KME stone progression

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crn3371

Joined
Nov 1, 2019
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I’m going to retire my Lansky and upgrade to the KME system as I want more stability, and the ability to sharpen larger knives (kitchen). I’ll be going with the 4 diamond stone set. My question is where to go after the 1500 grit diamond? I’ve scoured the forums and YouTube and frankly my head is spinning. I’m not after Instagram mirror blades, just adequately sharp. From what I’ve gathered the 1500 diamond is probably enough for EDC blades but might not be enough for kitchen knives. To that end I’m looking at the lapping films. Would the 9 micron and 6 micron films be enough for a reasonably polished blade? Or should I just start with the diamond set until I get the hang of things?
 
I’d say you already nailed it. Start with what you get and see if you’re happy on results. Since you say you’ve already been reading in the forums I assume you know not to start out with your good knives when you get the new system. Start with an inexpensive knives and practice till you’re comfortable. Only then can you start to work on better quality Knives. As far as sharpness goes 1500 grit diamond will be more than adequate for kitchen knives. You may want to invest in two straps one loaded with green compound and one bare leather. That will give you an edge that’s more than good enough for kitchen use anything beyond that is polishing for looks. One word of caution though is that the KME system uses 4 inch stones which may not be to your liking for longer kitchen knives.
 
crn3371 said:
From what I’ve gathered the 1500 diamond is probably enough for EDC blades but might not be enough for kitchen knives.
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sickpuppy1 said:
As far as sharpness goes 1500 grit diamond will be more than adequate for kitchen knives. You may want to invest in two straps one loaded with green compound and one bare leather. That will give you an edge that’s more than good enough for kitchen use
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sickpuppy1 said:
you know not to start out with your good knives when you get the new system. Start with an inexpensive knives and practice till you’re comfortable. Only then can you start to work on better quality Knives.
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Heed what sickpuppy1: says, excellent advise, 1500 grit will be sharp enough for anything you need. Let us know how you go. :)
 
Regarding 8”-10” kitchen knives and the KME. I’ve watched the videos and know it’s doable, but is it practical? I’m trying not to go down the proverbial rabbit hole when it comes to budget, hence the KME. The only other system I’m considering is the Hapstone R2, but realistically twice the price of a comparably spec’d KME.
 
Yeah, I know it’s doable with one clamp but I would worry about blade flex on those thin blades. And if you could do it in two stages, ok . I have a Hapstone M2 and haven’t tried our 8” chefs knife yet. I hit it up on a strop once a week or so to maintain it so that I don’t have to, lol
 
The 4 stones that come with kit are enough in my opinion. But if you wanted to get more accessories, I would get the 50 grit Beast which has come in handy a few times for reprofiling or chipped edges. You could also get a kangaroo strop and the 4 micron CBN. I think it works well following the 1500 stone.
 
crn3371 said:
Regarding 8”-10” kitchen knives and the KME. I’ve watched the videos and know it’s doable, but is it practical? I’m trying not to go down the proverbial rabbit hole when it comes to budget, hence the KME. The only other system I’m considering is the Hapstone R2, but realistically twice the price of a comparably spec’d KME.
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Absolutely worth going with a multiple clamp system like the Hapstone R2. You won't be sorry. The KME is eventually going to disappoint you and you'll want something better.

I have a KME and a Hapstone R2, and I have to admit that the Hapstone R2 blows the KME out of the water. It is a much, much better system and worth the small difference in price, in my opinion.

Have a look at the options on Gritomatic, they are the go-to place for guided systems and stones.

The Hapstone R2 Lite is already a much better system than a KME, and it's only slightly more expensive.(But you get something that is even better than the more expensive KME with base,etc.) And you get 2 clamps in stead of only a single clamp in the KME.

Link for the R2 lite, FYI:
www.gritomatic.com

Hapstone R2 Lite Knife Sharpener

Hapstone R2 Knife Sharpener is the new knife sharpener from Hapstone, supplier of successful Hapstone R1. Hapstone R2 on par with Hapstone V8 and Hapstone M3 is part of the Hapstone Modular Platform, innovative technology to let customers configure and upgrade the sharpening system with no...
www.gritomatic.com www.gritomatic.com

The Hapstone R2 Standard is the next step up, but you'll likely get everything you need out of the R2 Lite option.

Honestly, if you're going to upgrade from your Lansky (single clamp system) to a KME (yet another single clamp system), then I would stick with Lansky because you won't get that much of a significant upgrade. I would go for a multiple clamp system if I were you.

As a bonus, you'd also be able to use any stone around 6 inches or much shorter on the Hapstone. This opens up a whole new world of options in future for you. With the KME, you'll be stuck with only 4" KME format stones.
 
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I’ve pretty much got myself convinced that the Hapstone system might better fit my needs. For budget reasons I’m leaning towards the V8 model. Being a newer model there isn’t a lot of info or videos available, but it looks like the magnets would be strong enough to act as de facto clamps, with plenty of support for larger knives.
 
crn3371 said:
I’ve pretty much got myself convinced that the Hapstone system might better fit my needs. For budget reasons I’m leaning towards the V8 model. Being a newer model there isn’t a lot of info or videos available, but it looks like the magnets would be strong enough to act as de facto clamps, with plenty of support for larger knives.
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The magnets on the V8 work very well, no doubt about that. The clamps are definitely nicer in my opinion, and it's really nice just flipping the knife over with the R2 rotating module, but the V8 magnets will work well if you so choose. I have a V8 module for my R2 base but I prefer my rotating clamp R2 module.

If you want to watch videos on how the magnets work, look for Hapstone M2 (it's an older version Hapstone) videos. It's the same magnets and exact same system that the new M3 & V8 uses. The V8 is just expandable, that's the only difference.

The nice thing is, it's upgradable. If you buy and use the V8 for a while and you want to try the rotating clamp R2 module, then you just buy the rotating module and some clamps from Gritomatic, and you just swap out the V8 base for the R2 rotating module in like 10 seconds.

If you go for the V8, just make sure you compensate for the grind angle of your knives (they lie flat on the V8 magnet table) when you measure your angles with your angle cube / phone app.

I would also buy some Gorilla crystal clear tape and stick a strip over the tops of the magnets for extra grip and protection to stop metal filings from sticking to the magnets when you sharpen. This makes for much easier cleaning after sharpening - you just wipe the metal and gunk off with a wet cloth.
 
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I went from a sharpmaker, to a hapstone v7 and now a hapstone r2 .... I'm happy with the r2
 
Oh, I forgot to mention. If you go for the V8, make sure to ask Gritomatic for the latest version with the vertical knife support. Some knives rock a little over the magnets due to their grind, and this small vertical support stabilises that movement. The gen1 V8 doesn't have the vertical knife support.
 
OP, how long have you been using your Lansky kit? I'm interested in what you think of a platform kit like the EdgePro or Hapstone build your own kit offering (this gets me excited for sure if their knife platform is chosen). Also have you considered freehand?
With Konstantin, Ron or Brian's help at Gritomatic or KME (as EdgePro I'm sure from BF reports I have read), a Hapstone or KME two year build erases cost considerations with budget over time ratios, and grows a kit along with your knowledge.
Don't be surprised if you end up trying to maintaining your freshly minted edges freehand with strops or fine hones, instead of clamping them.

777 Edge, Gearheads / hobbyists, new to sharpening TODAY have tons of clamp / platform kits available. The OP wants more
crn3371 said:
stability, and the ability to sharpen larger knives (kitchen)
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Fiddling with wrenches and multiple fasteners every time OP attaches a knife to his new kit is going to reduce the amount of utility. Certainly this seems to be the generally true, if reports here and elsewhere from long time sharpeners indicates, set up procedures cause us to look for simpler quicker ways to maintain our edges once we have created one to our liking.

As Rvival29 stated, details please-
Pete at Ada Cedric just published a follow up long term review of his KME after sharpening, um about a thousand knives, he has not been disappointed. He answered the only question I had as a happy KME owner, who has other sharpening tools as well, "how often do you need to replace the KME diamonds?" Not often enough for home users to concern themselves, if the stones are not abused.
777 Edge said:
Absolutely worth going with a multiple clamp system like the Hapstone R2. You won't be sorry. The KME is eventually going to disappoint you and you'll want something better.
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I also had another question users that prefer the 2 clamp system of the Hapstone.

For the KME, I mark a straight line from the heel to the tip of the knife. I then make sure that line on the blade and the edge of the jaw are parallel.

I then match up the mid point of the jaw and the midpoint of the line one the blade.

All of this ensures that the stone is hitting the edge as evenly as possible from different angles.

So for the Hapstone and it’s double jaws, how do you make sure the blade is centered and parallel with the double jaws?
 
Revival29 said:
I also had another question users that prefer the 2 clamp system of the Hapstone.

For the KME, I mark a straight line from the heel to the tip of the knife. I then make sure that line on the blade and the edge of the jaw are parallel.

I then match up the mid point of the jaw and the midpoint of the line one the blade.

All of this ensures that the stone is hitting the edge as evenly as possible from different angles.

So for the Hapstone and it’s double jaws, how do you make sure the blade is centered and parallel with the double jaws?
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The same way as with a KME. You still align the heel and toe to be in a straight line as possible and as parallel as possible with the bar that holds the clamps, but use 2 clamps (or more for a very long blade) in stead of 1 clamp.

With a KME, Wicked Edge, Lansky, or any other single clamp point system you have a lot of flex with long, thin blades. With a 2 or more clamp bar system, you can support longer blades much better. You also have the option of various different types of clamps (depending on the blade grind) with multi-clamp systems. If you only have 1 set of clamps (and don't want to upgrade to other clamp types) and run into clamping problems (like a FFG spyderco grind for example), then you easily solve the problem with 1 clamp on the flat ricasso area (to stop any possible rotation), and the second clamp closer to the blade tip (to stop any flex).

If you only sharpen short blades, then you'll always be happy-ish with a single clamp system. (Depending of course on the blade grind issues with some single clamp systems where die-hards and big fans tend to try solve some single clamp blade grind issues with wedges, pieces of leather or other fixes.) For long blades, you either have to use a multiple clamp system, or a wide base platform, or free-hand sharpen (still one of my favorite and very rewarding ways after 35+ years of sharpening btw, but of course it takes much more practise to get really good at. More than your average 21st century knife owner has time or patience to learn to do).
 
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Appreciate the info. I have another question (sorry OP, not trying to derail but figure this information would be useful to you as well)…I watched multiple Hapstone videos last night and everyone kept talking about the flex of the clamps. Seems like an issue that they tried addressing with the updated models but it seems like it’s still there.

So the question is….How bad is the flex and has this been and issue for you?
 
Revival29 said:
Appreciate the info. I have another question (sorry OP, not trying to derail but figure this information would be useful to you as well)…I watched multiple Hapstone videos last night and everyone kept talking about the flex of the clamps. Seems like an issue that they tried addressing with the updated models but it seems like it’s still there.

So the question is….How bad is the flex and has this been and issue for you?
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Yes, there is a little bit of flex in the Hapstone clamps and any other knife clamp system for that matter - depending on how hard you push on the blade when sharpening. You can get any clamp to flex with enough force applied. Hapstone, TSPROF and KakBritva (as an example) have many clamp options, and the longer and thinner the clamps are, the more added benefit of lower sharpening angles with smaller blades. Some whole milled clamps have less flex than some spring steel plate clamps, but some spring steel clamps conform better with full flat grinds - just as an example.

The clamps will not flex much at all after your knife is securely clamped - something a lot of these "expert" reviewers on Youtube don't even mention or realize. Once the knife is properly clamped, it becomes more secure because the clamp top ad bottom basically make a triangular brace structure with the knife blade at its center - basic engineering "101". If the clamps are pushed down and flexed without a knife in them, then the flex will obviously be much more. It is a clamp after all and needs to flex to actually do what it's designed to do - close up and reach the knife blade to.... well.... Clamp! :)

Now, here comes the part that completely gets overlooked by most people for some reason.....it's actually VERY beneficial for the clamp to flex a little bit. It's a good thing that you would want to happen! The reason I mention this, is especially for new sharpeners or people with a "heavy hand" when sharpening. If you use too much force and there is no "give" or flex to compensate for your excessive sharpening force, then you will end up damaging your very fragile edge - especially towards the end of your sharpening when you do the refinement of your edge. If your clamp has some flex to it and you use more force than necessary, then the knife deflects downwards and you end up very slightly convexing the edge or grinding away metal just behind the edge - not necessary a bad thing and the clamp then saves your bacon when you have a heavy hand....the edge deflects away from the stone because of the flex of the clamp.

Of course, you don't want a clamp to flex so much that it is effectively useless at holding your blade in place like a "slinky" for sharpening, but this is not the case at all with any of these clamps.

Why guys don't "get" that is beyond comprehension. A little bit of flex in a clamp should actually be mentioned as a "positive" rather than a "negative". But I guess that's what happens if one likes making Youtube review videos, hearing oneself talk and thriving on thumbs-ups or "likes", more than actually learning as much as possible about your hobby or passion. Sorry, I digress... :p

It's kind akin to hand sharpening where you apex your edge nicely and progress through your stones, only to loose concentration at the very end and raising the blade spine too much...you can ruin your edge in one foul stroke. If you make a mistake at the end of your hand sharpening and actually lower the spine of your blade, lowering the sharpening angle for one or two stokes when you loose concentration, your edge will not be affected. That's basically what the flex in these clamps do for you.

Hope this helps clear it up?
 
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Since we’re on the subject of clamps, how are the clamps that come with the R2 lite? Would they be enough to clamp a 8”-9” ffg kitchen knife?
 
crn3371 said:
Since we’re on the subject of clamps, how are the clamps that come with the R2 lite? Would they be enough to clamp a 8”-9” ffg kitchen knife?
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Yes, they should work just fine. I've used my Lite clamps for some kitchen knives before and it worked perfectly fine. Most kitchen knives are thin and have wide blades, making the geometry work fine with the lite clamps.

On some other knives (like your Spyderco), you may want to use one clamp on the flat ricasso area (just in front of the pivot), and the other clamp about 2/3 towards the tip. Don't clamp both clamps of the FFG area of a knife like that, or you might get a little bit of a rocking effect. (Depending on the grind of the knife)

Try use both clamps as often as possible with any knife you can, and remember if it is a short blade, you can move both clamps together on one side of the clamp bar, it's not always necessary to have them in the center of the bar if you can't do it that way.
 
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