How To Improve Spyderco Delica4 PM2 Blade (Mod, Sharpening)

K

kreisler

Joined
May 11, 2012
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I am prolly not the first to address this topic. Anyway here is my take.

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I don't know about other Spyderco blades but OOTB i don't agree with how edge and plunge line are ground, nearing the ricasso of the Paramilitary 2, Delica 4, and Endura 4 blade: that spot/area looks untidy, unclear, messy, complex, complicated to me, causing four issues A, B, C, and D. I never understood why it was ground like that:
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The lack of a sharpening notch would be acceptable to me, if that problematic area had a primitive geometry. Primitive geometry is preferred if i want to resharpen every(!) millimeter of the edge conveniently and don't want to run into sharpening trouble sooner or later. In the end my concerns/efforts all boil down to preventing the development of a growing recurve section near the ricasso and not cutting into the edges (corners) of my expensive whetstones. This is can be achieved with a cleanly cut whetstone (like the Spyderco 302UF) as long as the geometry is as primitive:
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On my PM2 i also added a gratuitous mini notch. For an improved sharpening experience any blade imho should have one of the three alternatives:
  1. sharpening choil (for trouble-free sharpening)
  2. primitive geometry + sharpening choil (for trouble-free sharpening)
  3. primitive geometry (for best cutting performance)
paramil1piccwk1t.jpg


I am for sure not the first to have done this reasonable mod! There are some reasons why other PM2 owners wouldn't do a similar mod:
paramil2pic3ej71.jpg


On the Delica4 the questionable spot is on a smaller scale:
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Loving the mod! No sharpening choil added:
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Primitive geometry, yes please!
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Have yet to do the mod on my Endura4 :rolleyes:

Here is a video showing how (most of) the mod is done on the Edge Pro:
 
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Interesting mods:thumbsup:

However, I'm not an expert but I am not sure about your mods. They do not seem to me to increase/enhance the functionality of the knife while creating a potential weaker/stress point (e.g., when I pry with the knife it may be more likely to break at that point).
 
sharp_edge sharp_edge You are right, i didn't take into account that the mod would lead to new stress points in a stressful situation ;). I wouldn't pry with these three Spyderco knives though, the blade stock is thin.

Advantages of the mod:
  1. longer cutting edge (max possible length, no wasted millimeters!)
  2. one can "cut cardboard with the ricasso", i.e. use the ricasso as stopper and then as support when gliding (slicing) through the sheet of cardboard. this gives noticeable improved cutting performance! (well, as long as there is no sharpening choil o_O)
  3. trouble-free sharpening, no damage to the whetstone
  4. elimination of recurves, prevention of any recurve formation
  5. geometry looks clear, comprehensible, simple, beautiful
Disadvantages of the mod:
  1. creates new stress points, weakens the structural integrity because material is removed
  2. modded knife is not original mint anymore; reduced resell value
 
You could do a choil like KP does on theirs. Of course I would worry about it catching on what I'm cutting. Ive never had any problems sharpening my Spydercos and I don't feel the 1mm of sharpened is wasted.
 
Boxer .45 said:
You could do a choil like KP does
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interesting, the KP Knives choil design, thanks for the pointer!
not me though, the question is why Spyderco company doesn't do it, they are the maker.

Yes, the main disadvantage of sharpening choils is that they eventually catch on the material, and for example tear the cardboard.
 
Gary Graley is a big proponent of a sharpening choil at an angle, with an edge on the angle so it cuts material rather than catching it. I have done that to some of my knives with good results.
 
Sharpening choils are a design flaw IMO. They catch on material. What fishface5 describes is merely a fix to a bad design.

I’m more of user so I don’t really care how the edges look. I just have to pipe up and counter the idea of a sharpening choil whenever I see it. I hate them that much :D
 
It doesn't bother me, then again i like serrated and combo edges too.
It's really only an issue for knifeknuts, most people are happy to get a useable edge and use it.
My old man used to sharpen the kitchen knives on the back step.
If you find the mod better, more power to you.
Mitch
 
Hah :p the thread is to show that those Spyderco blades don't need sharpening choils. Since there is nothing to catch on, the blades without sharpening choils do perform better, especially if the entire edge up to the ricasso is sharpened.

My el cheapo knives suffer from the exfac recurves near the ricasso too, so i applied the quick mod there erh too:
firebird1picmwjzv.jpg


Similar photo, i only switched places of the two knives. My left eye sees better than the right:
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The untouched knife's recurve does cut into the reactangule edges of the whetstone, so the mod was really necessary here. And if you avoid the recurved portion when sharpening, you only grow the recurved portion over time. I've experienced it.

I don't despise sharpening choils. But i do despise recurves!
 
One of my biggest pet peeves of all time, the dreaded sharpening choil, Spyderco is one that seems for the most part to keep that edge solid up to the end of the blade, nice, wish more would do so. Here is one mod I did on my Benchmade Tri-Age


Using my sharpening stones, I grind down the sharp transition at the start of the edge and radius that so that if material falls into that area, and it happens more often than not, it will slide up an onto the blade, without hanging up.
On this one I also had taken and brought the spine down to create a nice long clip blade, more pointy now ;)

IMG_6424 by GaryWGraley, on Flickr

IMG_6426 by GaryWGraley, on Flickr

Benchmade_915_softenstart by GaryWGraley, on Flickr

G2
 
THIS! I cant stand sharpening my delica's and endura's because of this. Could this be done with a standard set sharpmaker plus diamond stones? I've tried on a current delica but I do not think I have succesfully sharpened that corner/heel yet.:confused:
 
LoveMeSumSpydies said:
I've tried on a current delica but
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"heel" ... THIS! , that's the word i didn't know i was looking for, thanks! :thumbsup:
Jef:cool: calls it "that ugly little hiccup" in his recent sharpening video of the Massdrop Delica Super Gold. Yes on the Delica it is little but not so little on the Paramilitary 2, as seen in the pics of the OP.

I have the Sharpmaker (204MF+204UF) and absolutely love the rods for freehand sharpening, i.e. without the black plastic. A key feature of the rod is that the long edges are generously rounded, the rod cross-section approximates a triangle only so much. I use the rounding radius of the rounded 'triangle corners' to file sharpening choils in my other blades. While you could use a 204-seriez rod to 95% clean up the heel of your Delica/Endura blades thru freehanded filing (i.e. without the Sharpmaker's black plastic), it would leave a teeny-tiny recurve right in the corner at the heel: the missing 5% are not a big deal if you sharpen the knife with 204 rods only, for 204-freehanding would ensure that you would not grow the recurve, which is nice. Iirc i filed with the 204M to clean up the heel area of my PM2 S30V.

So the answer is yes, this could be done with the standard set sharpmaker 204MF. The expensive pair of diamond rods 204D is not absolutely needed; they'd help do the same job faster 's all. Ever since i bought the 302UF, i try to use it over my 204UF; either stone has its own subtle advantages in different applications. For example the 'bottom' face of the 302UF has sharply cut 90° edges (corners), that is with no chamfers/no rounding radius; a really welcome (intended/unintended?) feature to help clean up the Delica/Endura heels 100%! (The 302UF top face has chamfered edges btw.)
 
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Thank you for the info, kreisler, I now have the temptation to buy a spyderco bench stone, or maybe a shapton when the time is right. Also, you use JUST the UF for sharpening in that heel of the blade? You never find yourself using the more coarse brown medium stones?
 
91bravo 91bravo Thanks for sharing these clear photos! Your mod is very nicely cleanly executed. I see that you fix most issues (A, B, D) and don't touch the ricasso (C) oic.

C Chris "Anagarika" i think have seen the video before thanks likewise! :thumbsup: The notch in my PM2, which i made last year several months before i bought the 302UF, is very subtle too; back then i believe i used a combination of Sharpmaker rods and my beloved RUBY3000 stone to file the subtle notch. Filing a big notch is definitely easier than filing the OP-suggested primitive geometry.

L LoveMeSumSpydies Thanks also for your kind feedback. I can't speak for Shapton stones (or Chosera Naniwa Suehiro Yahiko Imanishi Arashiyama Mizutani Kokiniwa Harimoto :p). The only classic size bench stone i ever owned is the 302UF. The UF is sufficient for the task on a Delica VG10 heel but not on a S30V heel; it takes forever to grind down S30V steel with UF. I just know that the Spyderco stones and the RUBY3000 are much harder than the Japanese waterstones, which is the advantage when you go in that heel with the stone/stone edge. I don't have the 302M stone; if i had it, i'd try it on the S30V heel, no doubt!

You didn't ask but lemme tell you what i find good bad ugly about the 302UF:
  • Good:
    • amazing clear stone feedback (sound; feeling)
    • if prepared/used/cleaned with oil: doesn't load/get loaded, easy to clean
    • handy edge geometry: top face is 45° chamfered vs. bottom face is left 90° unchamfered
    • very hard surface, doesn't dish out; very smooth finish, doesn't degrade under proper usage
    • case can be used as stone elevation for knuckle clearance (with a rag/mat in between)
    • if desired: can be used to raise a burr
    • in experienced hands sharpens wonderfully and effectively
    • in experienced hands eliminates the otherwise obligatory last step: stropping
  • Bad:
    • expensive int. price
    • should have come with a matching-sized anti-slip rag/rubber mat
    • case made out of cheap plastic quality, grade "5/10"
  • Ugly:
    • surface is only "99.5%" flat, the missing 0.5% for perfection do become a problem/pose a challenge for sharpening certain long blades 100.0% perfectly
    • impossible to diy flatten to 100.0% perfection without ruining the original very smooth finish
My use of the 302UF is limited to the following concrete application cases:
  • sharpening short-ish straight blades to 100% satisfaction
  • sharpening long kitchen knives to 99.5% perfection
  • occasional sharpening EDC folders like Delica Endura PM2
  • cleaning up the heel area as suggested in the OP
The advantage of Japanese waterstones is that you can (and should) flatten them to 100.0% perfection. "An unflat spot/area on a whetstone has the same :poop: effect as a tiny recurve in the blade shape." ;)
 
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Wow, so I can tell right away by just reading what you've wrote, that you are experienced with sharpening your knives, with Spyderco bench stones at least. Thanks for giving me a good amount of info to go off of on Spyderco versus Japanese stones. Other stones I've seen(in supersteel steve's sharpening videos and in michael christy videos) are the diamond ones done by DMT, https://www.dmtsharp.com/sharpeners/folding-models/double-sided-diafold/, while they may be folding stones or plates, and maybe not so easily placed on a flat surface to sharpen (don't have one, wouldn't know), I think they are perfectly priced in my opinion, two different grit levels for 47 bucks!
Also, for that Ruby 3000 stone, I assume that would be the grit rating?Do you remember who would be the maker of that stone or where to find it?
 
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