Ku Klux Klan Limited Edition by Case

The original KKK quickly became a harsh organization a product of an intensely painful period of US history.

It was initially formed as a social club - thats all. Shortly, after its formation they developed a practice of riding through the black communities while dressed in white sheets. At the beginning it was only as a joke (purely for harmless kicks) - THEY WERE PRETENDING TO BE THE GHOSTS OF DEAD CONFEDERATES - childish and stupid. The racism evolved quickly, violence escalated, and political and social pressure intensified. Perhaps there were many racists in the South; but the perponderance were certainly no where near as barbaric as this organization. By the 1880s the original KKK was ordered to disband by its own leadership. The realities of the KKK's activities were too much for many to stomach.

I certainly do in no way support the KKK, or Racism, in any way. But, irrespective of how we feel today, the KKK did exists, and racism does exist. This knife is an artifact of that subject. It is evidence that we can and have seen this uglyness within US history. Keep the knife for what it is, and use it to explain what should be.

As to the original question:

Unlike Nazism the KKK was usually a secret society. People did not usually openly buy and carry items with the KKK affiliation. Most of these knives are fantasy items produced long after the KKK and in no way associated with the KKK (or any of its incarnations).

Most probably your knife was produced as a collectable, and intended for sale to collectors rather than KKK members - it has no real association with the KKK and hence value would be based on general knife condition, manufacturer, and desirability.

I would expect to pay as much for this as I would pay for a similar knife bearing a General Motor's logo or any other organization.
 
Well, as previously mentioned, Shirley at Case (on the W.R. Case & Sons forum at KF) has explained how and why Case did not make nor condone the KKK etching and gift box. Collectible or not, I just view it as a defacement of a once-beautiful knife.

There is nothing wrong with pride in one's own color/ethnicity...it's important. One is not racist for being proud of one's self. What I have a problem with is those who try to belittle/dehumanize others to show their so-called "pride," and it is NOT only white groups that do so.

That said, as a non-white person myself, I know the KKK represent more than mere tasteless ethnic insulting jokes. It's one thing to be proud of one's self...but what the hell does calling others "mud people", "monkeys," and all other manner of garbage words have to do with self-pride??? Their spiel leads to further discrimination and...yes...violence towards non-whites. You can say the human trash that perpetuates such violence are not all KKK members, but the tirades of KKK and other such organizations is simply stoking the flames of hatred.

Having grown up dealing with racism and racists since I was a toddler, yes, of course I have a total intolerance for hate groups, and myself, don't give a damn about their rights. You get that way when you live your entire life in a country where every day of your life you are being judged to a greater or lesser degree by the race you were born into. I agree with Jeff Randall that we in America are all Americans, period...but many of us are perceived as 'less American' than the rest, unfortunately.
Jim
 
Owen,

Yes, the original author of the post was asking about the dollar amount of his knife.

However, this thread has since become more of a social/moral issue. People have expressed their offense for the knife and yet you almost ask them to deny how they feel. That KKK knife could be as offensive as, say, someone in minstrel black face make-up.

Maybe I misconstrued your comment -- if I did, I apologize -- but it almost sounded like you were questioning people's feelings.

I have a mixed feeling about this thread. Yes, we are a knife forum. Not a town meeting forum. However, I think it's important to discuss it since this "can-o-worms" has been opened.

As for the neo Archie Bunker attitude of "white men are victims of reverse discrimination." What a bunch of bull! That's the same argument that the KKK uses.

When is the last time you guys took a sociology course, or looked at statistics. Did you know that blacks are overrepresented in prison population? That means that blacks are more likely to go to prison for a given crime than a white person who commits the same crime. What about unemployment? How many minorities do you see sitting on the Board of Directors in a large corporation? What about the media? How many minorities do you see starring in their own T.V. series?

I'm not a "bleeding heart" or anything. In fact, I'd say I lean pretty far to the "right". However, I hate to see injustice, and I hate to see these perpetual inaccuracies being portrayed.

[This message has been edited by Full Tang Clan (edited 09-23-2000).]
 
I have to disagree with you full tang clan,there are plenty of minorities in high positions in all sorts of organizations.People should get those positions based on education,qualifications etc.,not based on the fact that one is a minority.Affirmitive action is nothing more than reverse discrimination to non-minorities and has no place in this a day and age.This leads to races resenting each other and does little to set an example for equal and fair treatment.The fact that more minorities are in prison you say,that whites are less likely to get a jail sentence?Thats the biggest crock of Sh** that commonly is thrown up in everyones faces.If more minorities are in prison it must be because they either are committing more crimes or at least are getting caught more often,sorry its not racism, just facts.Before anybody gets out of joint over my statement,I happen to have black friends and I don't care what color you are as long as you are a decent person,but please don't shout racism as an excuse for racial make-up of the prison population.Chow,Ralph

[This message has been edited by TOMBSTONE (edited 09-24-2000).]
 
If I have someone paint rasist sayings on my Chevy, are people realy going to boycott Chevy because of what they have seen?

I can't believe that the people that were judging Case (by false information) actually think they are better than the KKK, who are judging blacks (by false information)!!! Many who say they are against prejudice are the first to judge by appearances!!!

Let's all live in the present...
Michael

------------------
He who has smelt the smoke is never free again...
 
BTW...

I am an American!.

I am not a believer in the titles that set us apart! The Irish were treated better than the blacks, but were considered scum none the less. The only difference is that we got over it, and called ourselves Americans, and left the past behind!

I would not even think of boycotting a company that made a knife related to the potato famine!!!!!
 
Originally posted by Full Tang Clan:
Did you know that blacks are overrepresented in prison population? That means that blacks are more likely to go to prison for a given crime than a white person who commits the same crime.

{snip)

... I hate to see these perpetual inaccuracies being portrayed.
Click to expand...


Well then, you'd better stop perpetuating those inaccuracies. With the information you gave there is NO WAY you can infer that "blacks are more likely to go to prison for a given crime than a white person who commits the same crime."

If you do indeed believe that to be true, come on over to the Political Forum and start a thread about this subject. However, please attempt to back up your statements with something resembling logic and fact.

------------------
Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection
AKTI Member #A000289

Deo Vindice
 
First of all, I wish this thread would be terminated. It's gotten way off the topic of knives, and I'm as guilty as anyone else for it. In addition, it's starting to get too personal and infringing upon people's feelings, and confrontational.

This is my last entry but let me add a few rebuttals:

Tombstone,

Who are all these minorities in high positions in politics/business/media? I don't expect you to name names but what percentage do they comprise? Is the number representative of the population?

In addition, many of you have only a stereotyped concept of affirmative action. First of all, that is an obsolete term rooted in the 70's. It is called "employment equity" and it exists to insure companies fairly screen, select, and maintain qualified individuals who may be potentially discriminated against. It does not mean that a person is hired by the color of their skin, or religion. They still have to be qualified for the job. Secondly, it doesn't mean that half the workers are black, and half are white. It means that the workplace should reflect the population. E.G. if 20% of people looking for work as accountants are African-American, then employment equity makes sure that 20% of people being interviewed and considered for hiring are African-American. That's fair, isn't it? It may not be a perfect system, but it's there because the previous system was more imperfect.

TRUE STORY: A boss once confided in me why he hired me, over another candidate (who may have been more qualified). Because, I wore a nice suit to the interview, and the girl had rings in her nose. Still don't think we judge people by their looks?

C4,

You are right in that people are jumping on Case unfairly. It is quite possible that it is not a factory-authorized edition.

Senator,

My source is criminology studies -- relating to patterns in crime -- in university.

Although, it may not have been my major, it's probably a more educated response than some of the posts here.

In addition, I have a degree in the applied psychology area of organizational behavior. I've had my fair amounts of reading on the frail human psyche area known as personal biases which in turn is one of the roots of prejudice.

BTW, what's your source?


[This message has been edited by Full Tang Clan (edited 09-24-2000).]
 
Lets see who was General Powell?The top military official,media?who's Oprah Winfrey?As well as the excecutives at BET network,plus there are many in political office on all levels,as well as large corporations,"so save it"People are given jobs based on there ethnic backround and to say different is just plain being untruthful to yourself.Thats okay,at a time in past history it was necessary,but not at this point in time.My father worked for the State I live in for thirty years as a civil servant and saw reverse discrimination through affirmative action first hand,so spin a yarn to someone else, not me.He had dealt personally with people that were not qualified for the job.I do agree with the thread being way off topic,and it doesn't belong here.AS far as my feeling are concerned,I have thick skin and I'm not afraid to voice my opinion.No feelings being hurt here.Best Regards,Ralph

[This message has been edited by TOMBSTONE (edited 09-24-2000).]
 
I agree with Full Tang Clan that this thread is too far off base. I and other people said that we did not like a particular knife. Of course, we had histprical and political reasons for not liking the knife, but were talking about a knife. Discussions on a knife forum about affirmative action and racial discrepancies in criminal prosecution and sentencing serve no purpose here. As a fairly left oriented African American, I know that I have many political disagreements and fundamentally different worldview than many if not most knifenuts. I am not interested in trying to make you see things my way because most adults are comfortable with their worldviews and will not change them unless something profound touches them. Furthermore, I enjoy posting here because I can talk about one of my passions, knives. Like most knifenuts of all persuasions, most people don't share our interest in sharp things, therefore, it is important that we remember what brings us together here. That does not mean that I or anyone else should shy away from politics when it touches on knives, but that we should keep things in perspective and keep the focus on knives.
 
I thought that Dead By Dawn was trying to get a value on his knife? What the hell happened?

Can we all agree that we like knives? Not all types or styles, just knives.

Give DBD his damn price and get on with life. That's what's wrong with this country, we dwell on the past, instead of learning from it and moving on.

I'm going to go and get a tylenol.
mad.gif


------------------
EXCUSE ME WHILE I WHIP THIS OUT.
**Blazing Saddles**
 
This thread is definately way off topic. Some of the posts in the beginning raised a valid concern to question if a knife company
produced such a knife and if it did the poster would boycott the company. Fine, that's his right. The KKK brings out strong emotions in people. If Case or any other company made such a knife or not doesn't matter to me. It would matter to me if a company used their products to promote the owners personal beliefs. I see that every time I turn on the television. It's nice not to see it in knives.
I also don't see any mention of boycotting Smith & Wesson. Taylor sold the most vile and offensive of all the KKK knives. One that they sold had a figure of a hooded klansman and actually showed a burning cross. I believe they still sell some kind of clan knife.
Im am not upset by the company because, like the other KKK knives, the clan actually had nothing to do with the knives. They weren't official Klan knives. I doubt that the company that finished the Case knives has anything to do with the clan either. I see these as novelty with a tasteless motif.
I can assume that the run sold and the company made their profit. I don't like to see knives used in such a way for somebody to make a few bucks but it's their right to make them and our right to buy or not to buy them.

[This message has been edited by TomW (edited 09-25-2000).]
 
I certainly wouldn't ever buy a critter like this at a knife show or whatever, BUT that's not what happened here: DbD inherited it.

It IS too valuable a piece of history to destroy. Looking at it or even reading about it, you realize how pervasive racist attitudes were in the US. And in turn, you realize just how impossible it is that those attitudes are fully stamped out today - and therein lies it's value.

So the best thing that could happen to it is for DbD to just "sit on it", rather than risk it falling into the hands of a true racist who'll view it as a fetish item. Although the museum ideas aren't bad either, if he so chooses...but I won't slam his keeping it.

Now, as to Case formerly being racist enough to produce such a thing: you bet they were. You can also bet they'll never make another. If we're going to boycott companies or organizations for past racial attitudes, well, we're screwed.

Because I'll bet far more than half the people here either support the NRA, or are members. And their history in race relations was one hell of a lot worse than Case. The NRA brokered compromise gun control bills between 1911 and about 1935 - 40 that had the direct intent of eliminating legal minority gun carry. See also historian Clayton Cramer's groundbreaking thesis paper "The Racist Roots of Gun Control" at: http://www.ggnra.org/cramer//racism.htm

An example of a gun control proposal of this general type *also* supported by the KKK is Michigan's 1927 carry law, enacted after a black family acted legally in self defense when shooting into a lynch mob: http://www.detroitnews.com/EDITPAGE/9903/04/sweet/sweet.htm

In short, to boycott Case today because of a past business relationship with the KK implies that they were "unusual" in some way.

Like hell they were.

Jim
Equal Rights for CCW Home Page http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
 
Now, as to Case formerly being racist enough to produce such a thing: you bet they were. You can also bet they'll never make another.
Click to expand...

Not to keep harping on a point, but Case had nothing to do with the knife in question.

Hi James and Theavenger,
I certainly can verify what Theavenger has said. Case has never produced anything like this and never will. Someone has taken our stag trapper, put their artwork on the blades, and packaged it in their own container.

We have been trying to educated our collectors regarding how to verify Genuine and Authorized Case Collectibles. In the last CCC Newletter, we ran an article on page 7. In this article we showed the Longtail C which is a trademark for serialized collectibles that Case produces and distributes.

The Genuine Collectable Medallion is pictured in this article also. This is included in collectable items that have been developed and sold by Case through Authorized Case Dealers. These items may or may not have a serial number.

The aftermarket job which is done on many of our standard product is very deceiving to the consumer. We are striving to make the public aware of these bogus "Case Collectors Series" sets.

You can be certain that Case has more integrity than to produce garbage like this KKK Set.

Thanks,

Shirley @ Case
Click to expand...



------------------
Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection
AKTI Member #A000289

Deo Vindice
 
Hi all
when i read the first reply to DbD`s post i thought :wow what a good answer, fine man too! But reading this discussion for i while changed my mind. Not about chad234 (fine man !!!) but about the knive. Why ? I learned! I learned new facts about the knive - about the KKK - about Case - and about YOU ~ members! And i thank you all! Isnt this the only way we can make future better : Talk about history - talk about mistakes - discuss opinions (the more - the better ~ BS will stink!). If anytime this knive is shown or mentioned it will start such a discussion, i will be very happy it was not destroyed.
Thank you all!


*everyman makes mistakes - only fools makes it twice*


*to live is to learn - and to learn we need INPUT! INPUT! INPUT!!!
 
Sorry chad234
just recognised -
you wanted the knive to go in a museum, not to be destroyed!
I would like to see it in plain public, just to start a discussion or another.
I`m still sure when everyman (i hope the word includes female!, sorry for my englisch which is mostly learned from gunmagazines) speaks out loud about his/her opinion, we can detect BS! We will smell it!


*to live is to learn - .........
 
So, does anyone know the price range for this knife? I don't really expect any pictures to help the knife get appraised, just argued over more vehemently and crapped over.
Is it possible to scratch (or wipe or something) the KKK crap off of the knife or would that just cause the knife damage?
Is the knife worth more since it has KKK crap on it?? (the knife is not crap just the KKK part of it)

------------------
Cameron
"It takes a killer...to stop a killer"
uriel.gif

http://home.san.rr.com/balisongfans/galleries/kile/index.html
 
The best way to find the price is to check E-bay.
KKK knives of different styles show up there quite often
 
I must admit to being somewhat prejudiced - against a$$holes (white, black, extra-terrestrial, sheeple, whatever). I am personally waiting for a limited edition Louis Farrakan/Hezbollah Frost Cutlery rendition of a Wiccan sacraficial ceremony dagger made by Gil Hibben and originally invented by Al Gore
wink.gif


If ya can't laugh about it, you are taking it too seriously (profound, eh).

Later,
Chris
 
Originally posted by CPR:
I am personally waiting for a limited edition Louis Farrakan/Hezbollah Frost Cutlery rendition of a Wiccan sacraficial ceremony dagger made by Gil Hibben and originally invented by Al Gore
wink.gif
Click to expand...

You mean you'd own a knife by (gasp!) Al Gore?!?!
biggrin.gif


------------------
Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection
AKTI Member #A000289

Deo Vindice

[This message has been edited by Senator (edited 09-27-2000).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top