Lock Strength - Spyderco Paramilitary 2 vs Cold Steel Hold Out II

jbmonkey said:
maybe i misunderstood that users comment, but i took it as someone who doesn't watch the videos with the sound on when Mr. Demko explains he drills a hole for the weigh to hang on and removes the edge so it's safer to handle in the trials, etc. he would have known this if he watched with the volume on......i could be way wrong though and maybe he meant it the way you took it?
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You could be right, my BS detector is a finely honed instrument notwithstanding... my apologies to Monofletch if it was a misunderstanding.
 
Wow. It is funny, the supposed strength of the compression lock has been parroted as an attribute of the PM2 for years. We probably shouldn't expect to read many more of those posts.

Good job Cold Steel. Thanks for another great illustration. :thumbup:
 
jazub said:
Wow. It is funny, the supposed strength of the compression lock has been parroted as an attribute of the PM2 for years. We probably shouldn't expect to read many more of those posts.

Good job Cold Steel. Thanks for another great illustration. :thumbup:
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I'd like to see exactly how it failed the weight-hang.
 
Hi guys. Lots of talk about this test. I see the pmII has many fans as does spyderco in general. To be honest i think the compression lock is a great design I'm also a fan of the ball bearing lock, while I'm at it the Powerlock is great too. Plain and simple I'm a lock guy so I admire them all. Many locking systems have their own attributes that may make them ideal for a certain design. So really there is no best lock, but I believe there can be a best lock for the chosen design. All that said some knives do well in OUR standards some don't. These cold steel tests our based on our preferences for our product. I am always as fair and honest as possible, but I will admit I "cross my fingers" sometimes as we have had some tough battles.
 
DemkoKnives said:
Hi guys. Lots of talk about this test. I see the pmII has many fans as does spyderco in general. To be honest i think the compression lock is a great design I'm also a fan of the ball bearing lock, while I'm at it the Powerlock is great too. Plain and simple I'm a lock guy so I admire them all. Many locking systems have their own attributes that may make them ideal for a certain design. So really there is no best lock, but I believe there can be a best lock for the chosen design. All that said some knives do well in OUR standards some don't. These cold steel tests our based on our preferences for our product. I am always as fair and honest as possible, but I will admit I "cross my fingers" sometimes as we have had some tough battles.
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Mr. Demko I appreciate the opportunity to have dialog. It says a lot really.

You definitely have many passionate knife nuts here [emoji12]
 
I have a Delica in ffg vg1. Light. Slicey. Easy to cary. Cuts well. Chips when you breath hard. The lock wiggles like a dancer when you try to make a fuzz stick. Literally moves like it is dancing dub step.

It is in no way confidence inspiring.

The blade and lock move up and down, and the blade has lateral movement.

I like everything about it except the lock. (A regular lock back can be tight and confidence inspiring).

I've used triad locks hard for a decade with no movement.

The lock is just a better lock.
 
DemkoKnives said:
Many locking systems have their own attributes that may make them ideal for a certain design. So really there is no best lock, but I believe there can be a best lock for the chosen design.
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I absolutely agree with this statement. :thumbup:
 
One question for Mr. Demko:
How much lock engagement did the Paramilitary have?
I've noticed on some liner locks I had that the lock could slip off the tang when brand new with early lock engagement. After the lock had worn in, that spine pressure couldn't disengage the lock.

If the lock failure on the PM2 was by slippage, I could see something like that happening.
Just wondering. :)
 
crom said:
The part about the old vs new Voyagers is simply not true. I have owned/still own both versions and the new ones are the same stock thickness and the grinds haven't really changed. In fact, the Voyager grind changed for the better. CS DOES promote their knives cutting ability. If you are familiar with the meat filled boot stabs, you should be familiar with the leather cutting, the rope cutting, the seatbelt cutting tests in the same video series. I do not own a PM2 but I have a Hold Out 2 in AUS8a sitting in front of me as I type this. It has become one of my favorites because it cuts and slices so cleanly while also being a brute of a knife.
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I should have been more precise. I was referring to the AUS8 Tri Ad Voyagers, not the generation 1 models. The FFG Voyagers are all good slicers. Moving to BD1 has probably improved edge holding, but the geometry is, as far as I can tell, identical.
 
DemkoKnives said:
Hi guys. Lots of talk about this test. I see the pmII has many fans as does spyderco in general. To be honest i think the compression lock is a great design I'm also a fan of the ball bearing lock, while I'm at it the Powerlock is great too. Plain and simple I'm a lock guy so I admire them all. Many locking systems have their own attributes that may make them ideal for a certain design. So really there is no best lock, but I believe there can be a best lock for the chosen design. All that said some knives do well in OUR standards some don't. These cold steel tests our based on our preferences for our product. I am always as fair and honest as possible, but I will admit I "cross my fingers" sometimes as we have had some tough battles.
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Andrew, I've just gotta say you're a great guy for always having such an honest respectful approach to all of this and I can't help but like you. While some of the recent actions of Cold Steel really get to me you are a huge saving grace for them and you do an excellent job interacting with the knife community.
 
stabman said:
One question for Mr. Demko:
How much lock engagement did the Paramilitary have?
I've noticed on some liner locks I had that the lock could slip off the tang when brand new with early lock engagement. After the lock had worn in, that spine pressure couldn't disengage the lock.

If the lock failure on the PM2 was by slippage, I could see something like that happening.
Just wondering. :)
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The knife did not have early lock up. It looked very good.
 
I've never seen the compression lock advertised as super strong. Although in every add or description I've seen the tri-ad advertised as being super strong as if it was cold steels only way to stay in the market with other popular companies. I always though of knifes as cutting tools not hangers for weights though. Thanks for the comparison though it was interesting and obviously was useful information to many!
 
Camastron said:
if it was cold steels only way to stay in the market with other popular companies.!
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But, as everyone knows , who is paying attention, , it's very clearly NOT the only way Cold Steel is staying in the market competition. They are staying in the competition because everyone recognizes that their products are superior in so many ways, other than lock strength. That's just the icing on the cake.
 
flipe8 said:
I'm left wondering if these videos are doing both harm and good for CS? I mean, after reading this and a few other threads recently, it appears there's a number of members left with a sour taste
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Back some years ago, when the original Manix and Chinook 2 were being tested in-house by Spyderco against competitors, and they were rated for performance in lock strength, it was often asked how competitors were doing in the in-house testing. Sal was ever classy, not giving the results. I imagine he could have publicly shamed many companies that shared his same interest of producing knives for the public...
 
ichor said:
But, as everyone knows , who is paying attention, , it's very clearly NOT the only way Cold Steel is staying in the market competition. They are staying in the competition because everyone recognizes that their products are superior in so many ways, other than lock strength. That's just the icing on the cake.
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Exactly. If you want a Tiger Fork or some Ninja Stars what are you going to do; go shopping at Zero Tolerance? Of course not; you'd be highly disappointed in their offerings.
 
Danke42 said:
Exactly. If you want a Tiger Fork or some Ninja Stars what are you going to do; go shopping at Zero Tolerance? Of course not; you'd be highly disappointed in their offerings.
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Or if you wanted a slim knife, or if you wanted a knife longer than 4 inches, or if you wanted something for less that $100. Cold Steel knives of comparable size tend to be lighter as well.

If you're comparing price ranges Cold Steel competes directly with Kershaw, not Zero Tolerance. Kershaw have a nice range of Chinese made knives, but their RRP is probably about twice what it ought to be. Cold Steel used to get flak for selling AUS8 knives for more than $50. Kershaw will sell you 8Cr14MoV for almost twice that. 8Cr is a good budget steel, and I like it in a Sanrenmu that I can buy for about $20. $90? Not so much.
 
J85909266 said:
Back some years ago, when the original Manix and Chinook 2 were being tested in-house by Spyderco against competitors, and they were rated for performance in lock strength, it was often asked how competitors were doing in the in-house testing. Sal was ever classy, not giving the results. I imagine he could have publicly shamed many companies that shared his same interest of producing knives for the public...
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I have tremendous respect for Mr. Glesser and I love the way he does business, but I absolutely will not applaud him for decisions like that. Refusing to release testing data that would educate consumers in order to protect competitors is simply bad for us as consumers. It means that we're forced to buy based on hearsay and anecdotal evidence. No disrespect intended, but I still feel he made the wrong call.
 
Danke42 said:
Exactly. If you want a Tiger Fork or some Ninja Stars what are you going to do; go shopping at Zero Tolerance? Of course not; you'd be highly disappointed in their offerings.
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I, for one, get a kick out of the goofy stuff Lynn comes up with and someone is clearly buying it and....you, for one, don't have to buy it....and no skin off your nose. ;')
 
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