I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

[Larrin]

Nice study, thanks. It will take a while to go through all of this, but it looks very interesting. Did you test M390 or is there another material that is equivalent? Did you test any non-steel alloys?

204P is equivalent to M390.

No non-steels tested yet.

 

[Larrin]

No surprise to see DeadboxHero was also heavily involved. Sounds like a lot of sharpening, and a few belts were probably gone through. You've both been contributing great stuff to the general knowledge of the knife community. It's appreciated!

I’m very tired of sharpening.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I really enjoyed reading this (and need to finish reading it all still)... and thank you for all the work you do to give everyone usefully tests and information instead of just more abuse tests. It's good to see your results back some of the things we hear about certain steels and cleared up some questions on others.

I have been considering a custom this year and this may have given me what I wanted to choose between a few steel options.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Just a few

No surprise to see DeadboxHero was also heavily involved. Sounds like a lot of sharpening, and a few belts were probably gone through. You've both been contributing great stuff to the general knowledge of the knife community. It's appreciated!

 

[Legendary_Jarl]

That sounds like the title of a Mr. Beast video lol. Great work! Thanks for sharing with all the results of your study.

 

[whp]

I’m very tired of sharpening.

I ll bet. Just wanted to add my thanks for the effort. Great data.

 

[lambertiana]

Thanks everybody. I don't think I've changed history but I do enjoy testing knives and steel.

Good thing you enjoy it, this was a labor of love. Thanks for the time you put into this.

 

[shojin]

Very impressive and obviously a labor of love. Thank you for your efforts!

 

[MolokaiRider]

I really appreciate the collaborative effort and work put in to get this data.

Not to mention to share it with us for free.

Thank you!

This also keeps affirming my love of 14c28n.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Fantastic article, thanks! Way above my paygrade (OK, comprehension) though -- my personal CATRA test is called whittling, and is totally subjective (but that's OK).

 

[afishhunter]

I tried reading the article, but got lost.

I'll just presume the blade steels I have (440A; 425HC (with Buck's Bos heat treat) CPM154 (again with Buck's Bos heat treat) D2 (once again with Buck's Bos heat treat) and 1095) "lost" and were proven "worthless" ... even though they work just fine for my needs.

 

[dirc]

I tried reading the article, but got lost.

I'll just presume the blade steels I have (440A; 425HC (with Buck's Bos heat treat) CPM154 (again with Buck's Bos heat treat) D2 (once again with Buck's Bos heat treat) and 1095) "lost" and were proven "worthless" ... even though they work just fine for my needs.

you really shouldn't presume... the main graph is pretty simple to read imho - edge retention is best at the top

d2 does excellent, like 500mm which is well above the pack imho... and cpm-154 is right up there with d2!

I was shocked to see s30v outgun cpm-m4 ... that was a real surprise to me, I would have bet good money that cpm-m4 would be on top

 

[knarfeng]

Mercy. You are DA Man!
Thanks for that. It's totally awesome.

 

[sgt1372]

I'm not a steel geek and a lot of the info went and still remains over my head but I appreciate the amount of effort that went into this study.

Not to oversimplify the results but, as a layman, this is what I get out of the report, based on the main chart, which compares edge retention (total cards cut - TCC) vs hardness;

The steels with the greatest edge retention ability (that I am most familiar with as a knife collector/buyer), grouped in order from high to low, are:

1) S90V (about 775 TCC) and 10V (which varied from about 725-800 TCC based on hardness from about 59-65)
2) K390/S110V/ZDP189 (about 725 TCC)
3) 204P=M390/20CV (about 625 TCC)
4) S30V (which varied from about 575-625 TCC based on hardness from about 59-64.5)
5) M4/Elmax/S45VN (about 575 TCC)
6) S35VN/Cruwear/CPM4V (about 525 TCC)
7) D2/CPM154/VG10 (about 475 TCC)
8) 440C/14C28N (about 425 TCC); 440C actually varied from about 400-450 TCC based on hardness from about 56-62.
9) LC200N (about 375 TCC)
10) O1 (only about 275 TCC)

What surprised me (just as a knife but not steel geek) was:

1) How much better S90V did than K390/S110V/ZDP189 and M390/20V.
2) How well S30V did and how important the heat treatment was to its performance; still below the "premium steels above" but not far behind for a steel that is often overlooked/maligned (based on what I've read).
3) The fact that M4/Elmax/S45VN did not outperform S30V, even at its lowest hardness level.
4) How poorly LC200N did when compared to the other steels; it obviously it gives up a great deal in edge retention in lieu of corrosion resistance.

What didn't surprise me was how poorly (relatively speaking) that D2/CPM154/VG10/440C and O1 did in the testing. Fortunately, they usually come w/lower priced knives and are easy to sharpened by hand; not so the harder premium steels.

I guess it also shouldn't be a surprise that the degree of edge retention varied directly w/the hardness of the steel but unfortunately the degree of hardness of the steel used in knives often is not provided to potential buyers but, when it is, obviously the hard steel would be preferred, whenever edge retention of the knife is considered important.

This study won't change (all that much) how much importance I place on the steel used when deciding to buy a knife (because as a collector I don't use most of my knives) BUT, where there is a choice to be made, the obvious choice will be to pick the one w/the steel w/better edge retention, especially if it is less expensive than one made w/highly touted/more expensive but yet poorer performing steel.

In this sense, S30V comes out the winner to me for a relatively low cost common steel, especially if you can find it at the highest level of hardness (around 64.5) with an equal edge retention results (about 624 TCC) as compared with M390/20CV, which is also quite surprising and nice to know since I own so many ZTs/Spydercos and other knives that use S30V.

Thanks for this report!

 

[not2sharp]

That was an excellent read. My only question would be regarding the hardness target. Typical knife harness tends to be in the mid 50s(RC), especially for fixed blades. Was there any particular reason for testing at 60+, and would you expect a significant change in ranking performance if the test had targeted 55RC?

n2s

 

[dirc]

I expect the answer is because mid 50's will suffer in performance... remember this test is cutting silica impregnated paper - which is 60

 

[LuckyC]

Well done! I saw the table listing different Carbide Types, Composition, Vickers Hardness, and Rockwell Hardness. I'm curious about the new Nitrogen alloys where some of the carbon is replaced with Nitrogen, are there different types of Nitrides formed in those alloys, having different compositions and hardnesses? I am completely unfamiliar with that chemistry. The new Nitrogen alloys could be the next avenue of exploration to expand the hardness/wear/impact/corrosion envelope for edged tools.

 

[Currawong]

Well done! I saw the table listing different Carbide Types, Composition, Vickers Hardness, and Rockwell Hardness. I'm curious about the new Nitrogen alloys where some of the carbon is replaced with Nitrogen, are there different types of Nitrides formed in those alloys, having different compositions and hardnesses? I am completely unfamiliar with that chemistry. The new Nitrogen alloys could be the next avenue of exploration to expand the hardness/wear/impact/corrosion envelope for edged tools.

Larrin has this other article, might cover some of those questions:
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/09/17/nitrogen-alloyed-knife-steels/
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/09/17/nitrogen-alloyed-knife-steels/

 

[marthinus]

Thanks for the work. A lot of effort went into this given the large data set. Much appreciated.

 

[LuckyC]

Larrin has this other article, might cover some of those questions:
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/09/17/nitrogen-alloyed-knife-steels/

Thank you, that article was helpful. There is discussion of Chromium Nitrides and Vanadium Nitrides and some information about how they differ from Chromium and Vanadium Carbides.