Is CS going to start some form of "MAP" price control ?!? ?

MaxFisher said:
In theory (we won't get into whether it actually works), MAP prices ensures that knife dealers have a slightly more level playing field. It prevents larger knife dealers from leveraging volume to offer deep, deep discounts with which smaller dealers can't compete. If we disregard Amazon (who may or may not play by the rules) and think of larger dealers as being the BladeHQs of the world, this decreases the gap in price between them and the smaller internet dealers and the brick and mortar shops. Whether you're for, against, or indifferent to MAP, it's an attempt on the part of knife manufacturers to prevent the monopolization of the retail sale of their product. I can't speak for Cold Steel on this, but Spyderco implemented MAP because many of their dealers were asking for it. While knife companies should care about the end line users of their knives, selling to the ELU is not how they make their money. Orders from dealers are where they make their money. Once the product it sold to the dealers, it is up to the dealer to move it on to the consumer. Based on the prevalence of MAP in the market, it seems like it is increasing demand for their product from the dealers, plain and simple.
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Unless the dealers can t move the product as well at the new mandated higher price.
I bet the law of supply and demand applies at each level of sales.
 
This Map pricing boondoggle is such bull on so many levels. It's price fixing - pure and simple. Sure, CS and the retailers want to raise their margins but frankly, as the consumer - not my problem. My only concern is how much valuta I'm willing to part with for a specific product based on my needs and wants. Since MSRP's are set ridiculously high (by virtually everyone, not just CS) and street prices on CS products were usually 40-50% off of MSRP, this MAP scheme is in effect a 15-20% price hike. Now if there is a legitimate reason for this - higher labor costs, higher material costs, even just plain want higher margins - fine. But don't insult us by telling us it's for our own good and we'll magically suddenly get superlative service whenever we need it. In my humble experience, service with any knife company has been pretty hit and miss - sometimes it's been truly great, sometimes truly abysmal and mostly "what's the least we can do to get you off our back?" - though never phrased that bluntly. In the long run, I don't think it's (MAP) going to be of any great benefit to anyone. I think a lot of people - in a relatively small market - are simply going to go elsewhere and/or buy used. As an example, I have a AD15 on the way - ordered after the MAP increase. But the only reason I did order it was because I got a $50 gift card that knocked the price back down to pre MAP levels. Same thing happened with my Spyderco Hundred Pacer - I wanted that knife for more than a year but couldn't bring myself to order one, mostly because of CS offerings in CTS XHP and G10 for more than hundred dollars less. When it unaccountably went on sale at a deep discount (which only lasted a day) online and I also happened to have another gift card, I leapt on it and so glad I did. I love that knife but I still wouldn't buy it at the asking price even now. In the long run, they're shooting themselves in the foot - at least for their higher rung products. I wonder how much of this is pure ego - I mean all of these companies probably make the vast majority of their money in the under $50 market with average joes who would never even think of shelling out above that price point. Is MAP simply a means to prop up ego satisfaction for the high end?

Rant off! :)
 
I don't like MAP pricing. All this does is prevent dealers that are willing to give up some margin to offer lower prices. It's in the manufacturer and distributor's best interests NOT customers.

But, CS did leave a loophole...
"3. This Policy only concerns advertised prices, and does not relate to actual sales prices of any
item. Further, this policy applies equally to all Cold Steel distributors and dealers." - Thanks craytab!

So, what we'll see with their blades is what I see all the time with electronics, "Add to cart to see our best price". Slows down shopping to check prices, but usually worth the effort when you're ready to buy.
 
evltcat said:
So, what we'll see with their blades is what I see all the time with electronics, "Add to cart to see our best price". Slows down shopping to check prices, but usually worth the effort when you're ready to buy.
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You sure about that?

4. Advertising that in any way suggests or implies a price lower than the MAP, will be considered
a violation of this Policy.
 
AF said:
You sure about that?

4. Advertising that in any way suggests or implies a price lower than the MAP, will be considered
a violation of this Policy.
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I bet we see it, and it gets a pass. We'll know soon...
 
evltcat said:
I bet we see it, and it gets a pass. We'll know soon...
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Yep, we'll see. Benchmade, Spyderco, ZT, WE, Reate, etc. have MAP and I don't think there's an "add to cart" work-around with them. All you can do is email or call a dealer for a better price. Depending on the dealer and the brand you may or may not succeed.
And then there's the auction site that has site-wide sales every so often.
 
45Shooter said:
My only concern is how much valuta I'm willing to part with for a specific product based on my needs and wants. In the long run, I don't think it's (MAP) going to be of any great benefit to anyone. I think a lot of people - in a relatively small market - are simply going to go elsewhere and/or buy used.
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I agree, and case in point, I was considering getting a trailmaster in the new A2 steel. A while back, a TM in O-1 was something like $125 if you got a good deal. With MAP, the price for the TM in A2 is $195. Even if you added $30 for the new and better steel, it really should only be about $155. If you check competitors like TOPS, there are plenty of alternatives that have arguably better fit and finish than the TM and with differential heat treat as well, for a lot less than $195. With MAP pricing applied, I fail to see why I should pay an extra 40-50 for the TM. The new steel alone ain't worth $70 more than the O-1 steel. If it doesn't make sense to me value wise, I'm going to shop elsewhere.
 
DShiflet said:
And that's EXACTLY what you get from Knifecenter and DLT so I fail to see your point?
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Meaning that I'd rather get the best deal they can give me on my current purchase, rather than having to spend $1,000 to get a free $50 knife sometime in the future and so on. If they can do stuff like that, then they obviously could've given a slightly better deal on the current purchase. Just sayin'.

Not in love with all those incentives. They are basically trying to get you to buy a lot of crap you don't need, just to get a carrot or two in return. They can keep the carrots, I'll take the best deal they can give me.
 
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Those loyalty programs are common and smart business especially in a MAP world.
 
If dealers feel the need to offer incentive programs to ameliorate the imposed MAP policies, then what does that do to the argument that MAP is somehow better for the dealer and the customer? IMO it’s an admission that the dealers don’t need it and they know sales will suffer because of it. So who is really benefitting?
 
deadzonepatrol said:
Meaning that I'd rather get the best deal they can give me on my current purchase, rather than having to spend $1,000 to get a free $50 knife sometime in the future and so on. If they can do stuff like that, then they obviously could've given a slightly better deal on the current purchase. Just sayin'.
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Except they're giving the same (or better) deal every other dealer offers, including the many without those incentive programs. It's not like you're getting gouged for those programs, unless you believe literally every dealer is gouging you.
 
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DShiflet said:
Except they're giving the same (or better) deal every other dealer offers, including the many without those incentive programs. It's not like you're getting gouged for those programs, unless you believe literally every dealer is gouging you.
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Exactly. All dealers are now going to be equal. I'd rather shop at one with a points or incentive program given the service is the same. I've gotten gift cards, and not small ones, through these programs. Who doesn't like straight up cash off your next purchase? One incentive for a benchmade was a maintenance kit (blue lube, cleaner, and quality torx bits) that I use all the time. There are ways for dealers to incentivize you shopping with them. I expect we will see more of this as map usage increases. Map ain't going away, might as well shop around for the best incentives.
 
craytab said:
Exactly. All dealers are now going to be equal. I'd rather shop at one with a points or incentive program given the service is the same. I've gotten gift cards, and not small ones, through these programs. Who doesn't like straight up cash off your next purchase? One incentive for a benchmade was a maintenance kit (blue lube, cleaner, and quality torx bits) that I use all the time. There are ways for dealers to incentivize you shopping with them. I expect we will see more of this as map usage increases. Map ain't going away, might as well shop around for the best incentives.
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yep. exactly.

since map on other brands I started using knifecenter, as an example of a dealer giving other incentives than lowest price, a lot more than I used to. figure i pay same price might as well get a discount down the road. other dealers would be smart to implement programs such as that.
 
DShiflet said:
Except they're giving the same (or better) deal every other dealer offers, including the many without those incentive programs.
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True for MAP priced brands, as CS is now unfortunately, but for those who will look at other brands that don't have MAP pricing, there is a lot of variation in price across dealers for the same knife. I like to shop around, so a huge volume incentive doesn't appeal much to me.
 
deadzonepatrol said:
True for MAP priced brands, as CS is now unfortunately, but for those who will look at other brands that don't have MAP pricing, there is a lot of variation in price across dealers for the same knife. I like to shop around, so a huge volume incentive doesn't appeal much to me.
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I've found it to be the case on every non-MAP priced brand as well, so not sure what you're ordering but it's clearly different than me.
 
DShiflet said:
I've found it to be the case on every non-MAP priced brand as well, so not sure what you're ordering but it's clearly different than me.
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Recently picked up Ontario RAT 7 and SP6. Got a really good deal. I had previously posted the dealer that I got them from, but it looks like a moderator tanked my post, not supposed to mention dealers who aren't on this site.:eek:
 
willc said:
My two most recent Cold Steel purchases were from non forum mega retailers that don’t play by the rules.
Pretty good deals too.
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Yeah ! I'm looking at an orange handled Ultimate Hunter for ~$87 .

54% off . Not bad ! But the great deals might go away as dealers empty out their existing inventory ?
 
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