Handgun Carry in the Woods?

I tend to carry wherever I am ... in town ... in the woods ... riding in the mountains ... or around home ... you just never know ... and have had situations happen that you wouldn't expect in places you wouldn't expect ...
mostly I carry for two legged predators ... but if camping or going riding in areas with bears or mountain lions I may switch to a revolvers with heavier loads ...

now this I have to say be very careful ... some jurisdictions may not prosecute but many and most will ... you can not legally fire warning shots ... one of the first thing any instructor should drill into you ... if you draw your weapon it is only to use it in defense ... not to scare someone off ... as you can be charged for brandishing a firearm or unlawful discharge of a firearm and even assault ... so be very careful with this ...

Yes, warning shot are usually not recommended. I guess the thinking I had was we were in a rural area. Most cities or areas have laws against warning shots due to safety concerns of stray rounds hitting innocent people. Makes complete sense to me. Our incident was unique and if a prosecutor tried to prosecute me for brandishing or illegal discharge of a firearm or some kind of assault charge they would be retarded. I de-escalated a potentially deadly situation by deterrong two armed men from furthering their assault with deadly weapons. They escalated the situation and I answered with equal threat of force. I just had a bigger gun and higher capacity. 99.99% of the time you shouldn't use warning shots, but if I didn't i would have killed two people. I decided to go against brandishing versus potential manslaughter charges, if for whatever reason I was wrong, and they only wanted to borrow a cup of coffee. Although, I highly doubt from what they did and their body language was that it was the case. There is always the potential risk of being prosecuted anytime you discharge your firearm in self defense. Each case is different and you have seconds to decide. When people come across this kind of situation I recommend to use good judgment. That's all you can ask for and hope you made the right decision. Those few seconds will have a impact on you for the rest of your life
 
My apologies if you took my post as bad towards you ... I completely understand your situation ... and if someone's family is in harms way ... many maybe even most would have done the same thing ... or similiar perhaps ...

I have trained alot ... and carried a firearm for work many years ... and all my training and experience ... I like to think I would respond as it's in my mind to handle a given situation ... but once you throw your loved ones in harms way ... it can sway how you react in a split second.

and I agree for me if a states attorney brought charges against you for that it would have been wrong ... your family is what matters and protecting them in whatever manner is necessary I would understand ...

main thing is I'm glad you all came out unharmed and you wereen't forced to do more than fire a warning shot ... thank God ...

I just didn't want you or any to get in a bind doing that ... I respect you for exercising your right to carry and your character for protecting your family ... just be very careful in how you do it.

Hopefully you never are in that situation again ... nor any of our fellow members.

JJ
 
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I work in the backcountry in Oregon, Washington, Northern Idaho or Alaska for days or weeks at a time and throughout all seasons of the year. Primarily mountains, then foothills or along river systems, and almost always away from trails. Usually with one other person, though sometimes with three to five other people operating out of field camps. Have had a few brown and black bear encounters over the years.

Weight is always an issue, despite 25+ years of professional military and backcountry experience, close study of what I do and don't need, as well as keeping up with performance gear. So I give a lot of consideration to pros and cons of every ounce and pound that I can. Always carry a day pack (usually 25-35L Osprey) with hip strap, or sometimes larger packs if carrying large GPS manpacks, remote sensing gear, camera or other specialized equipment. When working in Alaska, we carry bear spray and issued Remington 870s with slugs, or have the choice to carry ported Weatherby .375 H&H Mags.

Down here, I used to just carry bear spray, but had a particularly close call with a bear a few years ago that made me regret not carrying a firearm that day. Have tried lots of options since, but for the last few years have carried and loved a Gen 4 Glock 20 with Underwood 220gr. hard cast for bear country, or Hornady Custom factory XTP in 180gr. if I am more likely to run into lighter or two-legged trouble. Both rounds are like laser beams in my particular G20 fitted with yellow Trijicon HDs.

The G20 and all of my other backcountry handguns ride in Simply Rugged Sourdough pancake holsters usually strong side IWB with a Wilderness Instructor's belt, which works fine with the Osprey daypacks. If riding on ATVs a lot, will sometimes carry cross draw, but rarely. If wearing Simms chest waders, I can add the Chesty Puller harness for chest carry. Rob added a removable retention strap for the 10mm rig that attaches by Chicago screw if in waders.

Since I have been using the 10mm, I haven't looked twice at my old standbys. The G20 stoked with 180 gr. XTP and IWB is also great for getting to and from the field and has the same manual of arms as my EDC G19, which is a plus. Of course, bear spray is always on my hip strap, and the 870 always comes along in the crew vehicles, ATV, or canoe and goes on the shoulder in dense bear areas or after sightings in areas that we are unable to move out of/avoid.

Would plain old hollow point be basically useless against an charging brown bear? I’m curious if penetration would be a problem, 12” might not be deep enough even depending on where it was hit.
 
Would plain old hollow point be basically useless against an charging brown bear? I’m curious if penetration would be a problem, 12” might not be deep enough even depending on where it was hit.

I don't know that it would be useless, but in my opinion, penetration is essential on large dangerous animals and hard cast is the way to go with any pistol round vs a pissed off bear. One of my bosses peeled a grizzly off of his chest with a S&W in .44 Mag and even he doesn't think much of pistols for bear defense.

In my very limited experience with charges, nothing is guaranteed. I have seen some massive brown bears get into trouble and have been sent after a couple that were threatening people who usually did something stupid to get everyone into trouble. One brown bear charged at a group of about ten children near the Russian River who were on a fieldtrip. They were innocent enough and reading nature trail signs on a footbridge when a grizzly climbed out of the river and accidentally got itself funneled one the footbridge and in between the railings. The kids freaked and ran, scattering into the woods. Of course, the bear who was just there for salmon, chased some of the kids since food runs. I was the closest person with a shotgun when the teachers ran to get help.

So the kids were running, the bear was running after them, and I was running after the bear. Fortunately for all of us, the bear decided to go back to fishing in the middle of the ordeal, and the kids and I all slinked away without firing any shots. But if I had, it would have been bad no matter what happened and the faster the rounds disabled the bear, the better.

One of our biologists got a heart shot on a bear that ran for another 200 meters. After my few experiences with dangerous bears, I am convinced that there is very little likelihood of not getting ripped to shreds no matter how it goes down if in the open. Hunting anecdotes are useful for hunting and if starting the fight, but a bear that starts the fight is way ahead of anyone reacting to it, and shots won't likely have the same effects if their adrenaline are instincts are pumping before ours. As our director who fought off the brown bear with his .44 Mag said, "better file the front sight down," as any handgun is likely to get shoved up one's ass before the fight it over.

I have only been charged once and that was by a black bear, which was more than terrifying enough for my taste. In that case, I did not have a firearm on me, but vividly recall wishing I had a 870 with slugs. The encounter lasted for several minutes, with her backing me and another guy up a ridge line, drooling and growling at us while her cubs screamed from treetops from down the ridge where her charge started. I am very glad that no one died and that the cubs got to keep their mom that day. However, if today she charged from 80 meters out again, was standing in front of me right now on her hind legs with drool and foam flying off of her teeth, twisting her head back and forth in a rage, and then pushing me 1,000 feet back up a narrow ridge with no escape and the strong mountain winds blowing in my face making spray worthless, I would wish for a few 12 gauge slugs. If I was too lazy to carry that, I will be carrying 15 rounds of 220 gr. hard cast in a pistol that I can make as many good hits as possible with in the time I may or may not have. The XTP is to get me to the field, or to reload in a gunfight with human predators. Otherwise, I will be as careful and respectful as I can, default to bear spray, and as a last resort poke as many deep holes as I can before I get eaten alive by a black bear or beaten to death by a brown one.
 
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I have no experience with bears. So in what order would you that do put the following items ? What would you most want to have?
12 gauge,what ammo
Rifle, what caliber
Handgun, caliber
Bear spray
Shinny bell
 
I carried a handgun in the woods while hunting deer in Missouri.
Usually a Thompson 1911 A1 (.45 ACP) in an open top holster, during firearms season.
My rifle was a .30-30 Marlin lever action

A .45 calibure percussion CVA "Kentucky Rifle" was my choice during the black powder season.
During the black powder season, I sometimes carried a .45 calibure percussion pistol, as well, no holster, tucked inside the belt/sash, Mountain Man style.
 
These bear gun posts are such a joke. You'll have to brain the bear in order to reliably stop it, so a 9mm is better choice than a .44 mag, cause you can get off more good tries in the same period of time, and you can practice a lot more for the same money. Plus the 9mm is a feasible ccw gun, and the .44 is not, so why bother to own a .44? A serious bear attack is likely to be an ambush, maybe even at night, and you probably will be mauled before you can draw your pistol. Even in "bear country", you're more at risk from people and dogs than you'll ever be from wild critters. Every year in the US, on average (ASPCA webpage) over 800, 000 people are dog bitten badly enough that they seek medical attention, and 2=+ are killed. maybe 20 people a year are mauled by a bear and almost none die, and almost all of them are in Alaska. :) Now watch some fools talk about 'penetration", when the 9mm penetrates skulls just fine.
 
Pretty much think you're wasting your time with the 9mm and bears (any variety). Better to use bear spray if they are real close. But carrying a can of bear spray is a bit of a pain in the butt versus the handgun.
 
I don't know that it would be useless, but in my opinion, penetration is essential on large dangerous animals and hard cast is the way to go with any pistol round vs a pissed off bear. One of my bosses peeled a grizzly off of his chest with a S&W in .44 Mag and even he doesn't think much of pistols for bear defense.

In my very limited experience with charges, nothing is guaranteed. I have seen some massive brown bears get into trouble and have been sent after a couple that were threatening people who usually did something stupid to get everyone into trouble. One brown bear charged at a group of about ten children near the Russian River who were on a fieldtrip. They were innocent enough and reading nature trail signs on a footbridge when a grizzly climbed out of the river and accidentally got itself funneled one the footbridge and in between the railings. The kids freaked and ran, scattering into the woods. Of course, the bear who was just there for salmon, chased some of the kids since food runs. I was the closest person with a shotgun when the teachers ran to get help.

So the kids were running, the bear was running after them, and I was running after the bear. Fortunately for all of us, the bear decided to go back to fishing in the middle of the ordeal, and the kids and I all slinked away without firing any shots. But if I had, it would have been bad no matter what happened and the faster the rounds disabled the bear, the better.

One of our biologists got a heart shot on a bear that ran for another 200 meters. After my few experiences with dangerous bears, I am convinced that there is very little likelihood of not getting ripped to shreds no matter how it goes down if in the open. Hunting anecdotes are useful for hunting and if starting the fight, but a bear that starts the fight is way ahead of anyone reacting to it, and shots won't likely have the same effects if their adrenaline are instincts are pumping before ours. As our director who fought off the brown bear with his .44 Mag said, "better file the front sight down," as any handgun is likely to get shoved up one's ass before the fight it over.

I have only been charged once and that was by a black bear, which was more than terrifying enough for my taste. In that case, I did not have a firearm on me, but vividly recall wishing I had a 870 with slugs. The encounter lasted for several minutes, with her backing me and another guy up a ridge line, drooling and growling at us while her cubs screamed from treetops from down the ridge where her charge started. I am very glad that no one died and that the cubs got to keep their mom that day. However, if today she charged from 80 meters out again, was standing in front of me right now on her hind legs with drool and foam flying off of her teeth, twisting her head back and forth in a rage, and then pushing me 1,000 feet back up a narrow ridge with no escape and the strong mountain winds blowing in my face making spray worthless, I would wish for a few 12 gauge slugs. If I was too lazy to carry that, I will be carrying 15 rounds of 220 gr. hard cast in a pistol that I can make as many good hits as possible with in the time I may or may not have. The XTP is to get me to the field, or to reload in a gunfight with human predators. Otherwise, I will be as careful and respectful as I can, default to bear spray, and as a last resort poke as many deep holes as I can before I get eaten alive by a black bear or beaten to death by a brown one.
Interesting, with some tales from actual encounters.

The front sight file down comment (which btw made me laugh out loud) sums it up.

PXSnQP7.jpg
 
These bear gun posts are such a joke. You'll have to brain the bear in order to reliably stop it, so a 9mm is better choice than a .44 mag, cause you can get off more good tries in the same period of time, and you can practice a lot more for the same money. Plus the 9mm is a feasible ccw gun, and the .44 is not, so why bother to own a .44? A serious bear attack is likely to be an ambush, maybe even at night, and you probably will be mauled before you can draw your pistol. Even in "bear country", you're more at risk from people and dogs than you'll ever be from wild critters. Every year in the US, on average (ASPCA webpage) over 800, 000 people are dog bitten badly enough that they seek medical attention, and 2=+ are killed. maybe 20 people a year are mauled by a bear and almost none die, and almost all of them are in Alaska. :) Now watch some fools talk about 'penetration", when the 9mm penetrates skulls just fine.
You just ain't too bright, are you?
 
There was another guy not long ago who came on these subforums with the exact same attitude and outlook who lasted longer but didn't last. Can't remember his moniker but probably the same guy.
 
I read "somewhere" that authorities are REQUIRING you to carry bear spray hiking or off the beating path in certain areas. I would have to see that one. Suggesting, recommending, yes; but not requiring.... I assume we're talking about national parks such as Glacier NP and perhaps Alaska.

I have been around black bears a fair amount and I have no illusions about my ability to seriously defend myself against a young male hell bent on dinner. They're really fast critters and have four legs with deadly claws attached to them beyond teeth and mouth.
 
Of all the posters who carry for protection against 2 legged predators, it seems at least 90% wouldn’t be an issue if we let go of drug prohibition. Pot farms are usually run by criminals. Jails wouldn’t be overcrowded if there weren’t so many inmates locked up for drug crimes.(selling or buying economy sized) I have no interest or intention of using drugs myself, but I can’t see why we spend so much money trying to control what people put into their own bodies. Violent, recidivist felons should get either 10 years hard labor or short tracked to the gas chamber/firing squad.

Sorry if I’m being political, but I have met a couple normal seeming youths a few miles off the trail. After a half handle of whiskey between 5 of us the two guests decided they were going to take 2 large rocks and destroy a friend’s brain pan. I hadn’t been paying attention, but by the time Ibecame aware of what they were up to my buddy was lying in a creek with 1 rock hit, the second rock being carried over to finish the job. I was unarmed except for a 4” blade which I didn’t use. I told the young man with the unused rock to drop it, which he did. I told them both to walk ahead of me toward the trail while I supported my friend, who could barely walk. After reaching the trail, I told them to disappear for good and got my buddy to the car as fast as I and the mutual friend could. I guess had I a handgun I could have justified kneecapping both of these creeps before taking my buddy to the hospital. Their attitude while discussing an attempted murder was so casual, and their lack of guilt afterward made it obvious it wasn’t their first. I went to the nearest town to get some information on these guys, but didn’t file a police report:it turned out they were CI’s used by law enforcement to bust drug dealers.

Since I’ve crossed the line into political I hope to make one last point; making “moral” crimes into actual crimes most (but not all) “vice” corrupts the system put in place to protect the innocent from the evil. Cartels and gangs are a by-product of such legislation; LEO can be paid to “look away” or profit from the seizure of property; If everyone who could get a cc permit and use it, and not have to run from evil but do our part to remove the 2 legged predators from the society they prey upon, our children and grandchildren would be better off, I think. And they wouldn’t dare corrupt their bodies with vice until they were old enough to be responsible for themselves. You can bet your last dollar drug dealers will sell to 12 year olds. A liquor store won’t risk a $10,000 fine to make a $10 sale

Fiction, if not I'm glad you don't have a concealed carry permit.
 
Ok, mostly the last paragraph, I think I saw that movie, and the second to last paragraph too.
If it's not, cool story.
Knee capping someone in the woods is a good way to go to one of those over crowded prisons you spoke of.
That's why the "I'm glad you don't have a concealed carry permit".
Have a nice evening.
 
Ok, mostly the last paragraph, I think I saw that movie, and the second to last paragraph too.
If it's not, cool story.
Knee capping someone in the woods is a good way to go to one of those over crowded prisons you spoke of.
That's why the "I'm glad you don't have a concealed carry permit".
Have a nice evening.

This actually happened, though I was a lot younger and dumber at the time. The point I was trying to make about kneecaps is that these vile thugs I ran across were as unaffected by the idea of actually murdering someone in cold blood as they were about cooking a steak. I am sure I wouldn’t have done so, though I know my friend, who was the actual victim wouldn’t have thought twice about killing them both. When I reflect on the event years later I can only imagine how many lives would have been saved had they been “taught a lesson.” As far as doing time, we would have been out of state long before they made it back to town, if at all, with shot out kneecaps.


When you say you “saw that movie” do you mean to say you were there?
If so, I don’t mean you any ill will, and certainly not if you were one of my friends.
If not, and attempted murder was just a one-off drunken not repeated episode, then as far as I’m concerned no harm, no foul.
 
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Wish we could legaly carry a handgun in the woods. Don't care if we couldn't in town. Just the woods would be fine. But we can't. So we just gotta carry rifles here
 
Wish we could legaly carry a handgun in the woods. Don't care if we couldn't in town. Just the woods would be fine. But we can't. So we just gotta carry rifles here

Rifles are to handguns what fixed blades are to folders:”the latter are fun, the former are essential.”
 
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