Leather Sheaths

[eric brinkerhoff]

I use a 3/32" drill bit and double up my stitching.(go around twice)

 

[AustinS1234]

Yes , there is...........I drill holes with 2mm dril bit

Haha I like the way a pricking iron looks though!

 

[AustinS1234]

This is what I do too.

You might need to get a stitching spacer to make sure the spaces are equal

I just bought a new pricking iron and I’m thinking about starting with that then finishing the holes with the drill press technique.

 

[AustinS1234]

I can't afford enough bourbon to pay off all the people I owe here!

A lot of (most?) leather workers will tell you not to drill holes for a number of reasons. For a long time I drilled 1/16th" holes (I'm not a leather worker). Now I put a finishing nail in my drill press and just use it to press holes.

Does that nail end up making a hole similar to a diamond shaped pricking iron?

 

[AustinS1234]

Basic idea of pressing a hole is that all of the leather is still there and it closes up and sort of grabs on the thread and helps hold things the most (remember I am not a leatherworker and this is a layman's interpretation of my readings...). When you drill you remove material and things can't close up as tight around the thread and it isn't as good a quality hold.
I've read about 8-10 threads/discussions about this and there is some pretty heated views on all of it. Some people who drill holes make some amazing sheaths/leatherwork too and seem to have been doing it for a long time. But overall I would say the vast majority of the serious leatherwork people seem to punch rather than drill. Of course we are talking about people who hand stitch, not machine stitching.

I have heard similar things. And to be honest I feel like I will get a more even stitch if I use a pricking iron as supposed to drill. I think I have to get my needle thickness thread thickness and iron tooth thickness all to be just right so I’m not stitching for 10 hours pulling with all my strength.

 

[AustinS1234]

If you use a needle or nail, the hole burnishes, rather than tearing the leather. Much cleaner holes. I started with a twist drill, but someone years ago suggested the needle/nail, and it works quite well. I don’t just press the holes, the drill press is spinning as I press it through.

So you use a nail or needle in a drill press while it’s spinning to avoid the burnishing of the hole? I have noticed some of the holes get glossy if I use a dull tool.

 

[AustinS1234]

Hard to explain in words:
Have one needle to the left, one to the right.
Take the right needle, go trough the leather to the left. Don't pull tight, leave a loop.
Take the other needle, go trough the leathet to the right. Now go trough the loop with the needle. I always go trough the loop twice.
Now pull both threads.
It gives more volume and the leather presses tight on the threat.
I always take in threat 6 times the distance I want to sew plus 8" for handeling.

Is this a saddle stitch but instead of missing the loop you go through it?

 

[weo]

So you use a nail or needle in a drill press while it’s spinning to avoid the burnishing of the hole?

I think you misread this, because the needle will burnish the hole. What it doesn't do is cut through the leather, removing material and disrupting the integrity of the individual fibers/cells, but rather separates them (in theory, anyway). It's a similar argument to the blacksmithing discussion on the benefits of slitting/drifting holes in steel vs drilling them.

The main reason I use this technique is to minimize the size of the holes, making for a cleaner looking sheath (IMO)

 

[Willie71]

So you use a nail or needle in a drill press while it’s spinning to avoid the burnishing of the hole? I have noticed some of the holes get glossy if I use a dull tool.

The hole burnishes this way, rather than tears.

 

[Hengelo_77]

Is this a saddle stitch but instead of missing the loop you go through it?

It's a sattle stitch.
You go trough the loop before pulling the stich tight

 

[AustinS1234]

I think you misread this, because the needle will burnish the hole. What it doesn't do is cut through the leather, removing material and disrupting the integrity of the individual fibers/cells, but rather separates them (in theory, anyway). It's a similar argument to the blacksmithing discussion on the benefits of slitting/drifting holes in steel vs drilling them.

The main reason I use this technique is to minimize the size of the holes, making for a cleaner looking sheath (IMO)

Ohh gotcha!

 

[Horsewright]

To match the diamond shape hole of a pricking iron use an awl blade of the same size in the drill press. Don't have it turned on, just use it to press the holes through the leather. Have a smooth board backing and some folks will throw a piece of scrap leather on top of the board to help from marring up your sheath. Little bit of beeswax or paraffin on your awl blade will help passing through the leather and keep it from getting stuck on the way back out. This little trick is also great with a needle going through while hand sewing. If you are really fighting it hand sewing needles are made in different sizes. Maybe you are using one too big for your awl holes? Pricking irons are not meant to punch all the way through. They are meant to start the hole and then the hole is finished by hand with an awl as you sew. I haven't hand sewn much in the last 25 years since thats when I bought my first sewing machine. But prior to that I was a hand sewing fool. And I mean fool. Once hand stitched an entire pair of shotgun chaps including the full length zippers that go down the out side of both legs. No mas:

C Cushing H. This one cost a handle! Modified a 1942 Tanker holster pattern to fit my ranching partner's Steve's Colt 1903. He showed up the next day with a handle of sour mash and ceegars:

Should also mention that there is thoughts out there that hand stitching is better/stronger than machine stitching. Not so. Good hand stitching is not any better than good machine stitching and good machine stitching is not any better than good hand stitching.

 

[Cushing H.]

C Cushing H. This one cost a handle! Modified a 1942 Tanker holster pattern to fit my ranching partner's Steve's Colt 1903. He showed up the next day with a handle of sour mash and ceegars:

Horsewright - meant to respond to this a while ago .... time got away from me. I did finish that holster you and I were communicating about:


Per the thread, this was hand stitched with holes made via rotating nail in drill press. After I cut the belt holes I realized I messed up and they should actually be on something more like a diagonal. Not nearly as clean as yours - but apparently will work ok for the friend....


Not nearly as nice looking as yours (I still do not have the courage to try any extensive tooling, much less carving work....). The leather also continues to show its low quality in terms of visual appearance. When I have exhausted this batch I will need to source something better - and likely drum dyed. I wet formed this - but see in your holster for the Colt 1903 you did not. I think, for this application, I like the non-wet-formed look better.

Funny - in all my life I have never heard the term "a handle of whiskey". thank you for educating me!

 

[Jrmysell]

Yeah i use one of those wheels to mark my spacing then punch through with a diamond awl. I do it by hand though. I use a stitching saddle (not sure if thats the correct name) that I built with a couple pieces of scrap 1x3's. I have a little block of beeswax that I press against the back as I push the awl through. Keep a strop near by to keep it sharp. Then do a saddle stitch. I like the John James Harness Needles as the eye is the same diameter as the rest of the needle so no extra drag through the hole and much less likely to break.

 

[Horsewright]

Horsewright - meant to respond to this a while ago .... time got away from me. I did finish that holster you and I were communicating about:
View attachment 1345473

Per the thread, this was hand stitched with holes made via rotating nail in drill press. After I cut the belt holes I realized I messed up and they should actually be on something more like a diagonal. Not nearly as clean as yours - but apparently will work ok for the friend....
View attachment 1345474

Not nearly as nice looking as yours (I still do not have the courage to try any extensive tooling, much less carving work....). The leather also continues to show its low quality in terms of visual appearance. When I have exhausted this batch I will need to source something better - and likely drum dyed. I wet formed this - but see in your holster for the Colt 1903 you did not. I think, for this application, I like the non-wet-formed look better.

Funny - in all my life I have never heard the term "a handle of whiskey". thank you for educating me!

There is an old cowboy saying that "If you're gonna be a bear ya might as well be a grizzly." A handle is the grizzly of whiskey bottles! That holster looks great. Yep definitely better leather would help, alot. I'd bring that tab for the front slot down on your pattern for the next one. I run my slots at about 15 degrees. Just keep making stuff. The wife just carved this one and I did the construction:

Compare the trigger guard side of the revolver stitch line of this holster with yours. See how yours comes to a point, an angle, below the crane? Over the years that one stitch will be taking a lot of strain and weight. Curve your stitch line more on the next one to kinda spread the weight out over several stitches. Really good job though for a first holster!

Yeah i use one of those wheels to mark my spacing then punch through with a diamond awl. I do it by hand though. I use a stitching saddle (not sure if thats the correct name) that I built with a couple pieces of scrap 1x3's. I have a little block of beeswax that I press against the back as I push the awl through. Keep a strop near by to keep it sharp. Then do a saddle stitch. I like the John James Harness Needles as the eye is the same diameter as the rest of the needle so no extra drag through the hole and much less likely to break.

A small one is a stitching pony and a larger one that incorporates a stool or seat into it is a stitching horse. They are indeed extremely handy for holding your work while ya handsew. I had both when I was handstiching.

 

[Cushing H.]

Dave - thanks. I will remember the point re. Curving the stitching on the trigger side. It would be nice to have your mammoth punch for punching out the belt slots ... cutting them out by hand just added to a sloppy look. I doubt I will do many holsters though ... so not worth getting that beast. Not really pretty ... but functional...

 

[Horsewright]

Dave - thanks. I will remember the point re. Curving the stitching on the trigger side. It would be nice to have your mammoth punch for punching out the belt slots ... cutting them out by hand just added to a sloppy look. I doubt I will do many holsters though ... so not worth getting that beast. Not really pretty ... but functional...

I use that punch on pancake sheaths too. Yes the punch does help a lot.This one is a two incher and I'd get a 2.5 incher too if I could find one. I have two different 2 inch bag or oblong punches as they are called. On holsters I use the Osborne which creates a wider slot. On sheaths I use the Weaver which creates a thinner more refined slot.

A guy can always get by by punching two appropriate holes at each end of where he wants a slot one and then cutting in between.

 

[Cushing H.]

I use that punch on pancake sheaths too. Yes the punch does help a lot.This one is a two incher and I'd get a 2.5 incher too if I could find one. I have two different 2 inch bag or oblong punches as they are called. On holsters I use the Osborne which creates a wider slot. On sheaths I use the Weaver which creates a thinner more refined slot.

A guy can always get by by punching two appropriate holes at each end of where he wants a slot one and then cutting in between.

Hah .. turns out my wife just bought a punch to use on a belt. I will have to remember that little trick.

 

[Horsewright]

Hah .. turns out my wife just bought a punch to use on a belt. I will have to remember that little trick.

The danger is folks want to cut from hole to hole. Very easy to over cut and slice into the hole you are cutting towards. Cut partway from each hole cutting into the cut not into the hole. Much safer and neater too.

 

[Cushing H.]

. Yep definitely better leather would help, alot. I'd bring that tab for the front slot down on your pattern for the next one.

Oh .. I forgot to mention that this friend wanted the gun handle to be canted forward a ways ... so the location (in height) of that slot was intentional. He says the thing sits just about the way he wanted.