New Cooper Cutlery knives?

[draggat]

UPDATE:.

It took 5 days, but I just received a response from an email address name going by Nick Stockhauser of Cooper Cutlery. Maybe they are completely legit and we are all just used to really good marketing?

I had asked about the Big Chief specifically, because that label was the only place on their website where "domestic and imported" was posted. It still sounds fishy to me because Case, Queen and GEC have all had exotic handle cover materials and all of those bore the USA made label.

Here is what he wrote:

"Steve, The labels all have the made in USA with foreign and domestic parts due to some of the more exotic bones we use on our traditional folding knives from overseas. That is the only reason it is on the label. We should definitely remove that from our big Chief labels in the future. 440a and they are on the softer side in the 52-54 range. We tried to mimic the original as much as possible for that vintage big Chief feel. Thanks Matt"

 

[Angry Angus]

Just something to consider. Keep in mind they are new, working with old equipment that apparently in the last years Queen was struggling with. They also bought old tooling, possibly many pieces parts. Just starting on their venture, the bibs and the fact they are all side by side was certainly staged for a photo opp to put on their site. They are only 4 guys and even larger companies don't have the resources for someone to take pictures and man a website on an ongoing basis. Something else, for those of you more educated in knife history to maybe chime in on. Blue Grass would be considered pretty local to them, did they ever make some of the same patterns or at least blades as Cooper is using. Would it be possible they're getting a little help from them as they learn and grow? Still American made, a little outsourcing going on? Just some thoughts.

 

[meako]

It would have taken 5 days to write something as badly worded as that.

 

[Angry Angus]

Just something to consider. Keep in mind they are new, working with old equipment that apparently in the last years Queen was struggling with. They also bought old tooling, possibly many pieces parts. Just starting on their venture, the bibs and the fact they are all side by side was certainly staged for a photo opp to put on their site. They are only 4 guys and even larger companies don't have the resources for someone to take pictures and man a website on an ongoing basis. Something else, for those of you more educated in knife history to maybe chime in on. Blue Grass would be considered pretty local to them, did they ever make some of the same patterns or at least blades as Cooper is using. Would it be possible they're getting a little help from them as they learn and grow? Still American made, a little outsourcing going on? Just some thoughts.

I'm fairly recent to the more "serious" knife collecting hobby and just recently learned most of the Case Classics were made by Queen. Blue Grass through the years has possibly made others' brands and models we never knew about and thought they too were produced by that company. I'm ok with that if true, if that's the case, I would like to see Cooper eventually transition over to all in house.

 

[Angry Angus]

It would have taken 5 days to write something as badly worded as that.

Lol. Had to be mine, right? I dropped out before kidergardin.

 

[screened porch]

our traditional folding knives from overseas.

It would have taken 5 days to write something as badly worded as that.

I'm just being miserable.

 

[Just Tom.]

The labels all have the made in USA with foreign and domestic parts due to some of the more exotic bones we use on our traditional folding knives from overseas.

This could be interpreted to mean that the knives themselves are from overseas. Otherwise it should have read “the more exotic bones we use on our traditional knives being sourced from overseas”.

Probably just poor writing, as Meako says, but still…

 

[Jolipapa]

You can accomplish anything when you have matching t-shirts and overalls.

There's a saying : the dress does not make the monk! Let's hope they disprove it!

 

[mbkr]

It still sounds fishy to me because Case, Queen and GEC have all had exotic handle cover materials and all of those bore the USA made label.

Sambar stag doesn't come from the USA. Neither does ebony, cocobolo, etc, etc.

 

[draggat]

Sambar stag doesn't come from the USA. Neither does ebony, cocobolo, etc, etc.

Ivory isn't used anymore, but I've never seen any elephants walking around the US either!

One thing I was thinking about..... The questions I asked of Cooper Cutlery were in regards to the Big Chief, specifically. I think it's interesting that they would keep the domestic and imported blurb on there, even more so because I didn't know aluminum is an exotic bone.

I have to say, the only reason I'm pointing any of this out is because they made a huge deal about being USA made on their website.

All kidding aside, I would love to see another traditional knife manufacturer in the US. I hope they can overcome their obstacles.

 

[Dadpool]

Using a qualified Made in the USA label solely because the covers came from another country seems like it has a high likelihood of being a misapprehension on Cooper's part.

If those covers arrived cut, shaped, buffed, and essentially ready to fit to the knife (which seems unlikely), then the qualified claim is accurate. If the covers arrived as pieces of raw material, and were then cut, fitted, and buffed in Cooper's shop, substantially transforming the original materials in the USA, a qualified claim isn't needed.

I have a Hinderer in my knife drawer with an M390 blade. M390 is made in Austria, but Hinderer cut, ground, heat-treated, stonewashed, and sharpened that Austrian steel in the US, so no qualified claim is needed. That Hinderer in Made in the USA, despite its Austrian blade steel.

Given that Cooper's explanation seemingly has nothing to do with the Big Chief, a knife with aluminum handles that nonetheless sports a qualified Made in the USA claim, it's hard to say what's going on over there. It kinda seems like they don't really know what they're doing.

 

[draggat]

It kinda seems like they don't really know what they're doing.

I get that impression as well. That is not good for a company if they want to be successful.

 

[Headwinds]

One thing I was thinking about..... The questions I asked of Cooper Cutlery were in regards to the Big Chief, specifically. I think it's interesting that they would keep the domestic and imported blurb on there, even more so because I didn't know aluminum is an exotic bone.

Standard notice on the back of the box my Case small swell center jack came in two months ago. Has synthetic handles, no less. I assume it's just simpler to use the same notice on all their boxes.

 

[Pàdruig]

I would seriously doubt that. From my experience, when they make a knife from scratch, they just copy something from somewhere and then a mix (or mess) comes out. They simply don't have no interest in careful recreating of someone's classic.

The point I was trying to make, albeit poorly, is that Cooper Cutlery seems to be copying some of the Shouse & Hardin Battle Axe designs that were made by Olbertz in the '70s and '80s.

It seems suspicious to me (amongst all the other obvious weirdness) that they are making patterns that were notably manufactured in a German factory, yet the equipment that Cooper Cutlery is making knives on is the old Queen machinery. Like Eric said, maybe they acquired all the templates and tooling to make Olbertz stuff but it feels unlikely.

 

[Dadpool]

Standard notice on the back of the box my Case small swell center jack came in two months ago. Has synthetic handles, no less. I assume it's just simpler to use the same notice on all their boxes.

Interesting! I suspect I just don't fully understand the FTC's regulations on this topic. Good thing jm not running a knife company!

 

[Alex.Y.]

The point I was trying to make, albeit poorly, is that Cooper Cutlery seems to be copying some of the Shouse & Hardin Battle Axe designs that were made by Olbertz in the '70s and '80s.

It seems suspicious to me (amongst all the other obvious weirdness) that they are making patterns that were notably manufactured in a German factory, yet the equipment that Cooper Cutlery is making knives on is the old Queen machinery. Like Eric said, maybe they acquired all the templates and tooling to make Olbertz stuff but it feels unlikely.

Oh, sorry, I thought you were talking about chinese copying a classic pattern. My reply was about chinese fakers.

 

[mbkr]

Using a qualified Made in the USA label solely because the covers came from another country seems like it has a high likelihood of being a misapprehension on Cooper's part.

If those covers arrived cut, shaped, buffed, and essentially ready to fit to the knife (which seems unlikely), then the qualified claim is accurate. If the covers arrived as pieces of raw material, and were then cut, fitted, and buffed in Cooper's shop, substantially transforming the original materials in the USA, a qualified claim isn't needed.

I have a Hinderer in my knife drawer with an M390 blade. M390 is made in Austria, but Hinderer cut, ground, heat-treated, stonewashed, and sharpened that Austrian steel in the US, so no qualified claim is needed. That Hinderer in Made in the USA, despite its Austrian blade steel.

Given that Cooper's explanation seemingly has nothing to do with the Big Chief, a knife with aluminum handles that nonetheless sports a qualified Made in the USA claim, it's hard to say what's going on over there. It kinda seems like they don't really know what they're doing.

Standard notice on the back of the box my Case small swell center jack came in two months ago. Has synthetic handles, no less. I assume it's just simpler to use the same notice on all their boxes.

That's what I was thinking. New to manufacturing. Ten million (just a guestimate) laws and rules governing manufacturing. Better safe than sorry. Fighting with the US government is a fast way to bankruptcy.

 

[meako]

Lol. Had to be mine, right? I dropped out before kidergardin.

No Sir...I was referring to the reply from Nick Stockhauser...signed Matt....cheers.

This could be interpreted to mean that the knives themselves are from overseas. Otherwise it should have read “the more exotic bones we use on our traditional knives are sourced from overseas”.

Probably just poor writing, as Meako says, but still…

Yep it is hastily composed and not instilling confidence in me.

 

[brownshoe]

This photo is so obviously staged, it bothers me. Reminds me of the complete opposite of a Spanish traditional knife maker who has a series of videos showing him making a knife in coveralls that are nearly rags.

I can't help but cry foul of their over the top 'Made in USA' when it's coupled with all of the other red flags

We take marketing pictures at work. Of course they are staged and people wear their good jeans. That's just how commercial photographers work and how my coworkers want to look.

 

[Arathol]

UPDATE:.

It took 5 days, but I just received a response from an email address name going by Nick Stockhauser of Cooper Cutlery. Maybe they are completely legit and we are all just used to really good marketing?

I had asked about the Big Chief specifically, because that label was the only place on their website where "domestic and imported" was posted. It still sounds fishy to me because Case, Queen and GEC have all had exotic handle cover materials and all of those bore the USA made label.

Here is what he wrote:

"Steve, The labels all have the made in USA with foreign and domestic parts due to some of the more exotic bones we use on our traditional folding knives from overseas. That is the only reason it is on the label. We should definitely remove that from our big Chief labels in the future. 440a and they are on the softer side in the 52-54 range. We tried to mimic the original as much as possible for that vintage big Chief feel. Thanks Matt"

So, here is something interesting.......Nick Stockhauser is a digital advertising agent from Cincinnati Ohio, not far from Winchester. Is it a coincidence that his second language is Chinese? Same guy?
Matt is Gilbert Coopers son. I wonder why his name is at the bottom of a communication from the companys advertising guy?