Large Survival Knife Steel Choice? Most important characteristic?

[Crag the Brewer]

I’d personally wager S7 Ala Gossman or Busse. Nathan’s D3V is no slouch and neither is INFI. View attachment 2480491

Nice looking group.......just missing One knife.

 

[JWright214]

Toughness would be my biggest concern followed by ease of sharpening. Several of those I have no experience with so I will list stuff that I have experience with.

420HC as per Buck meets the criteria
A2 per LT Wright has been great to me
1095 per ESEE is solid IMO
1095 crovan per Becker/Kabar has been solid
LC200N that I really like which is never seen in such blades

I liked the 3v well enough, but I question my ability to keep it sharp without a minimum of a Sharpmaker in the field.

Going on data, opinions, etc I would like to try M4 and aeb-l in a survival knife.

Edit:

To add that, so far, I really like this 80crv2 in my Wachtman Knife and Tool Eddy 2. I could see it making the survival knife cut as well.

 

[Creaky Bones]

 

[ace]

Hello,

Just trying to gauge popularity and opinions on what type of steel people here prefer in large knives (8”+ blades) intended to be used in a wilderness living/survival type role.

Should certain steels have been included or not included in the poll/what am I missing when it comes to steel choice for this type of knife?

In this role, what’s most important to you:

Toughness?

Edge holding?

Ease of sharpening in the field?

Overall cost of the knife?

Combination of these factors/Something else?

A few thoughts and questions. Where are you trying to survive, northern forest, jungle, desert, ocean, etc. It really depends. Ease of sharpening on a random rock seems to always be a big factor in these discussions, but what is the situation where you would bring a huge and heavy knife, but would not bring a small diamond stone as well? If it is planned survival then bring the stuff you need, if it is a true, unpredicted survival situation how is it you have a 8“+ bladed knife with you? Sharpening on a random rock sounds like fun, but depending on where you are there might not be random rocks you can actually sharpen on, and again why do you have this large knife and no means to sharpen it? Toughness is always brought up in these polls, but most large “survival” knives are made out of 1095, which is not a tough steel, it is one of the most brittle, popular knife steels and yet it does fine due to the geometry used on such knives. Any of the listed steels and many more would be better.

The bottom line is, if you are lucky enough to have a knife in a survival situation it will either be a folder or some small edc/hunting blade. If you just want a large knife, pick design that you like from a good maker and ask them which steel they prefer. Geometry, balance, comfort are much more important than steel for these knives. Any of the steels and many more done well will work, some could be better than others, but it really depends on the tasks you envision you need to do with this knife and where you are doing them.

 

[hugofeynman]

Toughness
Ease of sharpening in the field
Edge holding
Overall cost of the knife

My choices would be: 8670, 15n20, 5160 or S7. From these 4, I would choose the steel my maker is more comfortable working with. Toughness would be my top priority, followed by ease of sharpening in the field with usual stones, not vitrified diamond stones.
Edge holding is good, but in the field no one is cutting carpets, so no need for high vanadium.
The cost is dependent on the quality of the artisan, so we will get what we paid for, better not cutting corners.

 

[scdub]

If it is planned survival then bring the stuff you need, if it is a true, unpredicted survival situation how is it you have a 8“+ bladed knife with you?

Because I keep one in each of my vehicles along with a few other survival items, so if I swerve off a cliff and have to survive a few days at the bottom of a cliff (this happens in my area) I’ve got the means to make a shelter and stay warm.

I also bring along a larger knife capable of chopping whenever I’m in the woods and NOT carrying much other gear, (like about 20% of the time I exit my patrol truck).

(Home made 1/4” 5160)

Again, if I tumble down a hill and have to spend a night outside, a large knife will help me make a shelter/matress more efficiently than perhaps any other single tool.

 

[ace]

Because I keep one in each of my vehicles along with a few other survival items, so if I swerve off a cliff and have to survive a few days at the bottom of a cliff (this happens in my area) I’ve got the means to make a shelter and stay warm.

I also bring along a larger knife capable of chopping whenever I’m in the woods and NOT carrying much other gear, (like about 20% of the time I exit my patrol truck).
View attachment 2480777
(Home made 1/4” 5160

Again, if I tumble down a hill and have to spend a night outside, a large knife will help me make a shelter/matress more efficiently than perhaps any other single tool.

Sure, it is excellent that you are prepared. Your knife doesn’t look to have an 8”+ blade which is a lot more reasonable and likely, but let’s say it did. Since you are prepared why not have a small diamond stone in each vehicle attached to the sheath of your knife or along with your other survival items? Doesn’t need to be fancy or expensive and will allow you to sharpen any knife in a pinch, if the knife even needs it.

 

[stabman]

I'd like to know where all these "sharpening rocks" are at out in the wild...
I have found very, VERY few rocks of any sort in the woods around here.
I did try my hand at sharpening a knife on a rock I found (around town) which I took home with me.
1095 steel. Did get it sharp enough to cut things, but it was a nasty, ugly edge, and not the best. And that's from the best rock I could find when looking amongst a bunch of rocks.

Packing a small sharpener seems wise if you want to be able to sharpen out there, in the field.

 

[scdub]

Sure, it is excellent that you are prepared. Your knife doesn’t look to have an 8”+ blade which is a lot more reasonable and likely, but let’s say it did. Since you are prepared why not have a small diamond stone in each vehicle attached to the sheath of your knife or along with your other survival items? Doesn’t need to be fancy or expensive and will allow you to sharpen any knife in a pinch, if the knife even needs it.

I frequently carry a larger fixed blade if I’m hiking off duty or going on a search and rescue - but I’d be happy with a smaller fixed blade that has enough heft to chop - like my boot knife.

As for sharpening stones, I’m kinda on the spectrum in that regard, https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/rocks.1859813/, but I don’t see anything wrong with bringing a diamond stone - especially if your knife is in something like 3V…

 

[W.E.S.T]

A few thoughts and questions. Where are you trying to survive, northern forest, jungle, desert, ocean, etc. It really depends. Ease of sharpening on a random rock seems to always be a big factor in these discussions, but what is the situation where you would bring a huge and heavy knife, but would not bring a small diamond stone as well? If it is planned survival then bring the stuff you need, if it is a true, unpredicted survival situation how is it you have a 8“+ bladed knife with you? Sharpening on a random rock sounds like fun, but depending on where you are there might not be random rocks you can actually sharpen on, and again why do you have this large knife and no means to sharpen it? Toughness is always brought up in these polls, but most large “survival” knives are made out of 1095, which is not not a tough steel, it is one of the most brittle, popular knife steels and yet it does fine due to the geometry used on such knives. Any of the listed steels and many more would be better.

The bottom line is, if you are lucky enough to have a knife in a survival situation it will either be a folder or some small edc/hunting blade. If you just want a large knife, pick design that you like from a good maker and ask them which steel they prefer. Geometry, balance, comfort are much more important than steel for these knives. Any of the steels and many more done well will work, some could be better than others, but it really depends on the tasks you envision you need to do with this knife and where you are doing them.

Valid points. I’m definitely in northern hardwoods, that does seem to be a relevant detail.

Outside of an accidental survival situation, a possible use case I can see for the tools I’m describing is intentional wilderness living/bushcraft/wildcamping. Where conceivably, you’re right, you should have at least basic sharpening equipment.

For weight constraints, pairing a larger knife with a saw and a small knife is a strategy I enjoy. This results in flexing the large knife into the role of a hatchet. Outside of weight I can see a few advantages of using a large knife in place of a hatchet:
Longer cutting edge, more sharp steel, more forgiving of poor aim while chopping.

Albeit a rare circumstance, more pointy, better for use as an emergency weapon. Better recovery time from swings.

Better for potential use in food prep.

While you can baton with a hatchet, the froe like shape of the large knife makes this task easier and I think batoning, is safer. Especially after dark or when fatigued /hungry.

Chopping performance will likely be subpar to that of a hatchet, weight being concentrated behind a smaller cutting edge.



Talking geometry as a better defining characteristic of performance of a tool like this versus steel choice makes sense.
And the example of 1095 not being very tough, yet successful in these types of knives brings the point home.

However, doesn’t it make sense, if designing a knife from the ground up, to also choose a steel with potential for better performance? Or is steel really not a relevant factor at all?

 

[ace]

I frequently carry a larger fixed blade if I’m hiking off duty or going on a search and rescue - but I’d be happy with a smaller fixed blade that has enough heft to chop - like my boot knife.

As for sharpening stones, I’m kinda on the spectrum in that regard, https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/rocks.1859813/, but I don’t see anything wrong with bringing a diamond stone - especially if your knife is in something like 3V…

That's a cool thread. I just question this whole idea where I have a large knife with me and I need to be able to sharpen it on a random rock I find around where I am. You are lucky to be in an area where these rocks are, many places don't have them and wasting precious energy and time resources to look for one in a real survival situation seems ill advised. Now, if they are all over the place great, but not likely everywhere. Regardless of how one feels about diamond stones or plates, a small one is light, cheap and will allow you to make any knife sharp enough. I don't see a reason not to have one if you are planning and have a knife and other survival items. You might of course be in a situation where you would only have the cloth on your back, but then you won't have a knife either or will have a small knife, folder most likely. It is just this whole idea of sharpening in the field with whatever you can find and at the same time having the knife of your choice seems very odd to me. It is either pure fantasy or someone would have to do this on purpose bring a knife and no way to sharpen it, but hope to find a sharpening rock.

 

[David Mary]

W W.E.S.T I'm with you for the most part, except:

Chopping performance will likely be subpar to that of a hatchet

As with anything, which knife, and which hatchet?

 

[ace]

However, doesn’t it make sense, if designing a knife from the ground up, to also choose a steel with potential for better performance? Or is steel really not a relevant factor at all?

It absolutely makes sense. Steel is very relevant when designing a knife from the ground up for a specific task. It is just when we talk survival, true survival, steel is very, very low on the list of important factors.

For one, everyone says, you need something that is easy to sharpen in the field. Why is it so important and is usually the most important factor? If we agree that we are not talking true survival, but more a situation you are describing then we have to agree that sharpening your knife is not an issue as there are very simple solutions. If we agree to that then you can pick steels that will actually stay sharper longer and maybe not require any sharpening in a few days of "survival". Look at blade sports, they use 4V class steels and they are pretty abusive to the knives. They could use S7 or 5160, but they don't. From your list 3V would probably be the best in allowing you to optimize geometry and have the lightest knife that holds an edge well, but that goes against that knife being a good chopper. I would go with the design you like from a good maker or company and pick the steel they are known for, not start with the steel. Also, look at nations that have lived in northern hardwoods for centuries and the knives they use, there is a good reason why they might carry something like a puukko and a hatchet or something similar. In the quest to create a single knife that does it all we often make too many compromises and end up with a mediocre tool that can kind of do everything poorly.

 

[W.E.S.T]

W W.E.S.T I'm with you for the most part, except:



As with anything, which knife, and which hatchet?

Well as with anything there are outliers, and this could be another area where geometry comes into play. Some hatchets are very thick, better suited to splitting.

I think generally speaking, hatchets out perform large knives when it comes to chopping. Again, concentration of most of their weight behind the cutting edge that is making contact with the wood. The knife’s distribution of weight plays against it.

 

[David Mary]

I didn’t think we were talking about generalities but what is possible to someone designing a knife for a purpose.

 

[W.E.S.T]

In the quest to create a single knife that does it all we often make too many compromises and end up with a mediocre tool that can kind of do everything poorly.

This does ring true, and is what I’d like to avoid.

I would go with the design you like from a good maker or company and pick the steel they are known for, not start with the steel.

This seems like solid advice. Being open to a steel that a particular company or maker has experience heat treating, and is therefore a known quantity so to speak.

 

[David Mary]

A Khukuri inspired design with 3/16” stock and a thinly ground 9-11” AEBL blade between 59 and 61 RC comes to mind as something that would do everything better than poorly.

 

[Grasshopperglock]

Have you ever chopped down a tree? 4-6inch diameter?

It's a pain with a hatchet. Extreme calorie burner, wrist buster.

I'd look outside that box. Decide not to use your knife to chop. But instead, get a really nice limb saw. Something that has storage for other saw blades.

I'm not guessing about all this. I've been in the position before and hacking at trees suck. The limb saw is a nice break from that.

 

[W.E.S.T]

I didn’t think we were talking about generalities but what is possible to someone designing a knife for a purpose.

I suppose that is correct, a knife of size can, and I’m sure has, been designed to out perform a (specific) hatchet. And it does seem like for this specific task, steel probably isn’t the most important thing.
As a maker, I’d be interested in what you think would be important in trying to do this:

Designing the tool at a certain weight?

Choosing a specific geometry or grind?

Choosing a specific blade length?

Something else?

 

[W.E.S.T]

A Khukuri inspired design with 3/16” stock and a thinly ground 9-11” AEBL blade between 59 and 61 RC comes to mind as something that would do everything better than poorly.

Okay interesting, maybe blade shape is a good factor to consider also.