My New Toy!!

Originally posted by Gollnick
There is a substantial difference between a polite, positive, constructive discussion and a bitter, negative, distructive fight.
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At what point was asking you to clarify your stand on the use of the term "solid bushing" vs "roller bearings" a negative, distructive fight? You were the one to mention roller bearings this time around, so I was trying to understand why you chose to use that term instead of the "solid bushing" from the Tachyon Disassembly article.
For years in this forum I have demonstrated a constant willingness to participate in polite, positive, constructive discussions.
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Never questioned that. Your contributions, as well as Clay's, are invaluable to the balisong enviornment. You just seem to have an issue when someone else's post. If you can't acknowledge my contributions to this forum this past few months then that's exactly my point.

There will always be someone with more experience and/or a better bali collection than any of us, and when that person shows up, I'll defer to his experience as greater than mine, and look forward to his contributions. Sharing bali knowledge is the focus of this forum.
 
Do Chuck and Tony always argue this intensely? I think there's a time for constructive criticism and argumentative debates.


Awesome knife Tombstone! :D
 
Guys, guys, guys! Knock it off!
The more you argue about what's a polite, positive, constructive discussion and what's a bitter, negative, distructive fight, the more bitter, negative and distructive fight it will become!

So instead of you two arguing about who's right and wrong, I say you rather take that bushings/bearings debate, and clear that up for all of us, once and for all.
I concider this a very nice place, with some damn good people, and I don't want that to be ruined!
No, I'm not saying you're not a couple of those damn nice and good people, because you are! But instead of fighting about who has the biggest attitude problem, go together as a team, and clear out the real problem! You both have lots of knowledge, which will be much more useful if you post them, and not just get all noicey.

Seriously, there's no need to ruin your friendship because of something as stupid as a couple of dumb, and perhaps even unnecessary comments. I've seen friendships getting broken because of less than this.

So get a grip of yourselves! If you have some personal problems, please, take 'em outside, like they say in bars and stuff. Don't involve the rest of us forumitees.

Stop this sillyness, and do what you do the best! :cool:
 
I believe Chuck was making a distinction between bearings that are one piece of metal or other material, and bearings that are of multi piece design. Certainly this is a valid distinction in the engineering elegance of a balisong, although as Chuck will tell you, one isn't necessarily superior to the other in practice. Typically the multi piece design has ball bearings (metal (most common) or sometimes ceramic, tiny spheres in our application) or roller bearings (dowel shaped, again tiny in our application, sometimes called needle bearings) contained between two metal circles of metal so as to contain the ball or needle bearings. There are various sub-types/configurations in both categories. Both types are not uncommonly called bearings, and both work well and are used in far more complex applications than folding knives. They are however quite different in their complexity. The one piece washers we commonly find in the "fancier", recent crop of balisongs (e.g., Tachyon, BM 40 series) are sometimes called thrust bearings or washers. For the sake of clarity shall we call the one piece types bushings and/or washers, and the multi piece types bearings. The key here is one piece or multi piece.


"There is a substantial difference between a polite, positive, constructive discussion and a bitter, negative, distructive fight."

How true.

"What is wrong with a civilized debate?"

Not a thing. In debate there is a term called "ad hominen" attack, and is theoretically disallowed and considered to be sophistry (down and dirty). This means rather than addressing the issues, the individual one is debating is attacked. Here is an example of addressing the ISSUES: "That might be one with roller bearings."

An example of AD HOMINEN attack might be taking periodic verbal snips at an individual under the guise of discussion, and is unpleasant for all of us. It should be said, however, that if one were subjected to such snips/attacks it would be perfectly natural for one to defend oneself. For example, if a student were constantly disrupting a classroom that had previously run smoothly, we wouldn't take the position that the rest of the class should "get used to it", but rather the offending student would be removed. The ideal solution would, of course, be for the offending party to exhibit more courteous behavior, especially if they otherwise had knowledge which would add to the value of the class.

TOMBSTONE:
Talk about opening with a show stopper--a custom no less! I personally wouldn't flip it, but I hear R.W. Loveless loves it when he hears his knives are getting used.
 
Ixpfah and RARanney: Perhaps I am guilty of instigating the tension this time around, with said "AD HOMINEN" attack, but the facts are that Chuck made the roller bearing a major issue here, with an "AD HOMINEN" attack of his own, as a direct counter to nothing else but one of my posts (I defy you to tell me who else he could be talking about):

http://www.balisongcollector.com/tachyon/tachyonDisassembly.html

I understand where the mechanical difference between a multi part roller bearing as made by Cooper and other manufacturers and those of a solid bushing. Chuck has spent some time and effort making the distinction known. The issue now is whether his definition of a roller bearing can include the same definition as mine. I use it because the "function" of the item is a direct execution of a roller bearing, in that the purpose is to reduce friction in a circular direction, while in the shape of a cylinder with flat side, working in a cylindrincal enviorment. I have taken the high road many time prior when Chuck was less than graceful with his postings, especially last time when Chuck's review first came out and acknowledge the difference:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=183304

This time, since he choose to mentioned the roller bearing, I simply saw it as an inconsistency, and decided to challenge him on it. Instead on continuing on a discussionary road he advise me to take a chill pill. I did not attack him, he chose to treat it as an attack.

The truth is Walter Erickson himself refers to those things as both a bushing and a bearing because, while it serves as a bushing to keep the handle forks from closing in against the blade, it serves as a bearing to reducing friction when the handle is being flipped. All I wanted to acknowledge is that both our definitions can be considered accurate. I just don't see Chuck agreeing with me, especially not with that portion of the Tachyon review.

Am I guilty of holding a grudge? Yes. Am I guilty of bringing down and disrupting this forum? I don't think so. If you disagree, you're welcome to prove me wrong.
 
Nice catch Tombstone.., and thanks for sharing the picture!! Come back and let us know how it handles..., and if you hate it.., I'll take it...(without any bearing-related questions at all) :)


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
Thank you Mr. RARanney. As always, you are a calm voice of common sense.

There is a clear difference between a solid metal tube variously called a bushing, bearing, or sleeve bearing, and the complex subassembly consisting of two concentric tubes with some friction-reducing mechanism, often ball bearings, between them known as a "roller bearing."

I now understand the problem here. Tony perceieved my use of the term "roller bearing" as a personal attack on him. I'm sorry. I did not use the term "roller bearing" as an attack on Tony. I certainly did not intend that at all. I used the term "roller bearing" because I meant to refer to one of those complex subassemblies consisting of two concentric tubes with some friction-reducing mechanism between them.

Tony assumed that he was being personally attacked and asked twice if I wanted to argue.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and I don't care to argue once or twice.
 
Tony,
I've suggested a means of identifying various bearings/bushings, as the various terms do overlap as you've suggested.
I don't want to take the time to prove anyone wrong, and that's the point. You are very knowledgeable on the subject of this forum and other topics as well, I'm sure; but so are a lot of other people. I know Chuck desires "peace in the valley" and wants to have all this be old business. If you'll agree to do the same, we'll have smooth sailing (or flipping?) and calm seas. Thanks very much.

RAR
 
This isn't becoming an east coast/west coast bali feud is it?

In any case, I'm still not clear on this......does the tachyon have bearings in it or not?

Bearings, to me at least, are the things in my hockey wheels, small metal cyliners that the axel passes through that contain small balls that roll around inside there.

I thought the tachyon just had a metal spacer (at least thats what I call them in my skates) that surrounds the bolt (or axel in the case of my skates) and fills the gap between the blade and bolt.

oh shoot, gotta go watch the rangers/red wings now on espn....I hope someone can clear this up for me...be back soon...



edit: Just read Chuck's Dis'n the Tachyon article on his site...I believe I have been thinking correctly all along, tanks!
 
This isn't becoming an east coast/west coast bali feud is it?
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Absolutely not.

Balisongs are a hobby for me, something I do because I enjoy it. I don't enjoy arguing. So I am not going to allow that to become part of my hobby.


In any case, I'm still not clear on this......does the tachyon have bearings in it or not?
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In my opinion, Tachyon contains simple bearings which are often also called bushings and sometimes called "sleeve bearings."


Bearings, to me at least, are the things in my hockey wheels, small metal cyliners that the axel passes through that contain small balls that roll around inside there.
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Those are, in my opinion, "roller bearings."


And I don't know about anyone else, but I've had quite enough of this thread.

Once again, Mr. Tombstone, congratulations on a fine balisong and I'm sorry that your thread got trashed.
 
ok thanks for clearing that up for me Chuck.

The east/west thing wasn't supposed to be serious, I know that we are all adults (at least legally) here and love balisongs and just love talking about them.

Back to the game.....
 
I couldn't take the temptation anymore and I've been flipping away.I threw a little tuffglide on the moving parts just for the heck of it and did a little pivot screw adjustment so she was perfect and boy oh boy does she swing very nice and smooth.Thanks for all the comments.I think this is the most responses anyone of my posts ever generated:p
 
Thanks Chuck,oh don't worry about the thread.I'm not offended.Interesting information about bearings too.:D
 
In deference to the group I will maintain peace. But again I have to find out what I'm not convey to Chuck. If Chuck's intention was not to rehash the roller bearing issue, then I simply ask that leeway be given me in my usage of that term when I describe the mechanical make up of a bali. We can agree that in the scope of the definition, the term is accurate (I hope).

BTW Chuck, the term was "debate" as in presenting the facts, not "argue" as in sniping. Which unfortunately is what turned out because of your perceived attack on my part. As you put it, it was not my intention. We are both guilty of over-acting.

RARanney: Thank you for weathering the storm. You are correct in that this is best left alone. I welcome any and all aspects of the mechanics of the bali, that is my passion.

Tombstone: Enjoy that bali. Just spoke to Walter, and he calls the small holes in the handle his "Pierced Spine" feature. Sorry to degrade your wonderful acquistion into a private shouting match. Glad you've gotten over you fear of collectibility. Use it well, Walter really likes it when his bali's are used.
 
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