Without bothering to explain just what "proper training" actually amounts to, or what's involved with such.
New professional. 32 mag revolver
- Thread starter jill jackson
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Without bothering to explain just what "proper training" actually amounts to, or what's involved with such.
Correct.
Seek an qualified and certified instructor.
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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indeed
Neat toy, but stainless steel S&W model 60 in .357 is far better for the intended use.
Black nitride is far from indestructible, and .32 mag isn't the best round for manstopping.
With a .357, you can shoot everything from mild .38 specials if recoil is an issue up to hot .357 magnums, and everything in between in the same gun.
Stock grips on the model 60 are cushy rubber and easy to control, while absorbing recoil.
I keep mine loaded with .38+p for the home due to sound and penetration, and I carry hot .357 loads when outdoors.
Black nitride is far from indestructible, and .32 mag isn't the best round for manstopping.
With a .357, you can shoot everything from mild .38 specials if recoil is an issue up to hot .357 magnums, and everything in between in the same gun.
Stock grips on the model 60 are cushy rubber and easy to control, while absorbing recoil.
I keep mine loaded with .38+p for the home due to sound and penetration, and I carry hot .357 loads when outdoors.
Fortunately for me, I recognize that I'm an idiot, and am constantly questioning my actions and positions.
Do you even read the nonsense you write before you post it?
Yup, sure do. How many .380 cartridges have you ever shot from a PPK or PPK/S?
I'm suspecting not.
Well since the Bersa Thunder is similar to a PPK/S platform in terms of size and design... I've shot enough to know it sucks to me. The recoil of a Glock 26 is less punishing than that thing. Good riddance to it.
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Sometimes it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubts
Anyone who claims a Walter PPk has more recoil than a 357 magnum simply can't be taken seriously.
I don't have a PPk, never had a PPk, and most likely never will.
But I do have a Ruger LCPII. It's half the weight of a stainless steel PPk or PPks. I would describe it as 'snappy' in recoil, but still very manageable. I did have an air weight S&W 637 until I got rid of it at the last gun show. With the Plus P loads it was supposedly rated for, it kicked like a mule. With wadcutters it was manageable. It recoiled way more than my little polymer framed LCPII that was even lighter and flatter in the pocket.
Sure, a K framed S&W in .357 will not be that bad. My S&W 66 is very nice shooting, but it's like 37 ounces weight. [Edit to add; thats with a 4 inch barrel.] Put that same Round in a J frame gun of 20 ounces or less and see what happens. As far as full time carry, not many people are going to lug around a 4 inch barrel K frame. Yeah, I know, the "I carry a .500 S&W in my cargo shorts" people are around, but I'm taking real people who carry all the time. Not the teenager down his mothers basement, hot pocket in hand, spewing fantasy on the keyboard.
But everything aside, whats the foot pounds of recoil of the compact .357 vs the foot pounds of recoil of a Walther PPK? Or, how about the decibel rating of a snub .357 vs a .380 Walther?
Go find a .357 that weights the same as a PPK and try to teach the Joe Average off the street to shoot it.
But I do have a Ruger LCPII. It's half the weight of a stainless steel PPk or PPks. I would describe it as 'snappy' in recoil, but still very manageable. I did have an air weight S&W 637 until I got rid of it at the last gun show. With the Plus P loads it was supposedly rated for, it kicked like a mule. With wadcutters it was manageable. It recoiled way more than my little polymer framed LCPII that was even lighter and flatter in the pocket.
Sure, a K framed S&W in .357 will not be that bad. My S&W 66 is very nice shooting, but it's like 37 ounces weight. [Edit to add; thats with a 4 inch barrel.] Put that same Round in a J frame gun of 20 ounces or less and see what happens. As far as full time carry, not many people are going to lug around a 4 inch barrel K frame. Yeah, I know, the "I carry a .500 S&W in my cargo shorts" people are around, but I'm taking real people who carry all the time. Not the teenager down his mothers basement, hot pocket in hand, spewing fantasy on the keyboard.
But everything aside, whats the foot pounds of recoil of the compact .357 vs the foot pounds of recoil of a Walther PPK? Or, how about the decibel rating of a snub .357 vs a .380 Walther?
Go find a .357 that weights the same as a PPK and try to teach the Joe Average off the street to shoot it.
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Where did I say that.? I said the PPK in .380 has the worst perceived recoil of any hand gun I've owned (and I've shot thousands of cartridges from a .380 Walther PPKS and a S&W .357 Mag 4" M13 --- how many .370 cartridges have you shot from a PPK/PPKS?). Perceived recoil has much to do with firearm design and not just the cartridge it chambers.
Thousands of .380 cartridges? Just how rich do you expect us to believe you are?
Lol..
1000 rounds of .380 target ammo cost less than $400.
Less of you use cheaper ammo or wait for a sale.
I currently have an original LCP 380 (even smaller than an LCP II) and regularly shoot a S&W model 60 .357 3 inch (stainless jframe).
The .380 recoil isn't even close to the 60, even with hot loads.
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I mean...if its just "about training", S&W makes a .44 Airweight, why settle for .357?
I do agree to some point that you can 'recoil with the gun' so to speak with some shooting, but that doesn't mitigate enough recoil for most people that are recoil sensitive/adverse, have chronic pain, or arthritis, or maybe just not a lot of strength in general. I'm also not a believer in carrying the biggest stick you can to be most effective, but the biggest stick you can handle and be proficient with. Training can help with part of that, but not all of it if any of the few examples I gave above, or several other potential factors, affect you.
I'm a believer in "the first shot is important", but also being able to get back on target for follow up shots WILL often be necessary in most cases, so yes recoil IS a factor in that as well.
Ive shot some .38 +P loaded pretty hot in a Jframe airweight and it wasn't comfortable at all. Ive shot much heavier calibers that weren't as bad on recoil. I don't like shooting those .38 hot loads but I did often enough to know I was proficient, but generally shot much lighter loads for practice and technique. Guess what I carried? An intermittent load with outstanding performance and moderate recoil that I could control better.
My daily carry is a 9mm, it does everything I expect it to and I can put multiple rounds on target very fast, and I trust the load emphatically. I have and carry .45 ACP when it suits me as well, but not even close to as much. And I wouldn't push anyone to carry .45 just because I think its an amazing caliber, or even 9mm if they cant handle it. And by god you can throw stones at me if you want, but if all you can handle is a .22 LR and you've tried "something more", then I'll back you and won't laugh at you for it. Carry whatever you can carry....just CARRY something!
There are so many factors really it becomes difficult to address them all when figuring out what works for everyone. I think everyone should try shooting different calibers as well as "delivery systems"
to see what works best for them.
I do agree to some point that you can 'recoil with the gun' so to speak with some shooting, but that doesn't mitigate enough recoil for most people that are recoil sensitive/adverse, have chronic pain, or arthritis, or maybe just not a lot of strength in general. I'm also not a believer in carrying the biggest stick you can to be most effective, but the biggest stick you can handle and be proficient with. Training can help with part of that, but not all of it if any of the few examples I gave above, or several other potential factors, affect you.
I'm a believer in "the first shot is important", but also being able to get back on target for follow up shots WILL often be necessary in most cases, so yes recoil IS a factor in that as well.
Ive shot some .38 +P loaded pretty hot in a Jframe airweight and it wasn't comfortable at all. Ive shot much heavier calibers that weren't as bad on recoil. I don't like shooting those .38 hot loads but I did often enough to know I was proficient, but generally shot much lighter loads for practice and technique. Guess what I carried? An intermittent load with outstanding performance and moderate recoil that I could control better.
My daily carry is a 9mm, it does everything I expect it to and I can put multiple rounds on target very fast, and I trust the load emphatically. I have and carry .45 ACP when it suits me as well, but not even close to as much. And I wouldn't push anyone to carry .45 just because I think its an amazing caliber, or even 9mm if they cant handle it. And by god you can throw stones at me if you want, but if all you can handle is a .22 LR and you've tried "something more", then I'll back you and won't laugh at you for it. Carry whatever you can carry....just CARRY something!
There are so many factors really it becomes difficult to address them all when figuring out what works for everyone. I think everyone should try shooting different calibers as well as "delivery systems"
to see what works best for them.To be fair you didn't categorically state that. What you wrote was this " I said the PPK in .380 has the worst perceived recoil of any hand gun I've owned (and I've shot thousands of cartridges from a .380 Walther PPKS and a S&W .357 Mag 4" M13". You seem to really enjoy using the term "perceived recoil" which is, at best is a meaningless term, recoil is a measurable force, what someone perceives recoil to be is just that, a perception, not a real or measurable force.
If you'd stick with opinions like " I dislike shooting a Walther PpK in the .380 caliber because the amount of recoil as transmitted thru the physical design and weight of the firearm is uncomfortable to me" and quit using terms like "perceived recoil" to try and describe something that can actually be measured and needn't be perceived at all then you wouldn't get so much negative attention paid to your more nonsensical posts.
By the way, even the NRA calls "perceived recoil " a phenomenon. Which means; in simple terms, something that doesn't actually exist.
Your argument; such as it is, falls apart when someone with no perception of the amount of actual recoil a particular firearm has fires it without issue. Negative perception and by extension your favorite false expression "perceived recoil" only works if the subject has some grounds to have the perception in the first place.
Your assumption that your personal experience trumps the laws of physics that determine exactly how much measurable recoil every firearm exhibits is just that, an assumption and in the examples you keep mentioning it's an assumption based on nonsense.
