New CPM Steel: Magnamax?

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VorpelSword said:
I see the green rectangle on the lower left. As I read the chart,. 440 steels are not that impressive anymore in comparison to other commonly used knife steels.

With so many other good-enough to great performing formulations now on the stainless chart,, who still uses 440 steels today?
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For making knives or using 440c blades for regular use?
I use a lot of 440c , CPM D2 , M2 knives which is considered rather fuddish now! But it’s some good knife steels still
 
S-3 ranch said:
For making knives or using 440c blades for regular use?
I use a lot of 440c , CPM D2 , M2 knives which is considered rather fuddish now! But it’s some good knife steels still
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I understand that, and I agree. In the 1980s CPM 154 was THE trendy steel for custom knife maskers. It is just as good today as it ws in 1984 or so, but today is out performed by other, newer formulations.

In the automotive world there are similar relationships between the "old" and "new". In the early years, Ford's Model-T was ubiquitous despite the presence of cars with Nore comfortable interiors and more sophisticated mechanicals. The Model-T today can be had either as an historic artifact or as a newly manufactured near-copy. It does the same work-a-day job on the road as was the casse in 1915 ot '20: crank starting, hand throttle and 30-ish mph top speed.

A similar sort of analogy can be made for the Chevy Corvett. From the introduction of the C-2 Stingray in the 1960s through the next five model types ending in the C-7 (don't recall the nomenclature) in the 2000s. each one was an upper-end Americans sports car at a real world price that could arguably compete in international racing. The current model (C-8) is now so sophisticated and expensive that only Jay Leno and other folks of a similar lifestyle scan reasonably want to own one . . .but they know compete with Fearries and other million-dollar super cars at retail, and o the track. But the 1960s "split window" Stingy will still do today what it could in 1965.

Similar analogies can be made for computers, their operating software and even video games. As with csars, there may be active aficionados for older e-stuff, but no one uses them for contemporary day-to-day computing.

Why make a knife from a steel that was, 80 years ago, considered to be the top end performer in 1945, when so many better performing options are available today? In my mind, this particularly applies to any high-end., premium knife maker. Why would Chevy continue to make the 1958 Corvett or any of the later iterations?

After this post, I am going to drop the topic, I think. My thanks to all for sharing their thoughts on this thread.
 
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VorpelSword said:
I understand that, and I agree. In the 1980s CPM 154 was THE trendy steel for custom knife maskers. It is just as good today as it ws in 1984 or so, but today is out performed by other, newer formulations.

In the automotive world there are similar relationships between the "old" and "new". In the early years, Ford's Model-T was ubiquitous despite the presence of cars with Nore comfortable interiors and more sophisticated mechanicals. The Model-T today can be had either as an historic artifact or as a newly manufactured near-copy. It does the same work-a-day job on the road as was the casse in 1915 ot '20: crank starting, hand throttle and 30-ish mph top speed.

A similar sort of analogy can be made for the Chevy Corvett. From the introduction of the C-2 Stingray in the 1960s through the next five model types ending in the C-7 (don't recall the nomenclature) in the 2000s. each one was an upper-end Americans sports car at a real world price that could arguably compete in international racing. The current model (C-8) is now so sophisticated and expensive that only Jay Leno and other folks of a similar lifestyle scan reasonably want to own one . . .but they know compete with Fearries and other million-dollar super cars at retail, and o the track. But the 1960s "split window" Stingy will still do today what it could in 1965.

Similar analogies can be made for computers, their operating software and even video games. As with csars, there may be active aficionados for older e-stuff, but no one uses them for contemporary day-to-day computing.

Why make a knife from a steel that was, 80 years ago, considered to be the top end performer in 1945, when so many better performing options are available today? In my mind, this particularly applies to any high-end., premium knife maker. Why would Chevy continue to make the 1958 Corvett or any of the later iterations?

After this post, I am going to drop the topic, I think. My thanks to all for sharing their thoughts on this thread.
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Knives are different from cars and computers. Also, a lot of people in the past used their knives harder than today's average user. Except for maybe batoning and similar stuff.

Anyways it comes down to steel having properties it takes to stay in production and relevant.

Examples:
D2 - edge retention and wear resistance that can be compared to S30V, S35VN... and so on - and cheap.
1095 - fairly tough and easy to sharpen and so on - and cheap.
420HC - tough, easy to get sharp and stainless - and cheap

And so on... 440C is not that cheap. Especially if you buy N690 and similar variants.

AUS8 and AUS10 have different composition from 440C.

From price to performance - 440C has nothing special to offer today. Sure - you can get by with it, but it'd be a waste of money performance wise.
 
EatingSarma said:
Also, a lot of people in the past used their knives harder than today's average user.
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This is a pretty general statement repeated pretty often. What is the "average user" today? Do you think so many people in the past all used their knives really hard in comparison to now? Everyone in the job-sites and kitchens I have worked on/in use their tools/knives pretty hard. Not sure what you think has changed.

EatingSarma said:
Anyways it comes down to steel having properties it takes to stay in production and relevant.
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As you mentioned cost specifically and popularity are probably the biggest factors. Otherwise we wouldnt see 75% of the steels used commonly. (looking at you 1095)
 
Crag the Brewer said:
I doubt you will get the new steels ever in $150 knives, idk?

This last year I bought the steel for ONE of my field knives. Someone wanted mine, but in M4 steel.... It's good steel. Just the blank piece of steel, for 1 knife cost me almost $100.
Yikes, Crazy!

I'll be happy if the new stuff is Just available
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That's more about economy of scale than a reflection of the true cost of the end product due to materials.
 
Knife manufacturers* are not your friend. Once they get you paying higher prices, they will keep charging them. Because the new steel will be the next hot thing, they can and will charge even more for that new steel. And on and on. The only friend the consumer has is themselves.

*Edited to add that applies to the manufacturers, not independent makers.
 
Dagoth_Blur said:
Not sure what you think has changed.
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Go to Instagram or Facebook and join EDC groups... hundreds of photos of pristine CRK's and Benchmades, and they all claim they carry those.

From packaging to life in general, things were different in the past. People used stuff like 1095 or noname carbon steel or 420HC or unknown stainless.

So, yeah, people are spoiled these days.
 
EatingSarma said:
Go to Instagram or Facebook and join EDC groups... hundreds of photos of pristine CRK's and Benchmades, and they all claim they carry those.

From packaging to life in general, things were different in the past. People used stuff like 1095 or noname carbon steel or 420HC or unknown stainless.

So, yeah, people are spoiled these days.
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So because you see lots of people on social media with nice unused knives that defacto makes your point true? You realize people in the past just didnt have an instagram to post on...but Im sure they would have. Human nature doesnt change over night it takes generations.
 
While its not a folder, our son caried a CRK belt knife literally every day while deployed to Iraq in 2004-'05. It was with him for the Battle of Fallujah and other actions. He wore it either on a drop-leg thigh rig with his pistol or strapped to his plat carrier. . . .often his unit was on patrol outside the wire for several weeks at s time. He had his choice of a Randall Mador the CRK and took the Reeve knife when he deployed again.

That is a real-world EDC, not an Instagram or Facebook showpiece.

It is telling to note that while he has been out for many years now, his current EDC is still a CRK; a Large Sebenza 31.
 
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