My first try to grind less sticking kitchen knife

[Natlek]

Well it take me more then hour to get to this stage ...........I had to adjust angle on my work rest many . . . many time to get what I want at the end .... chisel-hollow- thinner behind edge blade on 17 inch contact wheel .
Now it is 0.20mm on edge and maybe about 0.10mm some 1.5-2 mm behind edge probably ...finish was 40 grit .I have only that one zirconia belt /for now of course/ for my just finished new grinder so..... My toughts . . . hollow should help to not create a vacuum and less contact with food and flat on spine will push food on side . Same with edge thinner behind edge , less contact with food less drag , better cutting ? I have no idea if this was done before but I would like to hear what you guys think about this ?
Steel is 12519 , 63.5-64 hrc and 2mm thick , the length of the blade is 17 centimeters .
I have now something like this on drawing

I use CA glue to hold steel on that square tube I use as jig .Clamp add weight on wrong place and they unbalance so I don t use them any more . . .

Back side is flat of course ,this is knife for right hand

I take dozen picture from this perspective to show grind ....but nope ,I can t do that

 

[tim37a]

That is similar to what I was thinking. It may try to steer with the edge you are showing but I don't know. Let us know how it works.
Tim

 

[Natlek]

That is similar to what I was thinking. It may try to steer with the edge you are showing but I don't know. Let us know how it works.
Tim

Well , tonight I glued some wood for handle.... we shall see this days how will cut . Now , after I shape profile around ricasso I see that it is much thinner in middle of grind than I first thought . If not work for food release as I think , it will cut like laser I will sharpen edge on 30 degree for now ...that counts like 2 x 15 degree ,right ?

 

[Mitchell Knives]

You could always try adding a urasuki on the flat side.

 

[Natlek]

That is similar to what I was thinking. It may try to steer with the edge you are showing but I don't know. Let us know how it works.
Tim

I needed to use support under blade to sharpen it .Too thin and it flex to much . . .

You are right 100 % .........on first cut it pull to left as crazy Where is red line is second cut , first one /not on picture/ is even worse ...... next one is after I put 17 degree edge from other /flat side/ and miracle.....I can control cut but still I fill force which pull in left side I will resharpen both side with equal angle after I made some test .....I learn something new everyday , I was thinking that with edge on only one side will cut straight like laser

And this is the reason I like so much this steel .........look how wire from sharpening flat side tear off when I make single move to strop on leather ...ONE piece , I broke it when I take it with finger to take picture..........isn't that another proof how thin edge can hold this steel ?

 

[Natlek]

You could always try adding a urasuki on the flat side.

I thought about that , but I was afraid to try on this one.This blade is second one I grind on contact wheel
And it would be impossible to grind now on flat side on this one , at least for me .I grind razor blade this time Blade now is 0.4mm on red line ......edge is singing like guitar strings I will try that on next one ...
And I need bigger wheel ........something like one meter dia.

 

[Natlek]

Well , on potatoes it pass with 10! I've been doing everything like on this video....not single one piece that sticks to blade .That hollow works ! I cut potatoes for french fries , BUT it cut thin piece for chips without to sticky to blade ,too . It push piece of potatoes excellent on side when cut start .....

I just make push cut , I don t hold potatoes with other hand

See gap , that was happening when I cut .............

I think that this knife deserve carbon cloth ...............

And now on this video I see that tip is slightly bend on left ?????????????

 

[Natlek]

Well I m done with tests ,no need for more proof .You know how difficult is to cut this kind of cheese /yellow cheese you call it ??? / You need to push hard and it stick to knife like CA glue Well not with this knife , guys .....not with this one
I watch carefully how cut goes....simple , food have almost no contact with blade/except edge / and when pass hollow part and touch flat part it simple start to go on side ......because nothing hold it . Hollow works !!
Look how little cheese is on blade after cut .On other knife there was enough cheese to feed my dog

My so far favorite knife in kitchen ,same steel same thickness but different grind ...FELL !! You need skills to take that cheese of blade

Look this picture.... almost no contact ......it s look like that juice from potatoes fall from flat part on the bevel /where potatoes touch first time steel / not from contact with blade ??

 

[Britt_Askew]

Thats cool
I watched the 1st video and was thinking his english is real good when he is talking... took me a minute to figure it out

 

[Frozen Bear Trading]

Thanks for sharing

 

[Natlek]

There is one restaurant where I often go to dinner .The boss/chef of the restaurant is a good friend to me . One day we start discussion about knives . . . . I told him about the knife I make for sticky food and he did not believe me .Note , he don t know that I makes knife till then .So , we made a bet ........ to make one knife for him and if knife do what I say .........I will eat there for free anytime I want next 365 days
So this is what I make in last couple of days ... This time I use thinner steel , 1.5mm on spine . Blade is short , around 13 centimeters .I leave little thick edge /around 0.20-0.25/ I know that he will use it for everything ....Handle is stainless/cooper/bronze /ebony /quince .I have little more work to finish it , but I think that I will leave it as it is ....Now it s time to start to plan what to order on first free dinner To be fair I will not make test cut with his new knife but I know that I will win , this thing don t stick on CA glue

 

[Sam Dean]

That's awesome! I'm hoping to try some stuff like this soon.

A while back, I came across non-stick discussion on another forum: https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/food-release-stiction-and-the-grind.35641/

This is a very creative solution to the food stick issue, and also allows the knife to have a symmetrical grind at the edge, so it cuts straight & doesn't steer.

 

[Natlek]

That's awesome! I'm hoping to try some stuff like this soon.

A while back, I came across non-stick discussion on another forum: https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/food-release-stiction-and-the-grind.35641/

This is a very creative solution to the food stick issue, and also allows the knife to have a symmetrical grind at the edge, so it cuts straight & doesn't steer.

Thanks for that link Some crazy grind there ........... I don t think that I can do that + I have not that much thick steel ..... When I finish my 10 inch contact wheel , I will try to grind this ... V part of edge /that two red line / I will grind as flat for both side in height of about half inch to zero edge and then add micro edge ? That way will eliminate steer completely , I hope .

 

[Sam Dean]

I think that would work. One thing I liked about your huge contact wheel idea is that you can do a grind (cross section) like this. Still only 1/16'' (1.6mm) thick stock, it would be a laser of a slicer!

 

[Natlek]

I think that would work. One thing I liked about your huge contact wheel idea is that you can do a grind (cross section) like this. Still only 1/16'' (1.6mm) thick stock, it would be a laser of a slicer!

View attachment 1103792

That was for 29 inch contact wheel ,right ? Gillette 0.5mm in the middle this steel can handle that easy ...........
Can you calculate for 2mm thick 35mm wide blade for 17 inch contact wheel ? That is largest what I have in moment . I can grind that easy.. .... hollow grind suit me I have mile of this steel to practice ......razor

 

[Sam Dean]

A 17 inch wheel would be PERFECT for that stock size. In fact, you might want to thin it to 1.7mm or so.

 

[tim37a]

Hi Sam,
Why do you want the blade hollow ground on both sides? The hollow on the back side won't do anything for stiction, I don't think. It would make the knife both handed, though.
Tim

 

[Sam Dean]

Hi Sam,
Why do you want the blade hollow ground on both sides? The hollow on the back side won't do anything for stiction, I don't think. It would make the knife both handed, though.
Tim

Yes, both handed, but mainly because a symmetrical grind would cut straight, where something like a chisel grind would tend to steer in the cut.

Or not. No clue really. I've never made or used anything like that, although I'd like to, just to see what happens. N Natlek has the material and a big wheel, so maybe he'll find out!

 

[Natlek]

Yes, both handed, but mainly because a symmetrical grind would cut straight, where something like a chisel grind would tend to steer in the cut.

Or not. No clue really. I've never made or used anything like that, although I'd like to, just to see what happens. N Natlek has the material and a big wheel, so maybe he'll find out!

That kind of knife would cut like laser . Especially on some hard foods . I imagine that because blade is thinner behind edge it will cut like if we cut with wire , almost with no resistance ......I have make many kitchen knives from this steel in same thickness , some of them have very high V grind and it is amazing how easy they cut .But I think that this shape of blade will lose ability as no sticky potatoes knife Main reason why I choose to grind only one side is because that way I can grind deeper hollow ......

 

[Sam Dean]

That kind of knife would cut like laser . Especially on some hard foods . I imagine that because blade is thinner behind edge it will cut like if we cut with wire , almost with no resistance ......I have make many kitchen knives from this steel in same thickness , some of them have very high V grind and it is amazing how easy they cut .But I think that this shape of blade will lose ability as no sticky potatoes knife Main reason why I choose to grind only one side is because that way I can grind deeper hollow ......

OK, I've been thinking about this way too much... I don't think it would slice all that well with just a double hollow. The edge needs to be thinned as much as possible to reduce resistance.

The red dashed lines are the original profile above.

I really think it should be flat ground first - shown by the green dashed lines.

Then, do the hollow grind & give it just enough concavity (.3mm) to not stick.

What do you think? Is this something you can try? I'd do it in a heartbeat if I had access to a big wheel. Right now, a 10 inch is the biggest I have.