Katrina Aftermath

Discussion in 'Himalayan Imports' started by munk, Aug 30, 2005.

  1. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    Even O'Reilly said it, "Never, ever trust the Federal government. They will always let you down." This is paraphrased, and he was saying this as a matter of fact, not part of the blame the feds wagon.

    Senator Clinton is calling for a Katrina Commission.
    That's not going to give her my vote.

  2. arty


    Oct 18, 2003
    If we can't rely on the Federal Government when there is a crisis of this magnitude, then we need to improve on FEMA.
    Something needs to change.
    We can't wait 2 days if there is a major terrorist attack on a city, or if there is a catastrophic natural disaster. More hurricanes may be on the way.

    After we fire the head of FEMA, we should be throwing more money at homeland security and FEMA. We should not try to skimp on the Army, National Guard, and our police and fire support.

    We are already spending lots of money on homeland security, but if we can't rely on the Federal Gov't and can't get rapid response times, then we need to beef up the programs that are designed to protect us. It is money well spent.

    I really think that people like Brown should be fired. He didn't do his job. They guy is head of FEMA, and was saying on Thurs. that security was great in NO.
  3. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    I cannot understand how more money would change poor communication.

    The point about the Federal Govt is that no matter how efficient it becomes, it will always be an overburdened bureacracy. Centralized power is like that. There are some intrinsic 'laws' at work here.

    What OReilly and others are stressing is rely upon yourself first. The upshot of relying upon external authority we see daily when a refugee complains the MRE is not good enough.

  4. arty


    Oct 18, 2003
    The past is done and over with, but people are still being helped. The guard is helping.
    If I am expected to build levees, then we are all doomed. That is why we have an Army Corps of Engineers.
    If they need more money to build stronger levees, then we need to give it to them....or abandon NO.
    If people in charge are not doing their jobs, then we should fire them and get better people in there.
    If I didn't do my job, I'd be canned.
    If we can't rely on FEMA, then we had better fix it so that we can rely on it in the future. IF we can't do this and can't rely on them, then we ought to fire all of them and spend the money on something else - like the army.
    This is also my view of the executive branch of Government and the Congress. I think that they are all shirking their responsibilities, and should get off their butts and do their jobs. If not, we should get rid of them.
    If we don't need a fed., then why pay for it?
    I think that we should start at the top, but that is just a personal opinion.
    There are some things that only a Federal Government can do right if the scale is large enough - like raise an army, protect the homeland with a national guard, etc.
  5. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    In many ways, one should not expect much more service than you presently get from the IRS. Does the Army expect to win every single battle in a war?

    We'll do better.

    You know, even if I were poor, I'd have had at least a three day supply of water and food with me if I'd chosen to weather the storm. Is the Government responsible for that?

  6. Yvsa


    May 18, 1999
    Last Friday just after noon there was a special news report on one of our local channel's and I'm reasonably certain that most if not all major news services carried it.
    The news report was showing President Bush walking around a hard hit area in Mississippi and talking with a few, I'm certain carefully selected, folks.
    Bush came right out and said he wasn't happy with the way some agencies had responded and that he thought they could have done better.
    Then I guess he realized what he was saying and started crawfishing saying that he didn't really mean that but that he meant this.
    Too late the cat was already outta the bag. It may not be something anyone sees done right away or highly publicized but I'd just about bet some heads are going to roll before this is all over, or at least some severe private a$$ chewings are going to take place.
    I wouldn't want to be in some officials shoe's for sure.
  7. not2sharp

    not2sharp Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 1999
    So if I remember right...and going by posts here...Hurricane on Tuesday...evacuting by bus on Wednesday? 24 hour response time is not fast enough?

    IIRC, the storm hit on Monday night and into the predawn hours of Tuesday morning. The strom event itself was around 8 hours in duration; and, the first Buses did not leave until very late on Wednesday evening around 10:00PM. Even then it was but a handful of busses. So we are talking about 36-40 hours into the event, and hope for survivors begins to fail after 72 hours. Starvation is not a real issue, but injuries, the trapped, the ill, and the hospitalized, the exposed, and the dehydraded can fail very quickly. Temperatures in those attics can rise above 120 degrees during the day. What was illustrated is that the concept of a coordinated emergency planning was a farce. Clearly, the government did not have the necessary agreements in place to activate the National Guard within the various states, or private businesses. You would think that we would have had blanket supply agreements executed and in place with the various states, and major industry, to call upon resources in an emergency, but I suspect that that was not the case.

  8. arty


    Oct 18, 2003
    I saw this in the NY Times a few minutes ago. If I were in the hospital in ICU, then I wouldn't want to wait a few days for help when the power went out. For the sick, old, and babies, there can be no long wait. There are times when we need to help our own citizens, not just people overseas.
    Unfortunately, this is not an isolated case. There were too many who died in nursing homes and hospitals.

    "The administration's problems in the crisis seemed to crystallize in a dramatic appearance on Sunday on the NBC program "Meet the Press" by Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish near New Orleans. Sobbing, he told of an emergency management official receiving phone calls from his mother, who, trapped in a nursing home, pleaded day after day for rescue. Assured by federal officials, the man promised her repeatedly that help was on the way.

    "Every day she called him and said, "Are you coming, son? Is somebody coming?' " Mr. Broussard said. "And he said, 'Yeah, Mama, somebody's coming to get you.' Somebody's coming to get you on Tuesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Wednesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Thursday. Somebody's coming to get you on Friday. And she drowned Friday night. She drowned Friday night."

    We need an effective FEMA, so that if another crisis hits, we will be prepared for it.
  9. Dave Rishar

    Dave Rishar

    Oct 25, 2004
    That's an awful story, Arty, but I ask you this: if it were one of your loved ones in a nursing home, how long would you wait before you went ahead and did something yourself?

    After the second day, I think that I'd be done with waiting. If it's important to me and no one else will do it for me, I'll do it myself.

    I'm not implying that the federal (or state, or county, or municipal) government doesn't have a responsibility to the citizens. The government does. That's what we pay it for. What I'm implying is that this same government regularly botches my pay, loses my mail, sends me legal documents that belong to someone else, puts innocent people in jail and tries to call me up for jury duty at an address that I haven't lived at for over ten years. (And, most tellingly, is not the least bit surprised when I don't show up and doesn't even get angry about it.) It's unreasonable for me to expect them to have all the answers because they don't.

    People died in nursing homes and hospitals. What were the staff doing? I hope to God that they were doing everything that they could. What were family members doing?

    For the ones that had the capability to stay or go, why did they stay? Why did they move there in the first place?

    The government did not requisition a hurricane for that area and blame does not begin and end with them.

    But, this is water under the bridge. What do we do now? It should be evident:

    - Get the situation under control. (This will take a while.) Prevent further damage and loss of life.
    - The folks who dropped the ball (and there are many) need to man up and take responsibility for it. The voters can decide whether they're to be forgiven or not.
    - Analyze what exactly went wrong, and fix it. If we're not positive of how to solve the problem, we can at least figure out better ways to handle it next time.
    - Other organizations need to take a good hard look at their own emergency plans and make changes, if necessary. (This one, I fear, won't happen to any great extent.)

    If more money is needed I'm sure that more money can be found, but simply throwing money at the problem (a "gummint" way to handle things if there ever was one) is not the right way to go about it. Let's take a moment and figure out where that money should be thrown, and how much should be thrown, and where we're going to get more of it should it run out.

    I truly, truly sympathize for the people who were the victims of circumstance. For the ones who made bad choices, or were stubborn, or willfully ignorant, or who expected and demanded that others solve their problems for them when they could have taken care of things by themselves, I have considerably less sympathy. They had options and chose not to exercise them.
  10. Bri in Chi

    Bri in Chi

    May 28, 2003
    Munk, my friend, I believe that if Senator Clinton walked on water, brought Osama in on a dog leash, and turned water into wine, she would not get your vote :rolleyes:
  11. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    Bri, you are absolutely right!

    .....but if she brought Osama in on a dog leash, she'd have my respect.

  12. ibear


    Apr 15, 2002
    HeeeeeeHe..... Ahhhh, so what's wrong with Hillary?


  13. Yvsa


    May 18, 1999
    Just looking around.:D
  14. arty


    Oct 18, 2003
    A good sense of humor is always helpful in these times!
  15. ibear


    Apr 15, 2002
    There ya go again.... making sense! I just love that about you.

    Oh, I see ya posted a very nice picture of Hillary!


  16. raghorn


    Feb 23, 2002
    ...you can rely on me.

    I was asked by my employer this morning to go down and help clean things up, I said yes and I'm leaving tomorrow. Will be back in 30-120 days. God bless!
  17. Aardvark

    Aardvark Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 26, 2002
    Well, I THINK that's good news. At least there will be someone there who know what they are doing.

    Let us know if you need anything. Especially sharp things.
  18. Kismet

    Kismet Basic Member Basic Member

    Jan 30, 2002

    If you don't wacherass down there, I'm coming to get you, and I'm bringing a REAL cranky Ndn with me.

    Got it?

    Be well and safe.
  19. Nasty

    Nasty Chief Cook & Bottle Wash

    Nov 11, 2003
    I'll back up the ndn....
  20. Ad Astra

    Ad Astra

    Jul 30, 2004
    Be safe, Raghorn, and keep a look out for my German MRE's...

    Ad Astra

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