"Martial" folder?

S

sing

Joined
Jan 31, 1999
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Sal,

I heard "martial" folder tossed around several times. For the life of me, I can't find a picture of it anywhere. Is it in the new, green Spyderco catalog? I can't find it. Is it the Lum? Given Spyderco's (understandable) trepidation around the "weapon" aspect of the knife, I am kinda of surprised that I have you used that reference but can't find it.

thanks,

sing


[This message has been edited by sing (edited 23 February 1999).]
 
Sing - here's a photo of the Martial folder with a REKAT Pioneer:

REKAT.JPG


The knife is still in the early prototype stages. Maybe Sal can fill us in as to the specifics?

------------------
Dexter Ewing
Knife Reviews Moderator

"The keystroke is mightier than the sword"




 
Sing - the "Martial Bladecraft folder" (didn't like the sound of "fighting knife") is a design that I penned simply to make a prototype to test the Rolling Lock invented by Bob Taylor of Rekat. It was a legitimate excuse to make a new "toy". Using the Keating/Philipine influence, this is what came out.

Bob Taylor and Bob Brothers made a prototype (in record time) so we were able to show it at the New York Knife Show.

Reaction was good so we began re-engineering the Rolling Lock and put it into this "Martial Folder" Design. So far, so good. Our chief engineer "nested the entire lock module into G-10 to produce a very light, very strong, thin (only .400 (10mm) thick). product. It is a 3.5" (90mm) upswept blade with a full belly. Flat ground 440V. 14mm opening hole (Military size). The plan is to produce the piece as a limited production item paired with a trainer. I designed the piece primarily for me, not for others, so some might find the design too specialized.

Don't expect anything before fall to the end of the year. There are many aspects of this type of design that must be thoroughly tested. Though most don't ever "knife fight" as most fencers don't ever fence in defense, the remote possiblilty does exist that the item may be used for self defense. I surely wouldn't want the lock to not be strong enough or the blade too thin or?? For us, it is not a hurry up and make to sell item. It is more of a classic piece like the Police Model or the Military Model, and we would like to refine, refine, refine before I would give it to you and say it works. Actually it's a very nice piece. We showed them at the SHOT Show. Doesn't look very intimidating. I can slice a free standing paper bag (mine is serrated, Eric has gotten very good at free hand serrations).

There are all too many "fighters" out there right now that do not have lock strength sufficient to manage a pass with an unwilling partner. Our knives are too sharp to permit such a possibility of lock failure. Two adult male arms, opposing in force might equal 100 lbs of combined force. multiplied by a 4" leverage arm of a 3.5" blade equals 400 inch/lbs of force. Our light weight Native holds 500, but that is not enough "safety" margin for the intent of the design. The Rolling Lock has tested very high in this regard. We play, you have to wait. sorry. I've been told that patence is preferred over silence?
sal
 
Thanks for the update, Sal. Looking forward to getting my hands on one when they are available!

------------------
Dexter Ewing
Knife Reviews Moderator

"The keystroke is mightier than the sword"




 
Thanks for providing this information, Sal. Take your time. I'll be patient.

I'm glad to hear about the flat grind. (The one in the picture is not flat ground, by the way.) I'm also thrilled to learn that the thumb hole is Military-sized. This, in my opinion, is one of the most compelling aspects of the Military. The Martial, from the photo, did not appeal to me very much originally, but it's beginning to grow on me the more I look at it. Knowing more about the rationale for the design and the thoroughness of the testing certainly inspires confidence.

Thanks again, and keep up the good work.

David Rock
 
Sal/Dex, thanks for the photo/info.

That is a "must have!" Package with a trainer is a GREAT idea.

I don't want to wait but I can because just as well for me to begin planning and saving for the purchase.

Now... about the color of that handle... <hahaha> Really, I think I'll take any color it comes with.

sing
 
Sal,

You've punched my button again!

I'll be saving my pennies for this one. The trainer is a great add-on and fits my idea of how this one should be delivered. I'm also glad you're taking your time to do this one right.

I've seen so many great knives lately, I can hardly stand it. Where's the group therapy being held today? No, I don't need therapy, just more money - the cure is to buy more knives!!!!
 
Very nice design...I like the fact that the point is exactly where you would expect it to be, which should help accuracy quite a bit. I wonder if Kraton inserts would be out of line for a truly tactical knife, or at least some kind of texturing on the scales to ensure a secure grip in wet/cold hands. The finger index looks really good, but I can't tell if the thumb stop behind the eye is textured or not...is it?

Also, would the trainer just be an identical knife with an unsharpened (and probably less-espensive steel) blade? Would putting a rolling lock in both make the package really expensive?

In any case, beautiful knife. I think I'll forget about picking up an AFCK and wait for the Martial.
 
I like the knife. The handle has a very good design to it. A little drop at the rear to keep the pinkie from sliding off and again to the front to prevent the hand from sliding forward. The middle is wider to fill the hand. A large thumb hole to catch under stress. The blade, because it is slightly upswept, leans toward slashing rather than thrusting, if used for "Martial bladecraft". A clip point shape or one like the Starmate would make the blade more thrust friendly. In thrust we trust, the other half of slash and thrust. IMHO, Damon.
 
The photo was the original hollow ground version made by Bob Taylor and Bob Brothers. The current proto is a little different.

The upswept point thrusts efficiently with Keating/philipine style.

The trainer will be same weight, no grind, no sharp point (rounded). The trainer was Bob Taylor's idea. The trainer will have the same handle and lock. Probably almost as expensive as the "live" version. But available, not a requirement to purchase.
Rekat's "Escalator" has a trainer available. I have both "live' and "trainer" versions. Nice package. I guess I'm a bit of a knife junkie myself.
sal
 
Sal,

What is your guestimate of the price range of the Martial individually, and with the trainer?

sing
 
What is the clip arrangement? Does the rolling lock hold the blade closed securely enough to allow the clip to be attached at the rear of the handle? (I can never remember if this is called tip-up or tip-down...) This would seem preferable for tactical carry, I'd think.
 
MaxQ - The Rolling lock will keep the blade securly in the handle when folded. However, the clip is designed to be a "Military Model" Style clip attached around the pivot pin. The Tip down configuration (clip at pivot end) offers more opening options).

Sing - no idea. probably in the range of the Military, which is scheduled to come down in a few months. We've just completed consolidating mfg with the rest of Spyderco into one building. (Lowers overhead) We will also be making a few minor changes. Eg; Frank Centofante developed a tumble finish (normally I hate tumble finish) that actually looks better than the satin finish and we believe it will save a few mfg dollars as well. We are currently pulling together to be able to do this in higher volumes.

I would accept this tumble finish on any flat ground (edge to spine) blade (such as the "Martial" (Martial Blade Craft Folder = MBCF ??). This might help keep costs down without compromising quality or performance.

We are also playing around with black blades again. If we can find an acceptable coating, this is also a possibility. Early stages are for methodically refining, not time yet for deciding. Hope this helps.
sal


 
YES! It's love at first sight, but don't tell my wife.
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To my way of thinking, the clip is where it should be.

Since I'm not a military man yet, do you think the martial will make me one? Or will it be "martial man"?
smile.gif
 
Sal,

Thanks for the response. I certainly think the cost of the "MBCF" (like that
smile.gif
) around that of the Military would be reasonable for a well designed, production knife with good materials.

My personal preferences to some of what you said -- I like Tip down carry on the bigger folders (of course, I understand the tip reasoning for the Emerson Commander). I could do without the black coating which would kinda put you back into that "tactical/assassin" look that you've been trying to avoid. It would also drive up the cost from what I seen of the BM black coated products. Of course, there will always be those willing to pay for that look. I am certainly willing to pay for it if that is the only option.

Looking forward to hearing more as the new MBCF develops.
smile.gif


sing
 
No Bob - you'll be a "martial artist"
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LOL

------------------
Dexter Ewing
Knife Reviews Moderator

"The keystroke is mightier than the sword"




 
Sal -- I read from KnifeCenter that this folder is not southpaw-friendly. Can something be done to accomodate us lefties?

I know you're one of the few manufacturers that care for us "wrong-handed" knifenuts!
 
Dexter,

You mean all those years were wasted - and that's all it takes!!!
wink.gif


Too soon old, too late smart.

It may be true that a knife in untrained hands is worth a black belt in most styles. There - that should stur someone up.
 
Mr. Glesser will undoubtedly correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I saw him say somewhere that although the rolling lock isn't ambi, that their implementation was such that left-handed versions would not be a huge pain to make.
 
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