New CPM Grade

nsm

nsm

Niagara Specialty Metals
Dealer / Materials Provider
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
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185
Niagara Specialty Metals is proud to introduce a new CPM grade from Crucible Industries. CPM S45VN is the latest evolution in a line of steels designed specifically for the cutlery industry. We were asked to produce a grade with more corrosion resistance without sacrificing the wear resistance and toughness of S30V or S35-VN. Preliminary reports indicate we accomplished that goal with the added benefit that it takes a nice edge and is easy to machine.

The S45VN chemistry was proposed by Niagara Specialty Metal’s Western Sales Manager and Knife Steel Specialist, Frank Cox. Final refinement of the chemistry and mill production methods were developed by Bob Skibitski of Crucible Industries. The chemistry is nominally 1.48% C, 16% Cr, 3% V, 2% Mo, .5% Nb and .15% N.

There is stock available at Niagara Specialty Metals in most of the common sizes. Pricing will be posted at nsm-ny.com next week or you can call 1-800-424-0048 for pricing now. Distributors will stock it if the demand for it is there.

Thanks for your support,

Bob
 
For those wondering(i did myself), it has 0.08% more C, 2% more Cr and 0.15% more N compared to S35VN. Im guessing the addition of some nitrogen is gonna allow for more Cr and Mo in solutions hence better corrosion resistance?
 
Im wondering about the economy aspect of this steel. Will this be similarly priced as S30V/S35VN or will this be significantly more expensive to produce/procure. If it’s similar to S35VN the market will probably shift over to it in the next few years like how proliferated the S35VN is right now. If it’s more expensive, perhaps it makes more sense to just jump to 20CV/M390?

Larrin Larrin based on your data M390/20CV seems to be better at all 3 aspect - wear resistant, toughness & corrosion resistance. But you also mention that there’s a possibility that 20CV may not be as tough in reality due to the RA in your test sample?

Basically I'm wondering if it even makes sense to produce S45VN if it's as expensive as 20CV/M390, if so, what is the potential advantage over 20CV? Or if it's gonna be a replacement for S30V/S35VN at a lower price range?
 
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insta9ves said:
Im wondering about the economy aspect of this steel. Will this be similarly priced as S30V/S35VN or will this be significantly more expensive to produce/procure. If it’s similar to S35VN the market will probably shift over to it in the next few years like how proliferated the S35VN is right now. If it’s more expensive, perhaps it makes more sense to just jump to 20CV/M390?

Larrin Larrin based on your data M390/20CV seems to be better at all 3 aspect - wear resistant, toughness & corrosion resistance. But you also mention that there’s a possibility that 20CV may not be as tough in reality due to the RA in your test sample?

Basically I'm wondering if it even makes sense to produce S45VN if it's as expensive as 20CV/M390, if so, what is the potential advantage over 20CV? Or if it's gonna be a replacement for S30V/S35VN at a lower price range?
Click to expand...
The reason that the somewhat better toughness result for 20CV and M390 is puzzling is because of the significantly coarser carbide structure. The finer structure of S45VN would be expected to lead to better ease in machining and sharpening and better resistance to chipping when compared with 20CV. So it could be that another effect (like RA) is what led to a good toughness result in 20CV and would not necessarily show up in the end knife, or would not translate to thin edges.
 
Really disappointed to see the results in Crucible datasheets and in the knifesteelnerds article (thanks a lot Larrin for this very complete article!).

I understand the fact that metallurgy is not computer technology and we cannot expect dramatic improvement of performances every year like in CPU generations.
But S30V was released in 2001 and S35VN was released in 2009 so with this brand new S45VN we should have 10 years of improvement in steel technology and manufacturing.
And what is the result of these 10 years?

S45VN : lower toughness than S35VN and lower wear resistance than S30V. And all of this just for a small increase in corrosion resistance that nobody asked for!

M390/20CV at 61.5 RC is a much better steel.
Better wear resistance (180% vs 143%)
Better corrosion resistance (9.1 vs 8.6)
Equal if not better toughness (according to Larrin's tests).

10 years for nothing...
 
patrickguignot said:
Really disappointed to see the results in Crucible datasheets and in the knifesteelnerds article (thanks a lot Larrin for this very complete article!).

I understand the fact that metallurgy is not computer technology and we cannot expect dramatic improvement of performances every year like in CPU generations.
But S30V was released in 2001 and S35VN was released in 2009 so with this brand new S45VN we should have 10 years of improvement in steel technology and manufacturing.
And what is the result of these 10 years?

S45VN : lower toughness than S35VN and lower wear resistance than S30V. And all of this just for a small increase in corrosion resistance that nobody asked for!

M390/20CV at 61.5 RC is a much better steel.
Better wear resistance (180% vs 143%)
Better corrosion resistance (9.1 vs 8.6)
Equal if not better toughness (according to Larrin's tests).

10 years for nothing...
Click to expand...
You're upset with the laws of chemistry and physics? Also of course there are better steels. Not every steel improvement is meant to take it to the top of the pile. It is the next generation of the sXXv steel family, nothing more. M390 is more expensive than s35vn. It's like being mad the newest Miata is not as fast as a Corvette.
 
kniferbro said:
You're upset with the laws of chemistry and physics?
Click to expand...

Do you think we are at the limits of these laws and no improvement can be done in steel perfs?

kniferbro said:
M390 is more expensive than s35vn
Click to expand...

Yes. Slightly.

kniferbro said:
It's like being mad the newest Miata is not as fast as a Corvette.
Click to expand...

IMHO this comparison is not accurate.
The perf gap between 20CV and S35VN is significant but the price gap is small.
If I go to a steel supplier we can see the price difference:
CPM-S35VN Surface Ground Bar Stock HRA .156"x 4" => $95.58
CPM 20CV Surface Ground Bar Stock HRA .156" x 4" => $97.52
 
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