Katrina Aftermath

Discussion in 'Himalayan Imports' started by munk, Aug 30, 2005.

  1. roughedges


    Oct 3, 2004

    I don't intend to interrupt your discussion as I am finding it most interesting and educational but I found the above interesting on a personal level. A few months ago I was doing a spreadsheet inventory of damaged pieces, actual cost of original build, projected cost of repair, etc. for a sculptor that I occasionally work for. I noticed that the price of stainless steel sheet had gone up around 300% and commented on it. Collins complained that, while the QC was generally less, it was still cheaper than American stainless. I wish I had a recording of his diatribe on the subject.

    for anyone interested in having a look this is what he does: Collins Art and he is a genuine war hero to boot, you just won't ever hear him say it.

    **This inappropriate tangent brought to you courtesy of roughedges. You will now be returned to your regularly scheduled programming.** :D
  2. not2sharp

    not2sharp Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 1999
    In the process, I discovered that the 30% tariff we slapped on steel imported from certain nations increased costs of products (due to raising cost of steel) by $732,000 for every U.S. job saved.

    The steel tariff was poor strategy. If you are going to impose a tariff on steel imports you also have to extend the tariff to all products manufactured using comparable steel. Otherwise, you simply put your downstream industries (US steel using manufacturers) at risk.

    The $732,000 is pretty consistent. Usually, as a rule of thumb, a major business generates $1,000,000 in revenues/employee/year (e.g. sell an extra $10 million and the company will probably add another 10 people)

  3. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    I am enjoying N2's conversation with Thomas Linton very much, and as you say, Roughedges, it is educational.

  4. hawkwind


    Oct 26, 2004
    You guys think the fuel is costly in your country?
    We are expected to pay 1.50$ for liter from tomorrrow.
    My car takes 8 l/100 km means that I got to pay 12$ for 100 km.
    That in the country where people makelittle less than half of the relative income the people in US have.
    The huricane hystery was great opportunity for fuel companies, even if the situation improves, the prices will not sink!

    Consequently price of any goods which is transported during manufacture is going right through the roof. This means everything is going to be unbearable costly. Services, rural work, public services such as a mail and all.

  5. not2sharp

    not2sharp Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 1999
    You guys think the fuel is costly in your country?
    We are expected to pay 1.50$ for liter from tomorrrow.


    What part of the planet are you in?

    The temptation to make these kinds of comparisons is there because it seems easy to do. However, the price of a gallon/liter of gasoline between venues may have little in common. Each country, and even each US city, defines the basket of goods which we call a "gallon of gasoline" differently; the chemical composition may vary (color, smell, octane, sufur content, other additives), transportation/distribution costs will vary, and it includes numerous taxes (sales, city, state, federal, special programs). So this is really an apples and oranges comparison. You may be paying twice the nominal price, but if that includes funding a public health care insurance plan or an education system, you are really buying much more then just a gallon of gasoline.

    Although, it still sucks when it goes up. :barf: :rolleyes: :barf: :mad:


    edited for clarity (pumping more coffee in)
  6. hawkwind


    Oct 26, 2004
    I m in Czech republic. The true is that fuel is heavilly taxed, but the prize is not bearable.
  7. Thomas Linton

    Thomas Linton

    Jun 16, 2003
    Quick, without research, on what day did the levees fail and how soon after that did the first bsues of refugees leave for Houston?
  8. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    The levies broke tuesday and the first buses to Houston were on Thurs. That's my 'quick' without looking. Buses Wed?

    What's the answer?

  9. Thomas Linton

    Thomas Linton

    Jun 16, 2003
    On Monday, the disaster had missed NOLA. Mississippi was the big problem.

    On Tuesday the levees failed when wind from the north (low pressure center north and east/winds counter-clockwise) was pushing at the lake-side levees to the north. City floods from the north. One highway into NOLA left operable.

    On Wednesday the first buses left for Houston.

    On Thursday, NOLA had been waiting for help for "a week."

    Somehow, inconvenient facts get "lost" in less than a week.


    Imagine police stations with: a) no food; b) no water; and c) no auxiliary power. Why would they ever need that?


    Remember the La. Emergency Management agency distributing emergency food and water?


    Every telephone central office has auxiliary power. Not the pumps in NOLA.


    How's this for a working theory for the delay in sending help to the Convention Center: the out-of-towners thought the Superdome WAS the "convention center." Never underestimate ignorance. "Everybody knows" does not compute.


    Note carefully the medja statements that feds should have known that "hundreds of thousands would be unable to evacuate NO." Compare and contrast with percentage said to be without transportation (I have herd as high at 20%. Anyone have a better number?) and to the actual population of NOLA (<500,000). Somehow, I can't get to "hundreds of thousands." Ted Koppel can.


    There was "no one in charge" at the City's Convention Center. Why is that the fault of the feds in the first instance? Can you have an "emergency plan" for evacuating 1000's of folks temporarily to a given location that totally fails to provide for leadership? Security? Food? Water? Medical care? Sanitation? (Email the Mayor and State and ask them.)


    A former Mayor of NOLA was on TV this AM. He said that this is about race/color. He said he thought there would have been a better response IF the storm had hit WASINGTON D.C. or L.A. as compared to NOLA, a city inhabited primarily by "persons of color." Talking head nodded wisely in reponse.

    QUESTION: Has the former mayor or talking head ever been to D.C. or L.A. - both cities with majority "minority" populations? Guess not.


    Never let facts get in the way of good demagoguery.


    Enough blame to go around. :(
  10. Nasty

    Nasty Chief Cook & Bottle Wash

    Nov 11, 2003
    I love it when Tom talks sense...
  11. Ad Astra

    Ad Astra

    Jul 30, 2004
    ...and I love it when some idiot takes a catastrophe and bends it to their own agenda.

    "Great Terorrist Katrina Is Doing The Work Of Allah"
    this from muslims that hate us.

    "New Orleans Is Being Punished For Immorality"
    this from an American religious nut who noticed there was supposed to be a gay pride event in NOLA last weekend.

    And another one said that the storm was because of "the sin of abortion". Because "God controls the weather."

    So all we have to do is overturn Roe vs. Wade, and no more hurricanes will ever hit us.


    No, it's not funny. It's in my Sunday paper.

    Ad Astra :eek: :thumbdn: :( :barf: :mad: :thumbdn: :barf: :mad:
  12. not2sharp

    not2sharp Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 1999
    Never underestimate ignorance. "Everybody knows" does not compute.

    This reminds me of an old Far Side Cartoon. It showed NASA launch control and one guy is telling the other "two minutes to lift off and all is green". In the background on one of the monitors we can see that the space shuttle has been mounted on launch pad upside down. The caption read: "Nobody notices the big mistakes"

  13. arty


    Oct 18, 2003
    From an article in the NY Times - I paraphrase -

    Marty Montgomery sat on the roof of his home in the French Quarter with a shotgun across his knees.

    He named his shotgun "Kindness."

    According to Montgomery, if anyone messed with him or his loved ones, he would "kill them with kindness."
  14. Thomas Linton

    Thomas Linton

    Jun 16, 2003
    We need Marty in the Cantina. :thumbup:
  15. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    He's already an honorary member, he just doesn't know it.

  16. Esav Benyamin

    Esav Benyamin MidniteSuperMod

    Apr 6, 2000
    They need more guys like Marty in New Orleans. Too bad it comes to that, but the places that don't have looting, don't have it because of the Martys, not because of the police.
  17. shane justice

    shane justice

    May 12, 2003
    I was amazed to see the reports of people starving after less than 24 hours?

    There was not one network or report that was not skewed...to present a political view.And what kills me is that people listen to that BS!

    It is a tragedy that everybody involved was quick to blame without handling their own responsibilities.

    One of the pics that killed me...was an areial shot of hundreds of school busses underwater? WTF!?! Mayor Dingle Balls shoulda had them bad boys loaded and moving on Monday...filled with folks who had no transportation. ARSEHOLE shoulda comandeered them...and pulled a John Wayne and got his people rolling! He coulda saved the fleet of busses...and a lot of the people HE left to DIE! AND he shoulda been on the phone with other mayors finding shelter for them on the busses....As far as I am concerned he should be held up as a resposible party....GROSS NEGLIGENCE!

    The MAYOR of NO...is a laugh. No guts...no brains...reacting on a purely emotional basis....while his Police are looting the Walmart...he's blaming the governemnt for not taking care of business?

    So if I remember right...and going by posts here...Hurricane on Tuesday...evacuting by bus on Wednesday? 24 hour response time is not fast enough? Or was it that everybody was not simply whisked away immediately afterwards by huge whirly birds able to handle a thousand people at a go?

    I would guess...one of the first things FEMA had to do was Damage Assesssment...and then figure how to work the plan...and what assets they had to work with...what roads would handle traffic...Big Damn job! Especially considering there were still folks trying to outrun this bitch...still on the roads...I think them folks at FEMA had the bear by the tail...no matter what they did it would have been wrong....

    Posted on the Homeland Security Site...recommendations for 3 days of food and water...1 gallon of water per day...per person...HELLO!

    They also post a link to the FEMA/RedCross Food and Water recommendations...with information on keeping and finding water in your own home....they offer suggestions on distilling water....and all knids of stuff...

    The point being is....time for folks to QUIT being victims of their circumstances...and DEAL!

    For those who wanted to handle their business...the information is there...provided for anybody.

    If you choose not to help yourself...then don't expect a lot of sympathy form those who do. Granted...there are a lot of folks who just didn't have the ability to do it....but there were a hell of a bunch of able bodies walking around who did....

    This is an awful thing...but this is life.

    And I will be damned if I will listen to a lot of weak minded arseholes who want to whine about what somebody else didn't do fast enough.

    Everybody reading this knows...in a disaster...be ready to stand fast for 72 hours...bare ass minimum....without any help from anybody.PERIOD.

    And I will bet my Power Hammer that a number of folks who are reading this are ready for a damned sight more than that....

    Ok...so I was out of bed early...and I was sad and mad...

    I rambled for a good bit....

    It is time we stopped whining and got on with what needs doing....LEARN the F****ing lesson and get on with it!

    This is your wake up call America!

    Live free or die!

  18. ibear


    Apr 15, 2002
  19. Dave Rishar

    Dave Rishar

    Oct 25, 2004
    This is one of the joys of modern society, of course: don't worry, be happy. The government will handle everything for you. If it doesn't, it's not your fault.

    I will be surprised if any lessons are learned from this by the majority. It's a shame.

    On a positive note, I read an article yesterday about people banding together, organizing, and taking care of business. It appears that there are some folks who are more concerned with surviving than crying for help and wondering who's going to bail them out. I applaud them.
  20. arty


    Oct 18, 2003
    The ideology that says that the federal government should do nothing in emergencies leads to lots of old ladies dying in nursing homes.

    The sick, the old and children can't make proper preparations and help themselves. The ill in hospitals can't walk out and leave their ventilators....machines that do not work in this kind of tragic event.

    If there is a giagantic terrorist attack, who is to help out? Local govenments can't do it, since too much of the guard is overseas. We obviously need our guard at home, protecting our borders and protecting our cities. We need a bigger army if we want to fight wars effectively and protect our country at the same time.

    It is the responsibility of the federal government to handle major crises that can not be responded to by individuals or local governments. The crisis in NO tells us that, if nothing else does.

    What will happen if a dirty bomb is set off, or there is a biological attack in a major metropolitan area? Don't we want FEMA to help with that and cope effectively? Isn't that what they are there for?

    Of course, there are lots of individuals who can take care of themselves but don't. Of course there are thugs who take advantage of chaos. It is the job of government to maintain order and keep the thugs in line. If our Federal Gov't tells us that they can't do anything, that they didn't know, that they did the best that they could ---- and it wasn't good enough....
    Heads should roll, and incompetents should be fired - not praised. The head of FEMA couldn't run horse shows and was fired for incompetence, so he was hired to head FEMA. He sure can't do his job. On Thurs., he said everything was great in NO, while old ladies were dying in nursing homes.

    We should not be talking political ideology while all of these people are suffering. I am going to exit from the listserv right now and make a contribution to the Red Cross - right now! NOT in 4 days.

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