Ka Bar vs 119 Buck Special

[knarfeng]

I was once in a discussion thread with Chuck Buck. The question of toughness came up. Chuck said that at the high hardness they run the 420HC, even their S30V has greater toughness. The 1095 CroVan is significantly tougher than that. With the proven track record of the KaBar as a military field knife, saying that it's not tough is laughable.

 

[Pilsner]

Agreed

Agreed that black leather is more resistant to humidity? Beam me up, Scotty...

 

[Pilsner]

I was once in a discussion thread with Chuck Buck. The question of toughness came up. Chuck said that at the high hardness they run the 420HC, even their S30V has greater toughness. The 1095 CroVan is significantly tougher than that. With the proven track record of the KaBar as a military field knife, saying that it's not tough is laughable.

It seems that no matter how many times it is explained, ‘toughness’ and ‘hardness’ are concepts that some find very difficult to understand.

 

[cbach8tw]

It seems that no matter how many times it is explained, ‘toughness’ and ‘hardness’ are concepts that some find very difficult to understand.

Agreed.

 

[19-3ben]

Agreed that black leather is more resistant to humidity? Beam me up, Scotty...

It’s Gaston. You didn’t expect a post without some fantastic misinformation did you?

 

[Gaston444]

Yes, misinformation like S30V is a knife steel that keeps its apex straight slicing carboard, once

and Chinese 420J is strictly for wall hangers...

And rust is never a problem for Carbon steel either, if you are not a wimp and use it all the time: Professional kitchens the world over just laugh at usefulness of stainless:

That's because the real woodsmen of the Frontier always chose Carbon steel: If it was good enough for them, it certainly is good enough for us today, in our softer times.

And the KABAR is still the cutting edge of all purpose military knives.

What else have I learned today?

Gaston

 

[Pilsner]

Yes, misinformation like S30V is a knife steel that keeps its apex straight slicing carboard, once

and Chinese 420J is strictly for wall hangers...

And rust is never a problem for Carbon steel either, if you are not a wimp and use it all the time: Professional kitchens the world over just laugh at usefulness of stainless:

That's because the real woodsmen of the Frontier always chose Carbon steel: If it was good enough for them, it certainly is good enough for us today, in our softer times.

And the KABAR is still the cutting edge of all purpose military knives.

What else have I learned today?

Gaston

Blah blah blah.

By your own admission, you spend less time in the wild than my nine year old daughter. Chopping wood in your back yard experiments is completely irrelevant. Literally nobody gives a tinker’s cuss about your opinions on steel. You talk the talk, bizarre though your talk may be, but you don’t walk the walk. There are plenty of people here with real experience, myself included, and none of us fit your pathetic straw man arguments, and none of us agree with your conclusions. Keep posting and we will keep refuting, boring as it is for us, because this forum is a place where beginners go for information. Got it?

Oh, and that thing where one person insists that they are right and the entire world says they are wrong? Well, once in a billion you might find a history making scientific break through in the offing. The other 999,999,999 times it is usually a sign of ill health.

 

[19-3ben]

I just realized, there is an obvious answer to Ka-Bar vs. 119.

Smatchet.

 

[Danke42]

Yes, misinformation like S30V is a knife steel that keeps its apex straight slicing carboard, once

and Chinese 420J is strictly for wall hangers...

And rust is never a problem for Carbon steel either, if you are not a wimp and use it all the time: Professional kitchens the world over just laugh at usefulness of stainless:

That's because the real woodsmen of the Frontier always chose Carbon steel: If it was good enough for them, it certainly is good enough for us today, in our softer times.

And the KABAR is still the cutting edge of all purpose military knives.

What else have I learned today?

Gaston

You stated plainly that it was illegal to use carbon steel in "Professional Kitchens" Please cite the exact statute and relevant details.

You've also been clearly instructed before by staff members to back up your more outlandish claims with the supporting documentation.

Nothing personal. We're not talking about you. We are talking about these quote unquote "facts" you use to speak with false authority.

 

[jimmyd1982]

You stated plainly that it was illegal to use carbon steel in "Professional Kitchens" Please cite the exact statute and relevant details.

You've also been clearly instructed before by staff members to back up your more outlandish claims with the supporting documentation.

Nothing personal. We're not talking about you. We are talking about these quote unquote "facts" you use to speak with false authority.

I'm waiting for the proof that black sheaths are 50 times more water proof than brown.

 

[MarkN86]

Clearly either one will work but I'm in the Kabar camp for combat utility or fighting. As small a chance as one would have of ever actually using a knife for non-utility purposes in combat, in my mind the Kabar's toughness and grip security would win this round. Under stress and going full speed you might hit a piece of gear or embed the tip into bone. A dull knife can still stab and can be sharpened, a broken knife can't really be welded.

The Buck gives up toughness with its thin grind, it will hold an edge a little better and is optimized for more delicate or precise cutting tasks. My only gripes about the 119 are the slick handle and the small guard. I know it's not what was asked about, but I think just about all of the 119's "tactical shortcomings" are addressed in the Buck Nighthawk. I might even choose the Nighthawk over the Kabar.

 

[Henry Beige]

At several dozen, maybe more than a hundred motorcycle rallies over the years, Ka-Bar tended to be the choice of BMW riders, while Harley riders leaned toward the 119. It made sense to me. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[deltablade]

Glad this thread got rejuvinated. I have both knives, and the 124. Like em all. 124 probably the toughest, yet for combat I would pick Kabar over 119, as it stays in my hand better, and has a touch longer reach than the 119.

 

[Yonose]

I also have the d2 extreme, it seems they kept the hardness of the d2 high, making it possibly more brittle than the original? I have the 119 old steel and new, and the 120 with the old steel. I guess if I had to pick one for an actual knife fight it would be, hands down, the Kabar big brother. With Kraton handle. The serrations on the back could inflict heavy damage to an opponent if one was lucky enough to get the chance for a stab and quick backcut, possibly subduing and killing an opponent with 3 movements (last one to the side of the head left unprotected by the severed tendons on the second)even one wearing some protection around the upper vitals.(such as a layers of denim over/under a thick leather jacket zipped past the neck.

 

[Hickory n steel]

I do not yet own a MK2 pattern knife, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you probably can't go wrong with either.
Sure there are pros and cons of either on paper , but I'm not sure one would really be miles ahead of the other in the field.
The KA-BAR / MK2 is a good choice for obvious reasons, but I've been told the Buck 119 special and slightly larger 120 general were the most common private purchase fixed blades during the Vietnam war because they were made of stainless steel.

Both have proven themselves in the field.

 

[Yonose]

Yes, misinformation like S30V is a knife steel that keeps its apex straight slicing carboard, once

and Chinese 420J is strictly for wall hangers...

And rust is never a problem for Carbon steel either, if you are not a wimp and use it all the time: Professional kitchens the world over just laugh at usefulness of stainless:

That's because the real woodsmen of the Frontier always chose Carbon steel: If it was good enough for them, it certainly is good enough for us today, in our softer times.

And the KABAR is still the cutting edge of all purpose military knives.

What else have I learned today?

Gaston

The first post was so lucid I couldn’t identify the author without looking. This one, not so much. Professional kitchens have no time for laughing, unless you mean a common diner, where they use what they have and don’t laugh or complain. Second, in reverse order those are wall hangers, and not very good ones at that! 3rd if I recognize that Gerber it was made long before s30v was done right, not that it would have make the best stabber blade anyway.

 

[Yonose]

I do not yet own a MK2 pattern knife, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you probably can't go wrong with either.
Sure there are pros and cons of either on paper , but I'm not sure one would really be miles ahead of the other in the field.
The KA-BAR / MK2 is a good choice for obvious reasons, but I've been told the Buck 119 special and slightly larger 120 general were the most common private purchase fixed blades during the Vietnam war because they were made of stainless steel.

Both have proven themselves in the field.

No question the 1095 would have been a pita to maintain during the rainy season, especially considering all the other crap they had to do while out in the jungle. Change socks, clean rifle(especially so until they got the ammo right for m16), check for leeches/bites try to keep the body dry on top of knife maintenance is time I would have rather spent sleeping, had I been there I would have carried the 120 or 119. Plus the grips fill my hands tight, so slipping wouldn’t be an issue for large hands. But I think the bayonet got more use for fighting purposes.

 

[Hickory n steel]

No question the 1095 would have been a pita to maintain during the rainy season, especially considering all the other crap they had to do while out in the jungle. Change socks, clean rifle(especially so until they got the ammo right for m16), check for leeches/bites try to keep the body dry on top of knife maintenance is time I would have rather spent sleeping, had I been there I would have carried the 120 or 119. Plus the grips fill my hands tight, so slipping wouldn’t be an issue for large hands. But I think the bayonet got more use for fighting purposes.

Yep, plus the stacked leather tended to rott.

My 119 fits my hand pretty well, but it's definitely not my favorite handle shape in the world.
In today's deasert combat in the middle east, I'm really not sure what I would personally choose.

 

[Yonose]

I just read on a sub forum one battalion was given strict orders that no fixed blade could exceed 3,” in order not to “scare” the civilians in Afghanistan.

 

[Hickory n steel]

I just read on a sub forum one battalion was given strict orders that no fixed blade could exceed 3,” in order not to “scare” the civilians in Afghanistan.

Well that must be some specific circumstances, though it makes no sense anyways.

Why would a 4"+knife blade being carried by a good guy with a rifle, sidearm, bayonette, and grenades scare anyone ?