Kizer Cutlery - experiences?

[evilgreg]

I think I've got about 20 Kizers now and the only consistent flaw I can find with them is weak detents. I have 3 or 4 knives that just won't flip because the detent is too weak. Some of them even shake out making them a little unsafe to carry. Someday I may try to tinker with them to make the detents tighter but I just haven't had time to mess with them.

Other than that one factor, I really like my Kizers. My problem is I've been carrying knives that are a little nicer and a lot more expensive and it's hard to go back to a "humble" Kizer . I guess it really is true that you can't keep a boy on the farm once he's been to Paris.

My favorite Kizer (labeled Ki423 on mine, also known as Ki4423, I think) had a weak detent when I got it. When I finally got around to taking it apart, I bent a little more tension into the lock bar and now it's as snappy as the best of my flippers.

Outside of that one, all the flippers I've purchased had reasonably stiff detents.

 

[AF]

My first Kizer was the Rogue. It's a lower-end ti framelock but nothing wrong with it other than an obtuse flat saber grind.
Next was the Kizer Gemini. It's tied for the best flipper in my collection. It's unsurpassed. I have no idea why so many pop up on the exchange. What an awesome EDC with the contoured ti scales.
Unfortunately my third Kizer was a complete dud and has turned me away from the brand. I got the SLT model. It was the most expensive of my stable of Kizers and the biggest letdown. The lockbar was very lightly sprung. The detent was weak. It flipped poorly. It also has an obtuse saber flat grind. The biggest issue was the lock rock. The lock was not properly engaging and I don't think it was caused by the lack of lockbar tension. I may have gotten a dud but it will be a long time before I give Kizer another chance.

 

[Goldenlight]

I recently acquired a Kizer KIV4423A2 Sovereign Linerlock Folding Knife 3.5" Blade 4.5" Closed Black/Blue G10 scales. It is the one with the reverse tanto blade, and the scalloped scales, which give the very nice looking blue and black pattern on the scales. And the scales have a nice 3D texture that makes for a nice grip. The blade came with the usual mediocre edge, but the relatively soft, second rate VG-10 steel is fairly easy to sharpen to a very good edge. That's the good.

The bad. The edges of the G10 scales on the finger grooved side had REALLY sharp edges. I mean REALLY SHARP EDGES. I nearly got a blister while sharpening the knife, before I realized just how poorly finished that edge, on both scales, was. Fortunately. the sharp edged scales are made of G10. You know: plastic. I used a fine half round diamond file to smooth down the sharp edges. It didn't take very long, and now it's very comfortable. But it never should have left the factory like this. It's like somebody skipped a step in the manufacturing process of those really nice looking blue and black scales.

The ugly. The flipping action. There isn't any. The blade has SO MUCH DRAG, the ONLY WAY to get it open is with a hugely over exaggerated 'flip' using not just your wrist, but your forearm too. There is almost no detent at all when you close the blade. BECAUSE OF THIS, you can't build up ANY pressure on the flipper tab. Push on the flipper tab and the blade just starts to open immediately. THEN you have use the LARGE, OVER EXAGGERATED wrist AND arm snap, to get that REALLY stubborn blade to lock open.

I tried loosening the tension on the pivot pin, not a lot, but enough, which IN THEORY, SHOULD allow the blade to move with less friction. BUT NOOOOO! It DOESN'T. Well, it DOES if there is a millimeter of open space on each side of the blade. You STILL have to use a LOT of wrist flip to get the blade to make an appearance. I haven't taken the scales off and the pivot out, to see if perhaps whatever bearing surface this knife is SUPPOSED TO HAVE might have been left out of the knife. But then, I don't KNOW what it's supposed to look like in there. Hardened bronze bearing? Spring loaded split washers? Who knows.

What I DO KNOW, is that calling this knife a 'flipper' is a travesty. If I'm sitting in the driver's seat of my car, the ONLY WAY to open this knife with one hand is to use the space in front of my passenger, to get a HARD and LONG enough manual 'flip' on this knife, to coax the blade out of hiding.

Because of this, as nice as the knife LOOKS, it's damn near worthless to me as a working knife.

Just another example of why it is SUCH A BAD IDEA TO BUY 'PRECISION' THINGS MADE IN CHINA. I think the guy who does QC has a half blind seeing eye dog. And that is being WAY more polite than the extremely poor quality, fit, and finish of this knife calls for. It's TYPICAL CHINESE JUNK, plain and simple. I rolled the Kizer dice, and I LOST. I got a knife that NEVER should have left the factory.

THIS is EXACTLY why I prefer to buy American made products.

I won't be buying any more Kizer knives. My friends will NEVER buy a Kizer knife. Strangers I meet at the bus stop will never buy a Kizer knife.

And YES, I lubricated the pivot area. It didn't make a rat's hind end worth of difference. OF COURSE.

 

[sharp_edge]

Loosing the pivot generally does not help; bending the lockbar inward may.

 

[Goldenlight]

Loosing the pivot generally does not help; bending the lockbar inward may.

Please explain.

Bending the lock bar INWARD would INCREASE the pressure of the lock bar on the blade. This make no sense whatsoever, to me.

 

[evilgreg]

Please explain.

Bending the lock bar INWARD would INCREASE the pressure of the lock bar on the blade. This make no sense whatsoever, to me.

Increasing lock bar tension by bending the lock bar in slightly results in a stronger detent, allowing for better flipping action. My Ki423 (this is what it says on the blade, but it's also known as the ki4423) arrived with a weak detent and poor flipping action if you weren't careful. After taking it apart and increasing the bend in the lock bar slightly it has flipped like a rocket ever since. It snaps open with authority now, to the point that it annoys my wife when I idly play with it.

This is the knife in question, incidentally, and it's one of my favorite and most-used knives:

 

[Goldenlight]

Increasing lock bar tension by bending the lock bar in slightly results in a stronger detent, allowing for better flipping action. My Ki423 (this is what it says on the blade, but it's also known as the ki4423) arrived with a weak detent and poor flipping action if you weren't careful. After taking it apart and increasing the bend in the lock bar slightly it has flipped like a rocket ever since. It snaps open with authority now, to the point that it annoys my wife when I idly play with it.

Thank you very much for the explanation. That does make good sense. MY POS Kizer has virtually no detent at all when I close it. It's just BARELY there. On opening fully, they is absolutely NO detent. Just NOTHING.

 

[AF]

Just another example of why it is SUCH A BAD IDEA TO BUY 'PRECISION' THINGS MADE IN CHINA.

I can sympathize with your experience because the Kizer SLT I got was terrible as well. I might have disassembled and increased the lockbar tension if that had been the only problem. I returned it to the dealer.

However, you made a pretty big generalization and if you turn away from all China-made knives you're missing out my biggest surprise of 2016. Reate. No they aren't a new company but they were new to me this year. Get yourself a Reate Hills or a Horizon C or the D9Plus currently on sale at Knifecenter and then see how you feel about the quality of Chinese knives.

 

[Hackenslash]

However, you made a pretty big generalization and if you turn away from all China-made knives you're missing out my biggest surprise of 2016. Reate. No they aren't a new company but they were new to me this year. Get yourself a Reate Hills or a Horizon C or the D9Plus currently on sale at Knifecenter and then see how you feel about the quality of Chinese knives.

@Goldenlight...
Yeah, gotta agree about the problem with generalizing...not just about Point of Origin about a knife, but about all Kizers in general because of a bad experience with one. I've been one of the biggest fans of Kizer around here, but I'm also the first to admit they have a fairly prevalent problem with weak detents. I have the same knife that evilgreg pictured above and mine is a decent flipper. Now, you do have a variant. The G10 scales indicate you have a Vanguard series, which is the budget line at Kizer. You'll be dealing with a liner lock vs. a frame lock, so I'm not sure how bending the liner will work...

Increasing lock bar tension (by bending) is usually effective at increasing detent. In your case, you may need to enlarge the detent hole slightly so the ball seats a little deeper. It all really depends on the root cause of the weak detent.

Try to tinker with it. Good luck, I know exactly the type of flipping problem you're describing. I've had a few Kizers that acted the exact same way. One I was able to fix...the others I was too lazy. Kizer is worth taking a second look at. They definitely hit more than they miss.

Don't give up on Chinese knives either. You'll miss a lot of goodness from companies like Reate, Rike WE and Stedemon. Remember that old Jackson 5 song, "One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch girl..."?

 

[Goldenlight]

There is just WAY too much drag on the blade for that to help. Unfortunately

I cleaned and lubricated Kizer's junk brass washers. They BOTH have CORROSION on them. I guess a tenth of a cent for a drop or two of oil, ANY OIL, was just too much money for Kizer to spend in the manufacture of this junk knife. So the cheap brass washers corroded, and no amount of oil or grease will make these crap corroded 'bearings' actually make the knife EASY or SMOOTH to open. Way to go, Kizer. You're really SAVING MONEY NOW/

This knife was an out of specification POS JUNK knife when it left the factory, and due to extremely low quality components, and the complete and total lack of ANYTHING resembling quality control, there is NOTHING I can do to make this POS into an actual FUNCTIONING knife.

This knife is nothing but another piece of Chinese JUNK, that China turns out by the thousands of metric tons per day. Or hour. Who knows.

Obviously when a KIZER knife like this one gets to the end of the assembly line, there is NOBODY inspecting them. Or they are just told to box them up for shipment to the USA, no matter how poorly made they are.

 

[evilgreg]

There is just WAY too much drag on the blade for that to help. Unfortunately

I cleaned and lubricated Kizer's junk brass washers. They BOTH have CORROSION on them. I guess a tenth of a cent for a drop or two of oil, ANY OIL, was just too much money for Kizer to spend in the manufacture of this junk knife. So the cheap brass washers corroded, and no amount of oil or grease will make these crap corroded 'bearings' actually make the knife EASY or SMOOTH to open. Way to go, Kizer. You're really SAVING MONEY NOW/

This knife was an out of specification POS JUNK knife when it left the factory, and due to extremely low quality components, and the complete and total lack of ANYTHING resembling quality control, there is NOTHING I can do to make this POS into an actual FUNCTIONING knife.

This knife is nothing but another piece of Chinese JUNK, that China turns out by the thousands of metric tons per day. Or hour. Who knows.

Obviously when a KIZER knife like this one gets to the end of the assembly line, there is NOBODY inspecting them. Or they are just told to box them up for shipment to the USA, no matter how poorly made they are.

My friend bought a Corvette that had major engine problems on delivery (as in, literally in the parking lot of the dealership). This does not mean that all Corvettes are broken, just that that one was.

I've bought lots of Kizer knives and they've all been great. The fact that you got a lemon seems to have you railing against the company altogether. Why don't you take this up with Kizer instead of trying to convince everyone they're a terrible company that makes terrible knives? At this point everyone and their brother has tried the Gemini, and I'm guessing you'll have a hard time convincing any of those folks that Kizer can't make a quality knife.

 

[brancron]

My friend bought a Corvette that had major engine problems on delivery (as in, literally in the parking lot of the dealership). This does not mean that all Corvettes are broken, just that that one was.

I've bought lots of Kizer knives and they've all been great. The fact that you got a lemon seems to have you railing against the company altogether. Why don't you take this up with Kizer instead of trying to convince everyone they're a terrible company that makes terrible knives? At this point everyone and their brother has tried the Gemini, and I'm guessing you'll have a hard time convincing any of those folks that Kizer can't make a quality knife.

Greg, don't you understand? Kizer only makes POS JUNK knives! Every knife of theirs I've ever owned has been a POS JUNK knife:

 

[sharp_edge]

I am more careful with purchasing foreign made knives than USA made, solely because of convenience/availability of warranty work. Because of this reason alone, I feel most Kizer, Reate, and WE knives are a bit over priced. Now of course that is just a personal opinion. The only Reate I have (Horizon D CF) is absolutely of top notch quality, though.

 

[evilgreg]

Greg, don't you understand? Kizer only makes POS JUNK knives! Every knife of theirs I've ever owned has been a POS JUNK knife:

Yessir, Brian, those look terrible. I hate all of mine so much I think I'm going to order another one, probably the Rattler . . .

In other news, I bought another Sebenza. Time will tell if I'll manage to grow as fond of it as one of my favorite Kizers, though.

 

[Daniel Dorn]

My first Kizer is a Dorado. Handled one on a passaround here on the forums. Liked it so much I had to find one to purchase. The 3-D contouring, overall fit and finish, and quality of materials are top notch. 15 years ago, a knife like that would have cost about $500 from a custom maker, which would translate to about $750 in today's dollars.

Technology is a wonderful thing.

 

[sechip]

I've owned 2, a ki401b and a Gemini and they both sucked, the first was gritty and did not flip for sh#t and the Jasmine had almost no detent.

I will not get another from them but have no problem with other chinese companies like Reate and Maxace, they both make wonderful flippers.

 

[abbazaba]

My experience with Kizer has been great, and more consistent than some USA companies like Benchmade. I have 6 now and they are all amazing, not just for the money, but compared to anything. The ones with bearings (Vangaurd series included) are smoother than some of my ZTs, and the fit and finish (including all the contoured Ti goodness) is better than most of my USA made production knives. Not once have I had to take them apart to polish and massage some good action out of them. Even the flipper I have on bronze washers flips better than some other knives I have on bearings out of the box. My only nit pick with them as been the clip, but their recent machined clips have fixed that issue at least for all of my Laconico Ti knives. Can't wait to get my hands on the new Guru!

 

[flash900]

I've owned 2, a ki401b and a Jasmine and they both sucked, the first was gritty and did not flip for sh#t and the Jasmine had almost no detent.

I will not get another from them but have no problem with other chinese companies like Reate and Maxace, they both make wonderful flippers.

Ray Laconico makes a custom knife called the Jasmine.

Kizer makes a highly-regarded collab with Laconico called the Gemini.

I own a Laconico custom plus three of the Kizer Gemini -- two in all Ti and one G-10 version. They are all perfect. The only Kizer I enjoy even more than the Geminis is the new Mini Intrepid with a 3-inch M390 blade.

 

[wensynch]

Kizer Shadow Sway i4430:

This one was recently on sale (still is; oh nvm out of stock) on BHQ for less than a $100 which is fantastic offer. Fantastic. A lot of knife for that money.

Washers instead of bearings is the big distinguishing factor but it's not a flipper. Opens nicely. The design and shape is awesome. This'll knife will eat a lot of ZTs for lunch.

Worth it. Recommend.

 

[sechip]

Ray Laconico makes a custom knife called the Jasmine.

Kizer makes a highly-regarded collab with Laconico called the Gemini.

I own a Laconico custom plus three of the Kizer Gemini -- two in all Ti and one G-10 version. They are all perfect. The only Kizer I enjoy even more than the Geminis is the new Mini Intrepid with a 3-inch M390 blade.

Thanks I fixed it, I've owned a few customs from Ray, Jasmine, slim EDC, and a Blast and all were fantastic, I still stand by my assertion about the Gemini I received though.