Hidden tang via stock removal

I appreciate the heck out if it.
Quick question. Since my stock is .120 that means I need to drill holes that are about 3/32 and file them larger. For a snug fit. But where do I get a files that are slimmer than .120? I'm beginning to think thicker stock is the way to go for hidden tangs. Like 3/16 thick would be better.
 
valknut said:
I appreciate the heck out if it.
Quick question. Since my stock is .120 that means I need to drill holes that are about 3/32 and file them larger. For a snug fit. But where do I get a files that are slimmer than .120? I'm beginning to think thicker stock is the way to go for hidden tangs. Like 3/16 thick would be better.
Click to expand...
I have this set of file for wood .................
nkjRabw.jpg

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hig...Needle-Files-Woodworking-DIY/32822807438.html
 
When you take on a new project it's really a good idea to make sure you have all the tools readily available to complete or at least advance part way through the project. When you draw up the plan make a list on the paper along side the drawing of what tools you will be using then when you start you have tools handy and a NOTE which tools you might have to purchase. I have a lot of tools and I still write my list so I can locate what I need in my shop before I start in case a tools has gone on Walkabout!!!!
If you don't already have a "File Guide" I suggest that you make one so you can "True" up the Guard/Spacer slot and the Ricasso/Tang junction at the Radius so you have a Tight fit and no play or wobble.

I added this link which has some great description and photos of how hidden tangs knife is done.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/introduction-and-a-wip.1082411/
 
Busto said:
When you take on a new project it's really a good idea to make sure you have all the tools readily available to complete or at least advance part way through the project. When you draw up the plan make a list on the paper along side the drawing of what tools you will be using then when you start you have tools handy and a NOTE which tools you might have to purchase. I have a lot of tools and I still write my list so I can locate what I need in my shop before I start in case a tools has gone on Walkabout!!!!
If you don't already have a "File Guide" I suggest that you make one so you can "True" up the Guard/Spacer slot and the Ricasso/Tang junction at the Radius so you have a Tight fit and no play or wobble.

I added this link which has some great description and photos of how hidden tangs knife is done.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/introduction-and-a-wip.1082411/
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm beginning to realize I was in over my head. I'm getting the stuff together now. I mainly need a machist vise, machinist square and calipers.
 
valknut said:
Gentleman I believe I am lost in the sauce.
Grabbed a new block. This is it marked out. The 15n20 stock is only .120 thick. Should I use an 1/8 drill bit to drill the holes for the tang? I cut out and drilled the guard before I realized "I have no freaking idea what I'm doing."
5yCXsSl.jpg

Tried drilling some holes in a line. Sounded good in theory bit I have no file small enough to remove the material in between. Scrap that.
Here is the piece of wood in currently on
auudSjc.jpg

Marked center and the black lines are the width of the riccasso.
Don't worry about the other lines.
Feel like I'm back in high school getting taught algebra 2. I just can't seem to grasp how to do this.
Click to expand...


When I do really thin knives, like a 1/16” kitchen knife, I clamp my g-10 in my file guide and drill it with the bit resting against the guide. It helps to have 1/16” or 1/32” matching material to use as the face of the guard. Once drilled, you can use the bit as a file and connect the dots. Go from bottom to top to help prevent the bit from wandering. I’ve got a selection of needle files, and custom ground sawsall/jig saw blades as well. If you don’t have a file guide, use a hardened piece of any steel you have lying around.

If you have a mill, you can use a slitting saw to quickly cut the slot.

Glue the thin front to your guard after you file the guard open a bit oversized with Krazy glue or polyurethane glue. If the guard is black, j-b-weld will work. The joint is barely visible.

I’ll take some pics of my next fitup for the stickies. Most of the pics are gone now. With 1/8” or over, slotting with a mill is super easy. Thinner, and broken end mills are an issue unless you know what you are doing.
 
valknut said:
Yeah I'm beginning to realize I was in over my head. I'm getting the stuff together now. I mainly need a machist vise, machinist square and calipers.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, a vise and calipers I would consider almost mandatory, but the machinist square and machinist vise can be done without, it'll just be a bit harder. I don't have a machinist square, and didn't have a machinist vise until recently, and I have done a few hidden tangs without them. It does take a lot more time dry fitting to get it right if you don't have them, but can be done. I've dealt with the "wandering drillbit" problem that you noted and other than better quality bits, the only thing I've found to help is drill slowly in small "pecks" and centerpunch before drilling. When using softer materials, a decking screw can be used in a pinch as a poor man's centerpunch.
I hope this helps,
Keenan
 
AlaskanHunter said:
Not necessarily, a vise and calipers I would consider almost mandatory, but the machinist square and machinist vise can be done without, it'll just be a bit harder. I don't have a machinist square, and didn't have a machinist vise until recently, and I have done a few hidden tangs without them. It does take a lot more time dry fitting to get it right if you don't have them, but can be done. I've dealt with the "wandering drillbit" problem that you noted and other than better quality bits, the only thing I've found to help is drill slowly in small "pecks" and centerpunch before drilling. When using softer materials, a decking screw can be used in a pinch as a poor man's centerpunch.
I hope this helps,
Keenan
Click to expand...


See post 47 for a suggestion on how to deal with wandering bits. I can now drill a straight line with a handheld drill.
 
Willie71 said:
See post 47 for a suggestion on how to deal with wandering bits. I can now drill a straight line with a handheld drill.
Click to expand...
Can you elaborate or show pics of what your talking about in that post? My thick head is having a hard time picturing what you are saying.
 
"I appreciate the heck out if it.
Quick question. Since my stock is .120 that means I need to drill holes that are about 3/32 and file them larger. For a snug fit. But where do I get a files that are slimmer than .120? I'm beginning to think thicker stock is the way to go for hidden tangs. Like 3/16 thick would be better."

If you are fitting the guard, then yes, drill smaller and file it open. Do not file until the guard fits against the ricasso shoulders. File until the guard gets within 3/8 or so from the shoulders then press fit. This will cause the guard to deform around the hole and take the shape of the tang. It also raises the edges which will need to be sanded flat again. If there are any gaps you will need to carefully peen the guard face around the opening to spread material there to fill the gap. Press or hammer the guard on again and check the fit again. Repeat until you have a seamless fit around the tang. Keep in mind you'll need to put a radius on the short sides where it mates with the radiused shoulders at the ricasso. When the fit is perfect, refinish the face of your guard to remove any dimples from peening.

If you are drilling out the tang pocket in the handle, you can use a slightly oversized drill. A .125" drill is fine for a .120" tang. You want a little room for the epoxy.

Working with thicker stock is a bit easier but you have to learn to work through all kinds of variables and situations. I use cheap needle files in both plain and diamond coated versions to open up narrow slots, although I'm liking the file kuraki posted a link to. Some of the tools I mentioned are cheap to acquire at local stores. Some of the pricier items you may need to get used. Ebay is a good place to get quality vintage American made tools fairly inexpensively.
 
AlaskanHunter said:
Can you elaborate or show pics of what your talking about in that post? My thick head is having a hard time picturing what you are saying.
Click to expand...


Slot the guard a bit oversized, and use a thin sheet of the same material for the face of the guard. Clamp the thin sheet in a file guide, or against hardened steel to line up the holes. It’s much less time consuming to use fine files to fit 1/16” or 1/32” stock to a Press fit. Once the face is snugly fit, glue it to the front of the guard. This only works with synthetic materials, or wood. It won’t work with steel, stainless etc.

With steel or stainless, I mill the back of the guard 1/16” oversized, down to within 1/16” of the front of the guard. The front gets precision milled, or milled slightly undersized to the tang, and opened with fine files until press fit.

2336AC87-EF87-4D05-9236-9A980090431D by Wjkrywko, on Flickr
 
Last edited:
Well I had to step away from everything for a bit. I have a bad habit of getting obsessed and just consuming myself in this. Then I put yoo much pressure on myself to perfect what I do. But anyway I read through Mr Morrison's WIP and re read what i4marc posted. It's starting to come together mentally. I've thought about doing exactly what Warren suggested and putting a piece of g10 over the top of the block of wood.
question: Where do you guys get the machinist squares? I have some 123 blocks that I've used to square things up but I think the machinist square would work better. I'll start over tomorrow and post up as I go so I can get advice as I go. This will be guardless because I don't have the metal for a guard and won't have it until my the first.
ETA also. Where could I pick up a longer drill bit that's 1/8 for the handle?
Edit number 2. Nevermind I just ordered a 6in drill bit and machinist square on Amazon. Hoping to get calipers tomorrow
 
Last edited:
Any Home Depot should have the long black oxide drill bits from 1/8' up to maybe 3/8" or so. Sometimes they are too long so I chop them to the size I need and use the remainder of the rod for other things.

You don't NEED a machinist's square. You can use a small carpenter's square, speed square, combination square, artist's t-square or whatever you have. A machinist's vise isn't a deal breaker either but is something you will use a lot.
 
i4Marc said:
Any Home Depot should have the long black oxide drill bits from 1/8' up to maybe 3/8" or so. Sometimes they are too long so I chop them to the size I need and use the remainder of the rod for other things.

You don't NEED a machinist's square. You can use a small carpenter's square, speed square, combination square, artist's t-square or whatever you have. A machinist's vise isn't a deal breaker either but is something you will use a lot.
Click to expand...
Alright well I didn't have the funds on the CC for both so I just got the machinist square. Biggest tools I'm missing are patience and expierence.
 
valknut said:
But where do I get a files that are slimmer than .120?
Click to expand...
Don't be afraid to modify your files. If one is too thick, then grind down one side to make it thinner. You will lose one filing side but it will fit. You can do this if your file is too wide also, just grind it to be more narrow.
 
valknut said:
This will be guardless because I don't have the metal for a guard and won't have it until my the first.
Click to expand...

Do you have a Piece of scrap cut off steel that is large enough to be shaped to a short guard that will cover the facing of the handle material? You can cut and square it up mark the center line scribe in the outline of the tang hole where it meets the shoulders and practice drilling and filing that piece to fit. If it comes out OK you can use that epoxied to the handle and finish this project without having to wait for new material. I've done this with cut off drops from Damascus as a spacer not necessarily as a FULL GUARD. Any material that will make a seamless fit against the ricasso to hide the tang hole is worth trying.
 
Busto said:
Do you have a Piece of scrap cut off steel that is large enough to be shaped to a short guard that will cover the facing of the handle material? You can cut and square it up mark the center line scribe in the outline of the tang hole where it meets the shoulders and practice drilling and filing that piece to fit. If it comes out OK you can use that epoxied to the handle and finish this project without having to wait for new material. I've done this with cut off drops from Damascus as a spacer not necessarily as a FULL GUARD. Any material that will make a seamless fit against the ricasso to hide the tang hole is worth trying.
Click to expand...
I was actually going to use this idea but with a g10 liner as kind of a "cap"
 
G-10 will work, but I think a piece of steel will produce a better close tight fit because you can drive it on as far as it will go then back it off and file a little more then drive it on again and off again and file a little until you have a TIGHT seamless fit....Go to the Custom and Handmade knives forum here and check some photos in the sticky's by COOP and check the Chef Style Knives with Wa handles and see how most use a thin piece of steel or brass at the junction of the handle to blade.
 
Busto said:
G-10 will work, but I think a piece of steel will produce a better close tight fit because you can drive it on as far as it will go then back it off and file a little more then drive it on again and off again and file a little until you have a TIGHT seamless fit....Go to the Custom and Handmade knives forum here and check some photos in the sticky's by COOP and check the Chef Style Knives with Wa handles and see how most use a thin piece of steel or brass at the junction of the handle to blade.
Click to expand...
I have a piece of AEBL I could use. I'll do that. Picked up some needle files last night so I should be good to go. Thanks busto
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top