Forged In Fire

The Virginian said:
I am not sure you meant to imply that Tom Mayo's knives are overpriced. I hope not. No one pays anyone for how much work you do. They pay for the product and the results.

I agree with your sentiment against folks picking on the participants - and especially not being a dick about it. And I do so as someone who has actually been watching this show. But I really have not seen anyone bashing the participants here on this thread. Have I missed something?

That having been said, I could understand how some folks could be critical of the knives that have been produced without attributing that to jealousy or envy. Maybe you should watch the show first?.
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answered in order;

-Absolutely not. I was saying that exceptional knives made by blade smiths with as much tenure and who are held in as high regard as Tom Mayo often don't command more than a comparatively less complicated knife made by any of the great folding knife makers whose knives have set benchmarks wrt pricing. I was placing Tom at the top, not the other way around, as you suggested I might be.

-this show is being talked about all over the place. This forum is a tiny microcosm for broad discussions which are followed by many who do not ever participate. Things here resonate outward, and I felt that as a regular of the forum, it ought to be stated by someone that slagging the participants was something at least one person in this forum disavows. I took that cue from Mr. Farrell and other guys I know who participated, and others who support the overall intent of the show who witnessed some harsh treatment in other venues by those who they expected support from. I support the overall intent of the show, and especially those who are willing to participate in it, without reservation, and I don't have to watch the show in order to maintain that position.

-again, I was specific about the particular actions of some to diminish the participants. My statement was not a blanket statement directed to everyone who is critical of the show or the knives produced. I was clear about that. It's almost like someone's commenting on my written statements without reading them...


To bring back the most important, (to me) point I was trying to make- I think this program, and programs similarly tuned to reach an 'unsophisticated' audience, will have the net effect of raising the benchmark pricing for forged knives. It's high time for it, I see it already happening and overall it's a good thing which will allow the craft to surge forward. This program is also the product of a steadily growing popularity of forged blades in our society, a growing popularity that has been nurtured responsibly since Scagel, Moran et al, by similarly visionary smiths.
 
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Kevin, I have participated in both and I did say "Two" hours for the BOTBS. I did know what I was using and I picked the size knife I wanted to make in BOTBS and they picked the size of the knife we were to make in FIF. The 25 lb little giant was a joke and the press made it flat. They only allowed us 3 of our personal tools on the show. I had rather have a hundred interested hammer in attendees watching me than a camera stuck in my face every time I move. I understand their need to get as much on film as possible. The show is made in the editing and could have been
I do agree with most of your assessments on improving the show.
 
I have enjoyed the couple of episodes I've seen. Matthew Parkinson's sword was the highlight for me, I thought it was quite well done, especially given the constraints.
There are two main issues I see: One, those forges are too hot for heat treating, and beyond that, the light is too bright- hell, I don't even see anyone using a magnet. Do they have any in there? Could there perhaps be one forge for heat treat, at a lower temp or adjustable? Could that area have a shade, or less intense lighting?
I've seen the show compared to "Chopped" several times. I'm assuming contestants are unable to adjust the forges; would it make any sense for "Chopped" to not allow adjustment of cooking temperatures? Temperature control is just as important with HT'ing knives as it is with baking or burners in cooking.
I understand that perhaps it's that way on the show to heighten drama, as I feel cracked blades are pretty unusual for an experienced bladesmith. But, I don't enjoy seeing that and I think it's unfortunate. I didn't see any thermal cycling going on either, which confounds me a little- running that hot, I'd think those guys would have at least normalized once before heating for the quench. Maybe they did, and it wasn't shown.
My other issue is what Paul mentioned- the portrayal of blades as weapons at nearly every opportunity. I understand that it gets ratings, but there is certainly room for the approach to be more balanced. We in the knife world often have problems with our work being seen as inherently violent in some way, or with draconian laws being passed about what is legal to carry or own. I am comfortable enough with that part of bladesmithing that has been and continues to be involved with weapons, but let's not reinforce any lurid notions about knives being foremost implements of violence.
I do enjoy the show, and have no wish to denigrate any of the participants- I think they are doing what they can with what they've been given. I'm looking forward to seeing Mareko on the show- I don't know how much weapon smithing he's done, but I know he's a hell of a smith and will no doubt use his brain to advantage, as well.
 
csfarrell said:
I'm just going to agree with Lorien and his friends words. As a contestant I debated the pros and cons of doing the show both for my own meager reputation and more importantly this craft I love that has done so much for me. When I met my fellow contestants I was greeted as a peer, as a brother by other craftsmen with a love for what we do. All of them had the same concerns as I. They were incredibly nervous, we had no idea what we were walking into, they're biggest concern was not how they would look but how the show would portray our craft and the people in it. For some of them it was so much so that it effected their performance which is unfortunate because I looked at their work and it's fantastic.
We were worried the show was going to make our craft of Bladesmithing and Blacksmithing look like a joke. But here's the twist it doesn't those at the show seem to be doing their best not to, trying to focus on the nature of the competition and keep it entertaining for the viewer. They have gone out of their way to portray us well. Our peers however, that is another story all together. The real embarrassment here is how you are behaving, attacking your fellow makers and enthusiasts the way you have makes me sick. You have no idea what those guys were going through, but you have made at least one of their nightmares come true. To be attacked by the people they respect and admire in some cases look up to. Judging people off the limited screenshots of a tv show that are often out of order under circumstances you are clueless about projecting a shitty elitist attitude like your way of making a blade is the only way. Let me remind you there are a lot of ways to make a blade a lot wrong ways as well but there is no one way. Your the embarrassment to the craft, your critical monday morning quarterbacking elitist attitude is what is embarrassing and I'm glad the " unwashed masses " as someone put it are not on most of our "community" forums to see it. I am not the greatest Bladesmith in the world nor do I want to be. I do this because I love it, I do this to be better tomorrow than I am today. Words are not my strong suite but I can not watch my fellow craftsmen be treated this way. I have always found other makers to be incredibly supportive of each other please remember that, and what we are truly about.
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I'm that someone :D
I was referring to the broad base demographic that will watch the program because of the network it is on. People who are clueless about custom knives, the culture and the huge amounts of sweat, learning and work that goes into each one. Those people will come away with a totally skewed idea that will reflect badly on the craft and the contestants.

NOT picking on the contestants, judges or people that declined appearing on the show.
I am slamming the same old tired format.

GaryFlorida said:
the public doesn't care about craftsmanship, they don't want to learn anything, they want to see heartbreak and failure with a king crowned at the end. Hey buddy, you know that knife you have been working on for 2 hours? Well guess what...it's 2 inches short so now what are you going to do?
does this sound familiar?
"one by one the bladesmiths will be eliminated until only one remains to be crowned the champion."
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Exactly.

They could show the smith's previous work and discuss the effort put into the examples to set a baseline for the rest of the show.
 
I enjoyed the episode tonight. I thought the two finalists did a very nice job given the limitations that are placed on them by the show. I do not believe that the unwashed masses in general would get any sort of bad impressions from tonight's episode, at least.

Some of you who are critical of this show might consider that in other hands, they could have made it a LOT worse. Reality shows thrive on manufactured "villains" and they could have gone that route. But so far, they have not tried to portray any of these guys in a bad light as a jerk, egomaniac, backstabber (pun noted ;)), cheat, etc. They have come off as dedicated, passionate, talented, honest, hardworking men . . . albeit with an abundance of facial hair. :D

My wife and daughter do not really understand my fascination with knives. So I really appreciate the fact that they do like to watch this show with me. I get to share a little bit of my passion for knives with them that way. And really, even among reality shows, there are not a whole lot of TV shows any more that are family friendly, without a ton of sexual discussion or innuendo, profanity every few seconds, general human nastiness, etc. Who would have thunk that show about knife-making would actually be one of the more family friendly TV shows?
 
The Virginian said:
I enjoyed the episode tonight. I thought the two finalists did a very nice job given the limitations that are placed on them by the show. I do not believe that the unwashed masses in general would get any sort of bad impressions from tonight's episode, at least.

Some of you who are critical of this show might consider that in other hands, they could have made it a LOT worse. Reality shows thrive on manufactured "villains" and they could have gone that route. But so far, they have not tried to portray any of these guys in a bad light as a jerk, egomaniac, backstabber (pun noted ;)), cheat, etc. They have come off as dedicated, passionate, talented, honest, hardworking men . . . albeit with an abundance of facial hair. :D

My wife and daughter do not really understand my fascination with knives. So I really appreciate the fact that they do like to watch this show with me. I get to share a little bit of my passion for knives with them that way. And really, even among reality shows, there are not a whole lot of TV shows any more that are family friendly, without a ton of sexual discussion or innuendo, profanity every few seconds, general human nastiness, etc. Who would have thunk that show about knife-making would actually be one of the more family friendly TV shows?
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:) :) :)
 
I have come around on the show after listening to a lot of the makers on here including some who were on the show. I really wish that they would make a greater effort to explain this shouldn't be considered representative of the maker's real work.

I really liked someone's suggestion of letting them show off a competed piece during the introduction.
 
I like the show, haven't seen the last episode yet due to no cable but am able to stream the reruns. My wife even watched it and liked it which tells me that the general public might just enjoy the show. She won't watch 10 minutes of "how to" videos with me.
It looks like they are introducing advanced tools now, I see a hydraulic press with squaring dies and somebody that seems to know how to use it. Thats going the right direction IMO to what we do and why we charge higher prices.
The "killing weapon" parts scares me because I see knives as an art form but lets face it, they were used to kill and kill well in a battle. I don't think peanut butter was invented before the knife was.
We makers would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we badmouth this show. I want to see more.
 
I enjoyed the episode tonight. I thought the two finalists did a very nice job given the limitations that are placed on them by the show. I do not believe that the unwashed masses in general would get any sort of bad impressions from tonight's episode, at least.

Some of you who are critical of this show might consider that in other hands, they could have made it a LOT worse. Reality shows thrive on manufactured "villains" and they could have gone that route. But so far, they have not tried to portray any of these guys in a bad light as a jerk, egomaniac, backstabber (pun noted ), cheat, etc. They have come off as dedicated, passionate, talented, honest, hardworking men . . . albeit with an abundance of facial hair.

My wife and daughter do not really understand my fascination with knives. So I really appreciate the fact that they do like to watch this show with me. I get to share a little bit of my passion for knives with them that way. And really, even among reality shows, there are not a whole lot of TV shows any more that are family friendly, without a ton of sexual discussion or innuendo, profanity every few seconds, general human nastiness, etc. Who would have thunk that show about knife-making would actually be one of the more family friendly TV shows?
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I enjoyed your post Ken. You made some good points. Thanks
 
Ken's statement about the program potentially being much worse is spot on.
I watched the last program and thought it was better than episode 2.
I'll hope the producers and editors are just hitting their stride and making improvements as they go.
 
just watched it. Loved it.
we watch Chopped all the time, and it seemed like this show was produced by the same folk.

I really enjoyed the judges' humor and empathy for the contestants, and I admired the contestants humility- especially in comparison to what I see on Chopped.
The efforts put forward by those guys was really impressive, and the depiction of how those decisions were made was instructive and impactful.

Overall, I found it delightful :)

In agreement that a very quick intro of each dude with something he/she's already made would be a nice addition. Like they do on Chopped.
 
i watched two of the shows, and when the time was up, they had just quenched the blades. do you think they tempered them off camera or were the tests done at full hardness ?
 
I've watched all the episodes and the show is growing on me. Can't expect them to stop trying to create drama, that is the producer's job. It's odd that everything must be called a weapon, even a traditional camp knife. I was happy to see the young Asian dude win as he had so little with which to work. I liked his attitude. Still stand by my (and others') opinion that all would be better if we were given a glimpse of each makers' regular work during the intro. I'll stay tuned.
 
While I have yet to watch an episode, what I undertand to be a pretty relentless weapon / stab / kill / maim / dismember / general mayhem theme makes me disinclined to do so. If anyone thinks that sort of hype is good for custom knives, well, let's just say I take a different view.
 
woodster said:
i watched two of the shows, and when the time was up, they had just quenched the blades. do you think they tempered them off camera or were the tests done at full hardness ?
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A contestant here said that the show allegedly tempers the blades for them overnight.
 
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