KME Advice

1. Is tape over the blade necessary to prevent scratches? 2. Is the 100-grit stone necessary?

  • Q1: Yes. Q2: Yes

  • Q1:Yes. Q2: No.

  • Q1:No. Q2: Yes.

  • Q1:No. Q2: No.

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Sharperthansticks

Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
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I'm moving over from the Worksarp System (Ken Onion + Blade Grinder) to a KME. I've used the Worksharp for years, and many times I get good results, but sometimes the blade makes contact with the roller and gets a "rash" -- or the edge of the scale may make contact with the moving belt, causing a rash on the scale (which is less common but happened at least once). Now that I have some expensive knives, there is less room for error. I'd like to sharpen my Olamic 247 at some point, and there's no way I'm doing it on a WorkSharp. Anyway, this thread is really about the KME; just wanted to explain a bit about why I'm changing systems.

So I bought the basic KME kit + stand. I'm also going to buy some glass blanks and some 8.5x11 lapping papers on Amazon and cut 1x4 pieces out of them. (The papers on Amazon seem to be the most economical, and I figure a spray adhesive should work to fix the paper to the glass.) I've watched some videos on youtube to learn from others' mistakes, and I think I have the basic idea, but I still have some questions for you KME people:
  1. Some people (Cedric & Ada and others) mention that the blade can get scratched. Some attribute this to diamond dust, and some attribute this to some sort of wobble in the stone. Do I need to tape over the non-cutting surface of my blade? I was hoping that by moving over to the KME that I wouldn't have to do this.
  2. The basic kit does not come with the the Beast (50-grit) or the 100-grit stone. Everyone says to get the Beast, but some people say you don't really need the 100-grit stone. I figure I'll crowd-source this question to you guys. Is the 100-grit stone necessary, or not?
 
Should not cause road rash on the blade if used properly. I don't have a KME but I do have a DMT Aligner I'm basing this off of and the KME is far more precise.

Get the 50grit, you can remove the scratches with a 150 or other coarse stone. The 50 grit will speed up the process of sharpening greatly when you have to reprofile. It wasn't uncommon to spend over and hour reprofiling with a DMT coarse. Than when I tried a electric worksharp it took a few minutes.
 
Don't apex with the 50 or 100. You only need one or the other to make re profiling shorter. The beast is very coarse though. This is why you shouldn't apex with it or the 100 (ie don't form a bur). I suspect the 100 is going to help minimize the coarse scratches from the beast. I've had little issues with just using the 140 for re profiling but takes a little longer. I only have the beast, not the 100. I think I wore it out tbo. I didn't really like it at all. Maybe the 100 would have been better than the 50 or better to blend those really coarse edges. If you apex with these grits, it will cause a poor apex and probably decrease edge retention and edge stability.

Scratches will happen. You will want to sharpen about 5 knives give or take that are cheap. This will wear the stones in so the scratches won't be so much on your nice knives. Tape will be idea to use though. Also don't go too low an angel will help.

Also use soapy water in a spray bottle. Spray the swarf off the blade. Cause wiping the swarf off can also scratch it.
 
if it’s a collectors item then tape the blade. Scratches are rare but possible. But, if it’s a collectors item then why are you sharpening it in the first place?

I agree that you should have either the 50 or the 100 but you don’t need both.

It would be faster to reprofile on your worksharp and then apex and polish on the KME. Use the best capability of each tool.
 
I have found the Beast is unnecessary, the 100 grit will reprofile just fine.
If you pay attention, you shouldn’t scratch the blade. There is a learning curve, so start out on a couple of inexpensive blades. I’ve scratched blades by dragging the stone and not lifting it off the blade. Out of habit, I tape the area of the blade that goes in the clamp. IMO, it holds the blade better in the clamp. I’d say, yes tape the blade, a little more prep time beats a scratched blade every time. Once you gain confidence/time using the KME, it will become apparent that you don’t need to tape the whole blade.
 
Neither are necessary. Scratches to the blade are overwhelmingly caused by the edges of the stone base. Slip off, bounce on, a little twist to one side, etc. The greatest risk for this is when you're feeling confident and trucking along at a fast pace and...stone slips off and to make it worse, you mash it back again on your already started return stroke. It can also creep up if you're re-profiling and it is taking a long time and you're getting flustered and fatigued. I don't buy the diamond dust notion or those things. If you do things right you won't scratch anything. That said, if I was sharpening a $500+ knife, I'd tape the blade because I'd know it can happen and has happened to me.

Also, I'm not sure that blade geometry is well suited to clamp systems. Just looking at a picture but that top swedge might not leave a lot for the clamp to grip. Might be alright but just something I noticed. I know I wouldn't be running a knife of that value through a Worksharp either though...

I don't have a 50 grit and do just fine and have steels such as ZDP189 and S90V. The 50 and 100 are for damaged edges and re-profiling. I personally think "re-profiling" gets tossed around a little more often than it should. If you're content, more or less, with the factory bevel angles, then re-profiling isn't really an issue for you anyway. And I suspect that encompasses most people. I think a lot of people just hear so much talk about re-profiling they think this just have to do it or they're missing out. That's not always the case to say the least. Yeah there's some modicum of re-profiling when you first sharpen on whatever setup, meaning altering from the factory grind to your grind but that's no biggy and nothing the 140 won't handle. I do think the 100 is nice to have but I wouldn't call it necessary.

I don't think the lapping films are necessary either and have never bought them.

I do think the pen jaws, a strop and emulsion of your choosing, a roll of hockey (or similar) tape, and swapping out the nobs for bigger ones are much higher on the list.
 
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Eli Chaps said:
I don't think the lapping films are necessary either and have never bought them.

I do think the pen jaws, a strop and emulsion of your choosing, a roll of hockey (or similar) tape, and swapping out the nobs for bigger ones are much higher on the list.
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Thanks for your input. From looking at the various videos out there (Shabazz, Bird Shot IV, and possibly Cedric (though I'm not sure on this last one)), it seems that people are having success with the lapping films, and since I was able to buy big sheets a reasonable cost, I'll try them. Could always switch to something else later.

As for taping the blade, I bought some Gorilla tape from Home Depot. Looks a lot tougher than masking tape, so it should do the trick. Might even be overkill, but I'm really tired of my knives getting scratched, already, so I'm OK with a bit of overkill.

I haven't heard anything about pen jaws or larger knobs, though, so I'm in the dark on these two.
 
CasePeanut said:
if it’s a collectors item then tape the blade. Scratches are rare but possible. But, if it’s a collectors item then why are you sharpening it in the first place?

I agree that you should have either the 50 or the 100 but you don’t need both.

It would be faster to reprofile on your worksharp and then apex and polish on the KME. Use the best capability of each tool.
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In my life, I really don't want any collectors' blades if the definition of a collectors' blade is that you don't use it. I really want to be able to carry and use -- even if it's just really light, gentlemanly carry use -- every knife of mine. I probably use some of my knives too hard, based on their price point (Should I be using that Olamic 247 to cut cardboard, or should I really just use it to cut up an occasional piece of fruit, so it remains (close to) pristine?), but I wouldn't want them to get absolutely no use. And because I want everything to be functional, everything should be sharp, which means that everything is going to get sharpened (eventually).
 
Sharperthansticks said:
Thanks for your input. From looking at the various videos out there (Shabazz, Bird Shot IV, and possibly Cedric (though I'm not sure on this last one)), it seems that people are having success with the lapping films, and since I was able to buy big sheets a reasonable cost, I'll try them. Could always switch to something else later.

As for taping the blade, I bought some Gorilla tape from Home Depot. Looks a lot tougher than masking tape, so it should do the trick. Might even be overkill, but I'm really tired of my knives getting scratched, already, so I'm OK with a bit of overkill.

I haven't heard anything about pen jaws or larger knobs, though, so I'm in the dark on these two.
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On YouTube, search for Dean O and KME. He was doing excellent KME videos some time ago. He quit posting for some reason but his library is still out there. He has a video on the thread sizes for the various knobs. I don't remember them any more but I bought a new larger bulb-type knob for the stone carrier and a larger knurled knob for the clamp screw.

The pen jaws are smaller jaws that help with thinner knives. Might not be something you need but I find them helpful for even pairing knives.
 
Sharperthansticks said:
In my life, I really don't want any collectors' blades if the definition of a collectors' blade is that you don't use it. I really want to be able to carry and use -- even if it's just really light, gentlemanly carry use -- every knife of mine. I probably use some of my knives too hard, based on their price point (Should I be using that Olamic 247 to cut cardboard, or should I really just use it to cut up an occasional piece of fruit, so it remains (close to) pristine?), but I wouldn't want them to get absolutely no use. And because I want everything to be functional, everything should be sharp, which means that everything is going to get sharpened (eventually).
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Sounds good. in that case, keep it sharp! This thread inspired me to pull out the KME. I'd been using bench stones and the Worksharp recently. It was fun to use the KME and put a shaving sharp edge on some kitchen knives.
 
Eli Chaps said:
On YouTube, search for Dean O and KME. He was doing excellent KME videos some time ago. He quit posting for some reason but his library is still out there. He has a video on the thread sizes for the various knobs. I don't remember them any more but I bought a new larger bulb-type knob for the stone carrier and a larger knurled knob for the clamp screw.

The pen jaws are smaller jaws that help with thinner knives. Might not be something you need but I find them helpful for even pairing knives.
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Thanks. I'll look for that video.
 
The biggest cause of the scratches is people going past the edge bevel and dragging the stone onto the blade. With diamonds, it takes once to do a lot of scratching.

Using a drill stop on rod to keep it from going past the edge is the fix. Tape will also help from scratching.

Personally, I don’t like the 50 or the 100. They both leave too deep of scratching that you will have to work to remove on higher grits. I don’t like their “feel” either. They are really rough and the feedback is like dragging a file across your teeth!
 
Daniel said:
The biggest cause of the scratches is people going past the edge bevel and dragging the stone onto the blade. With diamonds, it takes once to do a lot of scratching.

Using a drill stop on rod to keep it from going past the edge is the fix. Tape will also help from scratching.

Personally, I don’t like the 50 or the 100. They both leave too deep of scratching that you will have to work to remove on higher grits. I don’t like their “feel” either. They are really rough and the feedback is like dragging a file across your teeth!
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Thanks.

Do you know of any tutorials that show how to install this kind of stop? (This thread is the first I'm hearing of this and some other concepts.)

EDIT: This sounds like a perfect fix for the problem that people describe, and the final step needed to idiot-proof the system. I found the item on KME's website. Thanks again for the advice.
 
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They have several videos showing the stop being used.

As far as good videos, I like Matt Helms’ videos. I think that he goes by KnifeKrazy. He is the only person that I have subscribed on YouTube. I like his because he is no BS and not annoying!
 
I’ll chime in.
I also have a WSKO and moved to KME for similar reasons.
I’d say my KME skill is at the intermediate level. I bought the deluxe kit for starters.
I find the 50 grit is a little too rough for my liking. I wind up spending a lot of time trying to smooth out the scratches it leaves behind. I would rather reprofile with the 100 and go a bit slower.

What Mo2 Mo2 says about not apexing until 140 is interesting. I’m going to try it next time.

I wound up buying some lapping films and am very happy I did so. I have the 9, 6, and 3 micron films. That’s mirror enough for my personal needs.
 
I have never used tape on my blades but it cant hurt. If it's scratching your thinking about I just make sure that the jaws are clean first. If it's slippage your trying to prevent just make sure you set the blade in a good position and pinch the jaws hard with one hand and tighten with the other, this will set the jaws at the proper angle and conform to the spine shape. A 100 grit stone is a must but only to re profile the worst blades. I use the 100 for profiling but only if needed, 140 works most of the time. If you get a 100 grit you will want to break it in an some kitchen knives first to knock down any uneven grit or it could leave small scratches that you wont get out until the next sharpening. Not a big deal unless you going for a mirror Finnish and on that topic you should pick up the lapping film kit to make that edge POP. Money well spent if you ask me. Have fun and again practice on those old kitchen knives first to hone you technique and break in those stones.
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