One of the first, post-WWII redesigns of the combat dagger was the Gerber MkII. If my memory is correct (always suspect these days) the original version of this knife came out around 1962 which was also the time I hit SF Training Group. They sold them at the Smoke Bomb Hill book store. That original version had a carbon steel blade that could be blued and the canted blade feature that no one ever liked and was eventually dropped.. Somebody put a whole lot of thought into designing that knife, and I've always wondered about the background of it. Anyone know who designed it, when, or who made the decision to put this pure, killing knife into production? Because this knife is a no compromise weapon, it has just about zero utility as a tool in the field, and never went over too well with the troops it was designed for. I still love it however, and think that it actually is quite an improvement over the Fairbairn Sykes. Leigh
Gerber MkII
- Thread starter wlf
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I served with 6th Force Recon, a Marine Corps Reserve unit stationed in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, during the middle 1960's.
We always had a few "old salts" cycling through.
I remember one of them had an original MkII, with the "cant" in it, as Leigh describes it.
The cant seemed to make the grip more effective, so that a person could hold onto the knife better and apply more thrust in an all out mindless do or die situation.
We perceived this knife as having "mystical" qualities, which somehow transferred to the possessor of the magical blade.
What can I say?
Eighteen years old.
In any event, one could not find this knife for sale, anywhere, and when Gerber took the cant out its production MkII's I felt as though an era had passed.
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Gene Osborn of CenterCross Metalworks made a heavy dagger for me and it has a slight cant to it.
It feels really good.
We always had a few "old salts" cycling through.
I remember one of them had an original MkII, with the "cant" in it, as Leigh describes it.
The cant seemed to make the grip more effective, so that a person could hold onto the knife better and apply more thrust in an all out mindless do or die situation.
We perceived this knife as having "mystical" qualities, which somehow transferred to the possessor of the magical blade.
What can I say?
Eighteen years old.
In any event, one could not find this knife for sale, anywhere, and when Gerber took the cant out its production MkII's I felt as though an era had passed.
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Gene Osborn of CenterCross Metalworks made a heavy dagger for me and it has a slight cant to it.
It feels really good.
Some printed material came with that first version which explained some of it's special features. As I recall there were two reasons for the canted blade. One was that it was supposed to fit better next to the calf if carried on the boot. I think the other reason had something to do with reaching around from behind and stabbing up under the ribcage to the heart. But now that I think about it, maybe it was there for the same reason that mantador swords are bent: if you held the knife with blade paralel to the ground and thrust straight forward, the cant in the blade would make up for the natural bend of the wrist and result in the blade being in line with the forearm. Anyway, it took a lot of guts for a commercial knife manufacturer to put out such a specialized, deadly knife. In those days it stood out like a tarantula on a piece of angle food cake. (I stole that line from Raymond Chandler.) By the way, I notice that Gerber is offering a special, limited edition of the knife, price about $235. Leigh
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A classic of its time. It had that cats tongue finish to the handle.
Original design was by retired Army captain living in the Portland, Oregon area.
The 5-degree cant was designed with the thought process of the blade being inserted into the small of the back and up into the kidney region for quick kill. Blade design was designated a "wasp" pattern like that of the stinger found on wasps. Handle featured a "cat's tongue" coating for better grip when wet. Gerber produced the blade after its then in-house designer, Al Mar, went over the original design and cleaned it up.
The MK2 became a favorite fighting knife for troops in VN due to its being the right design at the right time for the right price. It was commonly found in the PX system. A number of forces used it and indeed the knife had / has that mystical "feel" to it even to this day.
Post VN the knife was removed from the PX system as its killer image was deemed unpopular. Al Mar again came to the rescue and straightened the blade, added the sawteeth feature, and encouraged Gerber to market the knife as a "survival" knife. They did, and it was let back into the PX system. Mar also then designed the MK1 boot knife, another very popular model. The basic MK1 then became a very much enhanced and far more lethal AMK FANG in two models. This after Mar left Gerber to open his own firm.
Drawbacks to the Gerber included ease of resharpening and a very short stick tang that sometimes simply gave way when the knife was thrown or pried with. It's needle like point also tended to snap off under lateral stress or sharp impact.
Mike Echanis made the MK2 his knife of choice and it saw wide coverage in Soldier of Fortune and the Echanis line of self defense manuals from O'Hara Publications.
The MK2 was released by Gerber with a yellow handle and dive sheath and offered as a dive knife. Very rare these days to find one.
A very neat piece of historical bladeware.
The 5-degree cant was designed with the thought process of the blade being inserted into the small of the back and up into the kidney region for quick kill. Blade design was designated a "wasp" pattern like that of the stinger found on wasps. Handle featured a "cat's tongue" coating for better grip when wet. Gerber produced the blade after its then in-house designer, Al Mar, went over the original design and cleaned it up.
The MK2 became a favorite fighting knife for troops in VN due to its being the right design at the right time for the right price. It was commonly found in the PX system. A number of forces used it and indeed the knife had / has that mystical "feel" to it even to this day.
Post VN the knife was removed from the PX system as its killer image was deemed unpopular. Al Mar again came to the rescue and straightened the blade, added the sawteeth feature, and encouraged Gerber to market the knife as a "survival" knife. They did, and it was let back into the PX system. Mar also then designed the MK1 boot knife, another very popular model. The basic MK1 then became a very much enhanced and far more lethal AMK FANG in two models. This after Mar left Gerber to open his own firm.
Drawbacks to the Gerber included ease of resharpening and a very short stick tang that sometimes simply gave way when the knife was thrown or pried with. It's needle like point also tended to snap off under lateral stress or sharp impact.
Mike Echanis made the MK2 his knife of choice and it saw wide coverage in Soldier of Fortune and the Echanis line of self defense manuals from O'Hara Publications.
The MK2 was released by Gerber with a yellow handle and dive sheath and offered as a dive knife. Very rare these days to find one.
A very neat piece of historical bladeware.
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Al Mar also made the Shadow daggers, the longer one being my favourite dagger of all. The F/S commando dagger was refered to as a survival knife when first issued. 
Thousands of Gerbers were sold especially the small Guardian. The Wilkinson F/S commando tip broke often and so the Gerbers were seen as a tougher option. I think the EK, remember them, were the toughest.
The Gerbers were made to a cost and could be broken. The sheaths were typically not very good either. I think most succumbed to being thrown into trees too often. Mine did
Thousands of Gerbers were sold especially the small Guardian. The Wilkinson F/S commando tip broke often and so the Gerbers were seen as a tougher option. I think the EK, remember them, were the toughest.
The Gerbers were made to a cost and could be broken. The sheaths were typically not very good either. I think most succumbed to being thrown into trees too often. Mine did
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While I've managed to bend the tip of my Mk II I've never lost my grip. How was the cat's tongue done? Why hasn't anyone else used it? Along with neoprene I've found the cat's tongue to be the most stable grip material/surface I've used; and the handle shape is a natural fit.
Esthetically it's a beautiful blade - the coke bottle shape looks a lot like an area-ruled fighter from above; it seems to be moving even when laying on a table
Esthetically it's a beautiful blade - the coke bottle shape looks a lot like an area-ruled fighter from above; it seems to be moving even when laying on a table
Thanks to Sierra912 and all others for the info on this knife. I've wondered about it for almost forty years. The best combat knives always have design input from people with real combat experience (the FS and Randall 14 for example). Interesting that the tang was too short, because a lot of effort obviously went in to making sure the blade wouldn't break off at the guard which was the weak point of many other production knives. I have always thought the tang went all the way through to the end, and it kind of bums me out that it doesn't. I think that those first models were made out of L2 steel or something like it which is very tough. The special edition model is made from 154CM which I don't really care for. I ordered one of those MkII special edition versions anyway. It will go with my M3, FS, and a few other odds and ends in what I am now calling the "Toys of my Youth" collection. (Getting old kinda sucks, but at least I ain't working too hard.) Leigh
1. Let the reader take a pencil in hand, close his eyes, find the most comfortable position for his wrist, open his eyes and look at the two angles of the pencil in relation to the extended line of his forearm.
The pencil should cant upwards at about a 36 degree angle and outwards at about an 18 degree angle.
2. Let the reader take a pencil in hand, look at something across the room, close his eyes and point the pencil at the object across the room, open his eyes, and notice where the pencil actually points.
3. Let the reader imagine himself a world class gymnast, able to do a handstand with one hand on the point of a knife; imagine a perfectly straight knife; and, in comparison, imagine a knife with a 5 degree cant inwards, towards the inside of the forearm.
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In the best of all worlds, a thrusting dagger such as the Gerber MkII would have a 36 degree bend in the edge axis and an 18 degree bend in the flat axis; the direction of the 18 degree bend would make the knife either right or left handed.
The apperance of this knife would freak everybody out, until they held it, and it would not lay flat against the body or the leg of the person carrying it.
These bends, optimized for thrusting, would improve the backhand slash, improve the forehand draw cut, decrease the forehand slash, and yet come close to giving the blade a modicum of hacking ability, as in a featherweight Kukri.
The 5 degree bend in the flat axis represents the most that Gerber thought the typical buyer's awareness would accept or carry.
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A thrusting dagger corresponds to a broadhead arrow.
We accept the fragility of the broadhead arrow because we understand its design purpose to create a wound channel in soft flesh, and that we cannot use a broadhead arrow as a general-purpose tool.
A wasp-waisted dagger cuts going in and, because the wound internally conforms to the waist of the blade, the wider fore-portion cuts again on withdrawal.
Additionally, one can think of the wasp-waist in terms of aerodynamic or hydrodynamic drag.
We want the wide fore-portion of the blade to penetrate as deeply as possible, and so we do not want any unnecessary drag behind the widest point of the blade.
Therefore, the blade "falls away" after the widest fore-portion passes through the opening of the wound.
Think aerodynamically.
The pencil should cant upwards at about a 36 degree angle and outwards at about an 18 degree angle.
2. Let the reader take a pencil in hand, look at something across the room, close his eyes and point the pencil at the object across the room, open his eyes, and notice where the pencil actually points.
3. Let the reader imagine himself a world class gymnast, able to do a handstand with one hand on the point of a knife; imagine a perfectly straight knife; and, in comparison, imagine a knife with a 5 degree cant inwards, towards the inside of the forearm.
-----
In the best of all worlds, a thrusting dagger such as the Gerber MkII would have a 36 degree bend in the edge axis and an 18 degree bend in the flat axis; the direction of the 18 degree bend would make the knife either right or left handed.
The apperance of this knife would freak everybody out, until they held it, and it would not lay flat against the body or the leg of the person carrying it.
These bends, optimized for thrusting, would improve the backhand slash, improve the forehand draw cut, decrease the forehand slash, and yet come close to giving the blade a modicum of hacking ability, as in a featherweight Kukri.
The 5 degree bend in the flat axis represents the most that Gerber thought the typical buyer's awareness would accept or carry.
-----
A thrusting dagger corresponds to a broadhead arrow.
We accept the fragility of the broadhead arrow because we understand its design purpose to create a wound channel in soft flesh, and that we cannot use a broadhead arrow as a general-purpose tool.
A wasp-waisted dagger cuts going in and, because the wound internally conforms to the waist of the blade, the wider fore-portion cuts again on withdrawal.
Additionally, one can think of the wasp-waist in terms of aerodynamic or hydrodynamic drag.
We want the wide fore-portion of the blade to penetrate as deeply as possible, and so we do not want any unnecessary drag behind the widest point of the blade.
Therefore, the blade "falls away" after the widest fore-portion passes through the opening of the wound.
Think aerodynamically.
The 5-degree cant represented the original designer's best guess-ta-mate of what it was he believed accurate in terms of a thrust to the kidneys from behind.
This according to my discussion with Al Mar for an article I did on this knife many years ago for Turbo Publishing (SWAT/Firepower).
And since Al did the final work-up on the MKII...
The Cutlery Shoppe brought the original design with cant back out as a special offering nearly 10 years ago now.
The "cat's tongue" coating was sprayed onto the handle. It is a neat coating and I, too, wonder why it isn't used as such today.
This according to my discussion with Al Mar for an article I did on this knife many years ago for Turbo Publishing (SWAT/Firepower).
And since Al did the final work-up on the MKII...
The Cutlery Shoppe brought the original design with cant back out as a special offering nearly 10 years ago now.
The "cat's tongue" coating was sprayed onto the handle. It is a neat coating and I, too, wonder why it isn't used as such today.
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I thought the cats tongue cames from using cast aluminium (aluminium white metal derivative). The finish made within the the process and not not just a coating ??. You learn something new every day.
Loads of knives were made with short tangs. Samurai swords have short tangs. As the handles were cast a short tang was probably thought to be enough.
I've broken and seen several cast handles bust (shattered) but I can't remember seeing a broken Gerber. Cast handles are softer than one would think and a short tange can work loose. A full tang is better for todays modern steels as the blades are able to take more punishment and so people do. Though, other than for balance, I don't see the point of the tangs being kept at stock thickness.
Loads of knives were made with short tangs. Samurai swords have short tangs. As the handles were cast a short tang was probably thought to be enough.
I've broken and seen several cast handles bust (shattered) but I can't remember seeing a broken Gerber. Cast handles are softer than one would think and a short tange can work loose. A full tang is better for todays modern steels as the blades are able to take more punishment and so people do. Though, other than for balance, I don't see the point of the tangs being kept at stock thickness.
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When I was about 17 or 18 (circa 1980) The Gerber MKII was the abo-freakin-lutely most bada$$ed blade available in the humble opinions of myself & a couple of friends whe were fellow Knuts.
Another friend (82nd Abn) carried one when he dropped onto Grenada. I wanted that knife some kinda bad, but it went to one of his fellow troopers. According to him, he beat it up pretty good.
Another friend (82nd Abn) carried one when he dropped onto Grenada. I wanted that knife some kinda bad, but it went to one of his fellow troopers. According to him, he beat it up pretty good.
The trouble with using the 5 degree blade cant to help with kidney strikes is that you have to make sure you are holding the knife right side up. This isn't as funny as it might sound due to the stress involved during such an attack. One of the things about a double edged combat knife is that either side will cut so you don't ever have to worry about what side ya got against the slashee's throat. Leigh
Believe Greenjacket is correct on the aluminum. Will check my story on the MKII and confirm/deny.
Yep, the MKII is a classic. I've had about 10 of them to include the Neptune model. My first SF CQB instructor instructed with the MKII in training group. He used to carry one onboard civilian airliners way back when...for self defense against air pirates. Now the good guys have to fight air pirates with coke cans and tie tacks.
The 5-degree cant was wishful thinking. Not harmful or misleading. Just wishful thinking with the best of intentions. Certainly didn't detract from the knife's performance and it does look cool.
Jeff Conte, noted custom knifemaker and SF medic, has a great story about a busted tang MKII. And at FK we got a few letters about the stick tang popping out of the handle. It happens. Just about any knife that is mass produced (and some handmade blades) are going to have an eightball now and then.
The MKI is a great little boot dagger but the blade is simply far too thick, in my opinion. If they'd use a thinner blade or grind the edges with proper edge geometry for such a knife in mind it would be near perfect. As is I feel the knife is too hard to sharpen to the degree of sharpness a small boot knife must have to be as effective as possible, and the false edge is near worthless.
Like Greenjacket I like the Shadow daggers which are light and fairly durable. My favorite dirk (not dagger) is the Crawford designed Blackmoore Dirk in the large version from Blackjack Knives, or from Pat Crawford direct. Awesome piece of CQB steel in trained hands.
Yep, the MKII is a classic. I've had about 10 of them to include the Neptune model. My first SF CQB instructor instructed with the MKII in training group. He used to carry one onboard civilian airliners way back when...for self defense against air pirates. Now the good guys have to fight air pirates with coke cans and tie tacks.
The 5-degree cant was wishful thinking. Not harmful or misleading. Just wishful thinking with the best of intentions. Certainly didn't detract from the knife's performance and it does look cool.
Jeff Conte, noted custom knifemaker and SF medic, has a great story about a busted tang MKII. And at FK we got a few letters about the stick tang popping out of the handle. It happens. Just about any knife that is mass produced (and some handmade blades) are going to have an eightball now and then.
The MKI is a great little boot dagger but the blade is simply far too thick, in my opinion. If they'd use a thinner blade or grind the edges with proper edge geometry for such a knife in mind it would be near perfect. As is I feel the knife is too hard to sharpen to the degree of sharpness a small boot knife must have to be as effective as possible, and the false edge is near worthless.
Like Greenjacket I like the Shadow daggers which are light and fairly durable. My favorite dirk (not dagger) is the Crawford designed Blackmoore Dirk in the large version from Blackjack Knives, or from Pat Crawford direct. Awesome piece of CQB steel in trained hands.
Danbo
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I've still got my Gerber MK II that I bought at the Marine Corps PX in Yuma, AZ back in 1977. Not one of the Vietnam era models with collectors value, but I still love the knife. My Brother nicknamed the knife, "Whispering Death". He keeps bugging me for the knife, but I wont let it go. Funny thing, as attached as I am to the knife, I have not used it for anything in all these years. ???
I received my first Gerber Mk II, sn# 13000 in the fall of 1969 during my last full tour in Vietnam. As it had the sharpening steel with it I fell in love with its L-6 blade. In Vietnam and Cambodia it never left my side and I loved that knife. It received its baptism of blood one terrible dark monsoon night. It saved my live and possibly others by enabling me take the lives of two men and wounding a third when I could not get to a gun fast enough that was foolishly out of reach. I carried that knife for several more years then retired it. I have it yet and I will never part with it. I admit to being a knife fanatic and have drawers full of knives but I LOVE those old Gerbers.