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Hunt for yet another folder ($300 USD budget) UPDATED

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Kavanaughty, Apr 2, 2017.

  1. strategy9

    strategy9 Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 27, 2015
    For $300 you can land both!!!
    My "ten"


    Cts-xhp hold out is another one high on my list (already have a code 4 clipped point).
  2. Kavanaughty


    Jul 9, 2013
    Hi folks, after a little research and "careful thinking" I decided to readjust my criteria:

    • Good to excellent corrosion resistant steel
    • Non-assisted
    • Any type of handles except Micarta or stainless steel
    • Frame lock with a lock bar stabilizer, a lock bar insert or both
    • Washer pivot (no ball or thrust bearings)
    • Also open to good liner locks and lockbacks as well
    • Up to $300 USD
    • Preferably made in North America or Europe

    I'd love a flipper but I've been unable to find one that isn't assisted or doesn't have a ball or thrust bearing pivot (perhaps this is a necessary feature in flippers). The main reason I've decided to avoid ball or thrust bearing pivots is primarily because I've heard they can wear out the tracks over time, which can lead to problems. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Other reasons include the possibility of rust on steel ball bearings and easier accumulation of debris in the pivot.

    Thanks guys!
  3. evilgreg

    evilgreg Why so serious? Gold Member

    Dec 25, 2012
    Buy whatever you'd like, but FWIW I've used the hell out of some bearing knives without any issues, beyond occasionally needing to take them apart and clean them which I would have had to do if the knives used washers or not.

    For a year I made a point of flipping the same Spyderco Southard 10 - 20 times minimum (some days I flipped more than that). I'd read that titanium lock bars would wear terribly from meeting the harder blade tang, and since I owned multiple Southards I decided to see just how bad the problem would be. I carried this knife almost exclusively for year, and flipped it ~5,000 times that year, at least. It's still one of my most carried Southards, and it's done all sorts of work. It's been covered in blood, dropped in mud more than once, used to cut up juicy fruit, dropped in water (once four feet of very cold river water, that was fun--I thought it was gone forever). It's got some nicks and scratches, and the copper wire is almost entirely gone from the ultra-thin LSCF scale I had made for it, but if anything it feels smoother and more perfect than the day I first got it.

    At the risk of being called an idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about, I would honestly say that this knife, my most-used Southard (flipped many thousands of times) feels smoother and more perfect than either of my CRK knives, action-wise. It flips hard, the action is silky smooth, though not free falling because I have the detent set quite strong. The knife has been carried and used for years, and outside of not being as pretty as it once was, it works better than ever. It's the second knife down:


    Bearings don't make knives implode if used. Oh, the kicker? As for the lockup moving, it's still in almost the same place as the day I got it from my wife as a gift. So much for the need for steel lockbar inserts . . .

    This is what it looked like before all the copper wire was gone, incidentally:

  4. Kavanaughty


    Jul 9, 2013
    Thanks for the reply evilgreg. I'll admit, the Southard is starting to grow on me, especially since I'm fine with G10 handles now.

    Apparently Spyderco had the bright idea of putting steel washers between the ball bearings and the titanium, thus eliminating any chance of wearing out or damaging the bearing race. Funny how the Southard is their first flipper and they got practically everything right. Supposedly other makers use this system as well but I'm not sure which yet. I wish there was an easier way to find out.
  5. K.O.D.

    K.O.D. Sanity Not Included Platinum Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    Matt Bailey model 2 flipper. No insert, but I've had no lock stick at all, even new. PB washers, CPM-154 steel. Comes in at about $300~, give or take.

    Sent via carrier pigeon
  6. Lapedog


    Dec 7, 2016
    I have a few points.

    Pay attention that many knives have lockbar overtravel stops on the inside like the ZT0620 rather than outside Hinderer or Southard style.

    Titanium lockbar against steel tang is way overblown as a problem. What often actually happens is the lockbar only wears relatively quickly while it breaks in. This wearing seems to work harden the Ti lockbar face somewhat. The tang wears the lockbar to the point where it is broken in. After that the lockbar wearing slows down exponentially. This means the wear virtually stops. (it actually continues but very slowly)

    Spyderco has been having issues with with those washers that the bearings run on. The bearings are apparently causing dishing in the washers so bad that they are eating through to the titanium, completely destroying the washer. This seems to happen the most on Advocat and Mantra models. Also it happens on the Southard and the Domino too but less often.

    Just some things to note for your knife quest.
  7. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama

    Sep 25, 2011
    Thanks evilgreg! finally we agree on something.......that you have freaking amazing southards there!
    BigKurtHaze likes this.
  8. Kavanaughty


    Jul 9, 2013
    Thanks for the input Lapedog. I have heard that eventually, as you pointed out, the lock bar will become "work hardened" or "cold hardened" over time. I've also heard that the same can apply to the race of a ball bearing pivot, though to a lesser degree.

    Odd that those Spyderco models are encountering that problem. Are the steel ball bearing that much harder than the steel washers?
  9. evilgreg

    evilgreg Why so serious? Gold Member

    Dec 25, 2012
    Thanks. I'm carrying this black and white one today, as it happens.
  10. 쌍칼잡이


    Dec 4, 2015
    I also got the Viper Ten Flipper! I initially wanted the red Micarta version as well... but the carrier I was going through were out of them. So, I ended up getting the Carbonfiber version. This was my first Italian brand flipper, and I been enjoying it alot. Although I've heard some people complain about how the opening action is bit slow... but for the price? ...I honestly have nothing negative to say about it. But yeah... I really like the handle in yours! I will upload a picture if mine when I get back home (or tommarow).
  11. jringo8769


    Dec 25, 2015
    well i would highly recommend a Zero Tolerance knives...they are very well made...excellent warranty and hold their value very well too...and customer service is excellent too...i carry the ZT 0301...i know u state u do not want a assist knife...but i can not imagine not carrying this one ..God Bless,John...
    what size knife are u looking for?...i personally like the dlc coating too.....and i do love the polished blades too...
  12. T.L.E. Sharp

    T.L.E. Sharp Freedom for @Fullflat!!! Platinum Member

    Jun 30, 2016
    Pretty sure that needs a mirrored edge on it. That's some nifty g10.
  13. K.O.D.

    K.O.D. Sanity Not Included Platinum Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    That's not g-10. It's actual circuit board.
  14. T.L.E. Sharp

    T.L.E. Sharp Freedom for @Fullflat!!! Platinum Member

    Jun 30, 2016
    That's what circuit boards are made of. :D:p

    FR-4 technically I guess, but it's basically the same.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  15. Cereal_killer


    Apr 4, 2013
    Yep, circuit board = FR-4 (Fire Resistant fiberglass,compound #4) = G10. All the same thing.
    jringo8769 and BigKurtHaze like this.
  16. palonej

    palonej Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Aug 5, 2015
    Love your Southards Greg!!
    It is my favorite Spydie, along with the Domino!
    Here's mine.
  17. loonybin

    loonybin Gold Member Gold Member

    May 18, 1999
    Have you considered an Axis lock? There are plenty of good knives well within your price range that have washer pivots instead of bearings, rust resistant steel, not micarta or stainless steel...
    The 810-1401 Contego at Knifeworks (M390 steel) is on the bigger side.
    A 940-1501 at Knifeworks has a 3.4" blade (CPM-20CV steel).

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