It very much so does indeed. All you have to do is study your craft, and the metallurgy. If you don't know why something is happening in your work, it doesn't follow a set of rules. and is mostly unrepeatable.9 In truth, it always does) As Loveless once said, "We aren't looking for happy accidents, but predictable results." This my friends is being a professional, Without this, we are nothing more than a shade tree mechanic. If you don't know why end up at a given or for that matter result, find out. Trust me on this one. There is a reason under the sun for everything. It is our job's to find the reasons, and methods, to give the customer the best of our abilities, each and every time. Not just when the moon is full. Science is knowledge. Every thing else is just superstition. I'm shocked that some one would suggest that flim flam (just another work for a lie to dupe the unwary into buying an inferior, or usless product) in OK. If your product is competent, and or superior, you don' need flim flam. In fact it cheapens your name, and your work in the eyes of users, and collectors alike. Mike
 
Excellent article. My fascination with forging has nothing to do with considering it to be a better way of making a blade. It all has to do with the history of fire and steel.

I imagine your writings are something that many in the world of forging wished did not exist, but I for one think it is very important that information like that provided by you in that article is made available to everyone. I have a basic understanding of metallurgy and really appreciate your ability to present information in a way that the layman can understand.
 
The specific meaning of the word "incompressible" when used with Poisson's ratio was a problem that got by me in simplifying the terms for the article, causing me to replace it with "not condensible", the original intended meaning is still the same but I will not be leading folks astray should they ever have to crunch the numbers for stress strains curves and compression.

I love the internet for the flexibility to do this, and can sympathise with anybody who has to allow editors to butcher their work before going print. The changing of one single word can have profound effects on metallurgical articles and it is scary to think of what a careless editor could make you look like. It may only be a webpage, but you know exactly what ti will say when it is done;)


Mike, I believe a lot of the miscommunication on whether science can explain everything comes from when folks try to apply it to things that are outside of the realm of physical measurement. Faith, belief, the dark workings of the mind and the human heart are not quantifiable by science, that is why religion can co-exist quite comfortably with science if we let it. The real trouble comes in when we try to apply one to the other.

Why do we get warm fuzzy feeling when we got the lines all running correct on a blade? Why do we get a uneasy feeling about the forging that we did that one day? These can be realiable tools if we recognize them as fully within the realm of feeling, hunch and intuition. How hard steel is, how complete our austenite solution was, how we actually quantify the end material properties, these are hard science and keeping our feelings out of it is the way that science can indeed provide all of the answers.

When I grind a blade from barstock it feels like so much sterile processing to me, but pattern welding and shaping a glowing blade under the hammer is so much like putting life into a lifeless metal that it often feels "organic" to me. That is why I forge. What is going on in me science cannot account for, what is going on in the steel science can explain entirely. When the variables get too numerous some folks can get the two confused.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
What is going on in me science cannot account for, what is going on in the steel science can explain entirely. When the variables get too numerous some folks can get the two confused.
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Very well said, Kevin. :thumbup:



Someone should start a "MythBusters: Bladesmithing & Knifemaking" website/page/thread/etc....
 
Well said indeed!!! I sure don't look very sterile when I walk out of the shop!;) I feel much the same way. Especially when I pull off a particularly difficult grind. Loveless really has me over a barrel on some of these!! :thumbup: Mike
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
By the way, Dan thank you very much for the coding advice, I was preparing to incorporate it when I received an e-mail with my article attached and the coding all fixed for me. We have some very kind and generous folks here on this forum. While I have encountered many a knifemaker that will tell a whopper to sell a knife, I have enocunter only a few jerks in all my years, some of the best folks I have ever met are knife people and don't ever let my writings imply otherwise.:thumbup:
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no problem Kevin, glad to help in anyway I can..I thought about doing the same but was sure someone would do it first by the time I'd have the time to do it in the first place..:confused: :) anyway I'll have to look at the coding again to see what all they did..:)

I got back to this thread late , for some reason I'm only getting e-mail notifications from only a few of the threads I've posted in, I'm not sure to why that is..?:confused:
I can't remember them all so I'm sure I've missed something anyway
but I'm getting more work done :D
great job you're doing thanks again :thumbup:
 
Kevin I looked at the coding
it looks good but I'm not sure why the lack of key word to page relevancy
it's really needed if you hope to hit the top of the search engines and directories, if not wanting this, then your good to go,:thumbup:
in turn you can't complain about free work.:thumbup: .

just to point out what the right key wording and page relevancy can do for you,,this is for information only and I'm not putting other guys work down but
only to inform more can be done if you want to list well..it's the same as knives the more you do it and study it the better you get at it.

I'll stay away from custom made knives for this..
go to yahoo and Google and type in ( mind you this is all free listings nothing was paid for.).
custom made wallets and see who's on top or very close to it.
front page with just key words "custom wallets" :) I hack the heck out of my pages to confuse other webmasters :D not that I'm am one mind you..:) yes it looks like a shameless beep beep..:eek:
by the way I'm not taking any more web work so this is not a ploy to get more of it..
 
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