Need dog advice

ANother heroic pitbull:

Pit bull's courage saves city couple
The dog is shot and killed while defending his family from three masked intruders

BY SAMUEL SPIES
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER Apr 2, 2005


Rock



Three men wearing ski masks burst through the back door and into the kitchen. The first man drew a gun and ordered Travis Rappold, 21, his girlfriend Amanda Searle, 18, and their three friends to lie down.

Enter Rock, Rappold's 75-pound pit bull. The dog jumped up from his seat at his master's feet and ran out from under the table toward the armed assailant.

"They yelled 'get that pit' and I yelled 'get him, Rock,'" said Rappold, recalling last Sunday's incident at his apartment on Rossmore Road in South Richmond.

Backpedaling, the gunman fired once, striking the dog in the chest. Rock kept going.

The intruders fled through the back door and scattered.

Rappold shut the door before Rock could keep chasing the three men.

Moments later, the injured pit bull collapsed as he tried to crawl to the second floor bedroom where he slept.

Rock died in Rappold's arms before he could try to administer first aid.

"Nicest dog in the world, but he was 75 pounds of muscle and pretty intimidating," Rappold said Thursday.

Rappold had rescued Rock from an abusive situation only a year before. When adopted, the 5-month-old pup "was just skin and bones," Searle said. "Travis saved him . . . and he came back and saved Travis."

Richmond police Detective Kevin Hathaway said the victims likely would have "been assaulted and robbed, if not killed, if it were not for Rock, who gave his life defending his owners from harm."
 
About the Pitbull and breed specific legislation:

Good News from Ala. Supreme Court........... BREED SPECIFIC Legislation (BSL) was dealt a savage blow last week in an historic victory for American campaigners when the Supreme Court in Alabama ruled that there was no genetic evidence that one breed of dog was more dangerous than another, simply because of its breed.

Around the world, anti-BSL campaigners are rejoicing at the ruling that drew on evidence provided by genuine canine experts, which was favoured by the judges over subjective evidence, put forward by veterinarians and politicians. The court ruling and the evidence used may now be legitimately used to fight BSL in other countries such as Germany and Australia, as well as other US States. In the UK, the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act could possibly be open to a direct egal challenge in the same way.

The action in Alabama was brought by the Washington Animal Foundation (WAF) against the city of Huntsville, which had claimed that American Pit BullTerriers were genetically dangerous.

The case centered on four pit bulls held in an animal shelter and adopted by three local women. The dogs were survivors of a group of over 50 pit bulls seized in a raid on a dog-fighting ring in April 2000. Half of the dogs died from injuries or disease, whilst the remainder including four puppies - were held at the City pound and put up for adoption.

Sheila Tack, an emergency room nurse at Crestwood Hospital, adopted two of the puppies that she named Justice and Elizabeth. Whilst they remained impounded, she visited them twice a week.

The other puppies, David and Nellie, were adopted by Kay Nagel, a military officers wife and resident of Redstone Arsenal, and Loyce Fisher, a civil service worker from Cullman.

However, the City Council refused to release the dogs, stating that they were a potential danger to human beings, although none had apparently displayed any aggression. The matter was referred to court for a legal decision on the dogs' fate. During a hearing last year, lawyers representing the city, Michael Fees and Greg Burgess, told Madison County Circuit Judge Joe Battle the animals were vicious and should not be re-homed.

The women, who did not have a lawyer, argued the animals were never trained to fight and conditioning can suppress any vicious tendencies the dogs might have.

Judge Battle agreed and on Nov 13 2001, declared the four young pit bulls were not dangerous because they were never trained to fight. The court allowed the city to destroy 21 adult pit bulls which had been used for fighting.

However, the City appealed Battle's ruling to the Alabama Supreme Court and asked the court for an order preventing the women from taking custody of the dogs. At this point, Seattle-based WAF became involved in the case and appointed Huntsville lawyer Mike Seibert to fight their case, based on evidence they gathered to counter the City lawyers claims that all Pit Bulls were genetically dangerous.

The foundation hired veterinarian Dr. Alan Jones of Hazel Green to examine the dogs. But the officers at the shelter do not allow anyone to have physical contact with the pit bulls, even vet Jones.

"They looked fat and happy," he said. "They seemed starved for attention and not aggressive at all"

Glen Bui, spokesman for WAF told a local newspaper that the dogs should be released.

"I believe that the City of Huntsville is wasting thousands of taxpayers' dollars attempting to destroy innocent dogs that were already given by the circuit court to the three women,' he said.

WAF filed an Amicus (third party) submitting genetic proof that Pit Bulls are not dangerous.

The city of Huntsville were backed by the extremist animal rights organization PETA that Pit Bulls were genetically dangerous, with evidence provided by veterinarians, none of whom was an expert in any specific canine or genetic field.

WAF cited case laws under Due Process of the law, and stated that it was unconstitutional to rule a specific breed of dog as dangerous in this way. They also claimed it was genocide to try to eradicate the pit bull breed.

WAF submitted evidence to the Supreme Court that they were able to provide:

1. Identification of expert treatises regarding the genetics of the breed in question

2. Testing and studies regarding genetics verses environment as the catalyst for a specific dog breed's aggression

3. Social contributions made by the American Pit Bull Terrier (i.e. as Assistance Dogs, Search and Rescue Dogs etc.)

4. The associations brief assisted the court as it had substantial knowledge concerning the issue before the court

5.The briefs filed by the City were insufficient to adequately address the far reaching issues involving genetic breed bias

6. The Foundation read all briefs and believed that innocent pet owners and innocent pets were not represented by either brief.

WAF co-founder Glen Bui told OUR DOGS this week: "The court granted WAF's petition and allowed us seven days to file amicus curiae (disinterested adviser). Myself along with Attorney Mike Seibert worked on the amicus long hours into the night, while WAF members Kay Nagel and Sheila Tack proofread and added input. It was finished with less than one hour before the deadline to file and Sheila raced to the US post office and sent it certified mail.

"Huntsville's entire case rested on affidavits from veterinarians claiming they examined the four pit bull pups and that they would pose a danger to the community because pit bulls are genetically dangerous. They also claimed the women had no legal right to adopt the pups, this was also addressed in the amicus brief."

On Friday, August 30, the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 in WAFs favour and ordered that the dogs should be released for adoption, accepting the evidence but forward by WAF that no breed of dog is genetically dangerous. "This is fantastic news," said Bui. "The city could appeal against the ruling, but Id like to think theyll give way and release the dogs to their new owners so that they can enjoy a good life. Two of them will be trained as Search and Rescue Dogs; the other two will become pets. The pit bulls have been evaluated and temperament tested before they are released, they are being spayed and neutered. The city did tell the media that the dogs would be released, so lets hope they keep their word."

Bui also told OUR DOGS this week: "For years the American Pit Bull Terrier has been alleged to be dangerous because of its genetics. Never has WAF found any genetic research proving that. When we were asked by three Huntsville women for help, they told us nobody else would help them, they had contacted everyone who fights BSL. We knew the women had to face the Supreme Court and this was a very serious case. We knew we had the genetic proof that no breed of dog is dangerous.

"We knew we also had statistics which proved the APBT has one of the best temperaments out of 185 dog breeds along with a strong legal defence. Being aware that never in the past had anyone ever argued the point, after contemplating the outcome if the women lost, I decided to bring WAF into the case, on the last day before the deadline for filing briefs in the Supreme Court WAF petitioned for Amicus Curiae.

"This case set a standard for future cases concerning BSL and genetics. We put several years of research into genetics and due process. We will use the statistics in Ohio; we have received assistance from state agencies in Ohio to investigate the Lucas County Dog Warden rulings on BSL in that State, as Ohio is totally BSL-controlled. Dog owners in Ohio really could use support right now. "It was a long battle and now we have proved the American Pit Bull terrier is not genetically dangerous."
 
I just got a reply from my State Senator here in NY (I had written him regarding pending legislation to increase penalties for injuring service dogs.) He supports my legislation and also included a list of other current animal related bills he's supporting.

One of them is relevant to the discussion:

S1895, which would prohibit insurers from cancelling, refusing to issue or renew homeowner's insurance policies based solely on the ownership of a particular beed of dog.

:cool:
 
All that the above court case 'proves' is that the city was out-lawyered by the WAF.
The WAF folks definitely did their homework ...staying up late to write papers, hiring 'experts', etc. The city, in contrast, evidently did not have anywhere near the motivation or energy that the WAF had. Shame on them.

Unfortunately, the WAF did not win because they 'proved' anything, as there is no current genetic 'test' that can measure aggression, or 'gameness'....we just don't know that much about what gene controls what ...yet. They won more on the grounds of a lack of a genetic 'test for proof' , proof that any decent geneticist could have provided with a lecture on selective breeding techniques ...had the city been smart enough to hire one to explain their case. That could very well change in the future.

In other words, don't confuse the absense of a current 'genetic test' for aggression as an absense of aggression ...aggression that formed the basis of the breeding for these fighting dogs. Common sense dictates that non-aggressive dogs would have been removed from the breeding stock early on, as they were breeding for a fighting dog that would be willing to run up to a bull, grab it by the nose, and hold on for dear life. You don't get that by breeding shy, docile, friendly 'family' dogs, despite what pitbull proponents may claim.
 
Tonight (Tuesday) on the O'Reilly Factor Bill is going to debate Linda Blair (yes, that Linda Blair) about pit bulls and breed legislation.
 
DaveH said:
here's some stast I pulled from the web concerning fatal dog attacks:

Breeds Involved

Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%),
Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%),
German Shepherd Dogs (9%),
Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%),
Malamutes (4%),
Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%),
Chow Chows (3%),
Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).

They forgot one breed, responsible for every single attack listed above:

Incompetent Owners (100%)
 
eleven said:
They forgot one breed, responsible for every single attack listed above:

Incompetent Owners (100%)


That is SO not true. Despite what is common belief, owners are not always to blame.

Dogs are animals with basic drives and emotions-- they have their own wills. This allows for the very real possibility of unpredictable and unexpected behaviors. People snap every day, so why wouldn't a simple, domesticated animal that is forced to live with us and become our everyday companions?

It doesn't sound like this latest pitbull incident in San Francisco was from any fault of the owner's.

Believe it or not (my apologies to Mr. Ripley) people, there are hundreds of dog attacks in this country every day. Fortunately, almost all of them are very minor. Sometimes they attack simply because they were not in control of their instincts or emotions at a time of perceived stress.

I'm not trying to single you out, eleven. It's just I hear this tired line all the time and it is completely fallacious.
 
GIGANTE, ARE YOU STILL HERE ? :D

In all seriousness, pit bulls and Corvairs aside, I hope you can decide on a breed or mix that everyone in your family likes.

I have seen a few different breeds close up. I think the individual dog has more to do with the success of the relationship than the breed itself.

When I lived in the Bronx, we got a boxer six months before our daughter was born and the two of them grew up together. Great dog. When we told her off for playing too rough with the poor dog, he would whine and "cry" because we yelled at her. He tore up a burglar trying to break into the dumbwaiter shaft. He killed a neighborhood dog that made the mistake of attacking my wife and daughter. One bite.

(Captain Haggerty ran a training center a few blocks from us, and he liked the way our boxer behaved. :) But he knew my wife and I were pretty good trainers ourselves.)

After that, we raised and trained a couple of Great Danes as guard dogs. A little slow on the uptake compared to the boxer, but totally sweet-tempered and cooperative. Too big for a small apartment, though. :p

Standard poodles are an excellent choice, and if your dog will be outdoors a lot, that tight curly coat will protect it from a rough enviroment, and doesn't shed the way a straight longhaired dog will.

But the most important factor is very personal. The dog is a person, too. Pick a breed, but then look at a few different examples of that breed, to find the one dog that responds specifically to your family. Go to a shelter and see which pup is alert and playful and friendly. You'll know the right dog when you meet it.
 
Hmmm,
I guess this is just an anomoly...
http://home.bellsouth.net/s/editori...atid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ck=&ch=ne&s=na
I can post stories like this everyday for the next year. Way more thatn you can ever conjure up emmanuel. What about the one last week in Chicago where the lab saved the kids life from a pit bull attack./..probably the owners fault...
There will come a point where it will get old blaming it on the owners and it will be the ol' boy who "cried wolf" scenario.
Any one who mixes these breeds with children is irresponsible and IMO asking for trouble and regardless of the few "success" stories ...there are many more tragic ones to report. Argue all you want...it goes against normal human resposibility to create such a situation.

Regards,

A person who trains dogs for a living.
 
if i were you i would consider picking up a book on dogs and breeders and reed up on a variety of breeds and make your descision after you do the research as to what type of dog you would like and make your choice after you have the knowledge to do so,take your time and don't rush into it,remember having a dog is like having another child.as for the ill comments in regards to pit bull type dogs,everyone should acctually read up on the breed and not the papers.they are actually a wonderful dog and do make an excellent family pet(i know this for a fact,i've been around this breed most of my life).neglegence,backyard breeding,poor socializing and inexperienced owners are the main reason for this breed's demise.any dog can be viscious,it all depends on how you,the owner bring it up
 
canbkr said:
if i were you i would consider picking up a book on dogs and breeders and reed up on a variety of breeds and make your descision after you do the research as to what type of dog you would like and make your choice after you have the knowledge to do so,take your time and don't rush into it,remember having a dog is like having another child.as for the ill comments in regards to pit bull type dogs,everyone should acctually read up on the breed and not the papers.they are actually a wonderful dog and do make an excellent family pet(i know this for a fact,i've been around this breed most of my life).neglegence,backyard breeding,poor socializing and inexperienced owners are the main reason for this breed's demise.any dog can be viscious,it all depends on how you,the owner bring it up

:eek: :eek: :eek:

My eyes is goin crazy!
 
They forgot one breed, responsible for every single attack listed above:

Incompetent Owners (100%)

That statement is so inaccurate that one can only assume that it came from a non-dog owner.

I've got another dog that is a shepherd mix. It was a stray that one day showed up, then started hanging out on our front porch, so we took it in ...it was probably 6 - 8 months old at the time. Never could locate it's owner. Excellent watchdog, but not a dog to have around kids. It's afraid of nothing. The dog is 8 yrs old now.

The other morning my wife was out walking the dogs around the neighborhood. A jogger was approaching them at one point during the walk, so my wife did what she always does, which is move the dogs off the sidewalk away from the street to give the jogger plenty of leeway to pass. What does the jogger do? He attempts to run past my wife and the dogs as close as he possibly can to them. What does the dog do? He thinks the guy is coming for my wife with foul intent, and before the wife can do anything, the dog lunges for the guys shorts. Now, fortunately the dog only got a piece of the guys cute little jogging shorts, ...but the guy acted like it was my wife's fault the dog went after him.
It's amazing some people actually make it to adulthood.
 
jiminy said:
...but the guy acted like it was my wife's fault the dog went after him.
It's amazing some people actually make it to adulthood.



That was pretty stupid on the jogger's part. Some folks are oblivious to the world around them and it's inhabitants. He made it to adulthood by blind luck, no doubt. Your dog was doing his job. "Good boy!"
 
Gigante, if you've read this far...

Many breeds make fine family dogs. What is more important than the breed is choosing a particular dog that will fit your family. This is where behavioral testing comes in. Testing is easy, fast, and very effective.

Many books discuss the testing procedure. I recommend Michele Welton's Your Purebred Puppy ($10.88 from Amazon.com). Her book discusses testing, the various attributes of all recognized purebred dogs, precautions for each breed (for example, never buy the most outgoing German Shepherd puppy in a litter if you are looking for a good family dog), how to choose a breeder, crate training a puppy, typical health problems, grooming requirements, how the breeds get along with children, etc.

One more point. Some people insist that mutts are inherently better dogs than purebreds. This simply isn't true since mutts can have as many problems, such as hip dysplasia, as purebreds. One of the real advantages of getting a purebred is that you can often get to know the sire and dam, so you have a better idea of what the puppy's health and temperment will be like. Both mutts and purebreds make fine dogs, but carefully test any dog that you are considering!

Hope this helped. Good luck, and enjoy the dog!
 
Here's my all-American mutt. He found me 9 years ago and never left. Understand the dog... the dog will understand you. :) Good luck in your search for the new family member.
 

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Yep, the best dogs are old males. And the healthiest dogs are mutts. I hope you have plenty of time left with him.

Best Wishes,
-Bob
 
For our family we went with Dobermans. We have a 5 pound black mini female and a 75 pound red male. They are the most enjoyable dogs we have ever owned. We have had Labs, boxers, terriers. The dobes came already trained pretty much. Its like the right stuff is built into them before you get them. Both of them are inside outside dogs. They also make a nice appearance when people come to the house. They wont get out of there car without us being there to escort them... even though the dobes are lap dogs.

Dobes are the most human like dogs I have ever known. They are like another person in the family.They take care of my children very well. They stick to you like Velcro. hence there nick names "Velcro" dogs.
 
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